4th Tubocharger on its way out

[TCDiesel]

JCarlisle, Are you able to engage the brake at Idle for 5 to 10 minutes at running temps? if so check the breather tube for a cloud like color (Gray) and it will also have a unique odor.

 

[AH64ID]

This will be turbo number 5 and the truck has 60k miles on it

That just seems like you shut the truck down with a hot turbo alot. . It may not be the case, but you have to realize that this is a very reliable turbo. . 5 in 60K miles is very very odd.

 

[thomasrmmr]

try bringing it to a cummins repair shop and talk to them !!!

 

[HBarlow]

Something is terribly wrong with your truck, the environment it is used in, or the way it is driven. I've put over 500,000 miles on three Dodge-Cummins with extended 10,000 mile oil and filter service and have never had a turbo go bad. One of our TDR members, a friend of mine and RV transporter, is approaching 700,000 miles on one '95 Cummins-powered Ram 3500 and still has his original turbo.

It is extremely rare to hear of a Cummins owner with a bad turbo.

 

[JCarlisle]

I never shut the truck down unless the EGT is below 350 degrees. It is operated on the pavement in Arizona. The only thing severe about its operating environment is the desert heat in AZ. The Air Filter is never dirty and the only mods to the truck are the two exhaust brakes, a muffler eliminator kit from Geno's and and AFE stock Filter Replacement. Through Pac Brake I know of 2 other trucks in the US that are having the same problem.

 

[DCreed]

... just a thought, see if the dealer will install a turbo from an '07. should be a holset 4. The failures seem to be mostly on '05 trucks so perhaps like the VPs in the 2nd gen they have quietly replaced the smoked ones and admit nothing as to what/why. but I do know there are 4 models of HE351CW from '04. 5-'07 so maybe they have been changed slightly and upgraded through the years? If they run your VIN and keep putting in the same version I suspect you will continue to have the same issue.

 

[AH64ID]

I never shut the truck down unless the EGT is below 350 degrees. It is operated on the pavement in Arizona. The only thing severe about its operating environment is the desert heat in AZ. The Air Filter is never dirty and the only mods to the truck are the two exhaust brakes, a muffler eliminator kit from Geno's and and AFE stock Filter Replacement. Through Pac Brake I know of 2 other trucks in the US that are having the same problem.

I never shut down unless I am below 300*, usually 250*. You may try going colder... I have always heard 300* for our turbos.

 

[CDonaldson]

I also wait until 300*s to shut down, have a PacBrake, no turbo problems thus far in 42K miles.



I drive in the desert heat towing heavy loads of 18-22K up and down steep grades, have had no problems whatsoever.



Are you running the latest software for your truck? Maybe you need a flash? One of my neighbors had a problem with his turbo on his 2004. 5, PacBrake equipped, 6-speed, dealer changed it under warranty AND also flashed for all the latest software - they told him that more than likely the problem with the turbo had to do with his software asw they had seen it a few times before in other trucks. They did not care that he had an aftermarket brake vrs the factory approoved, both brakes did the same thing, so no problem. He has also used the Valvoline 15w40 factory recommended oil from day one, not gone to any other brand.







CD

 

[Grizzly]

I never shut the truck down unless the EGT is below 350 degrees. It is operated on the pavement in Arizona. The only thing severe about its operating environment is the desert heat in AZ. The Air Filter is never dirty and the only mods to the truck are the two exhaust brakes, a muffler eliminator kit from Geno's and and AFE stock Filter Replacement. Through Pac Brake I know of 2 other trucks in the US that are having the same problem.

I suggest you email or PM Jim jelag of Pacific Clutch and Brake in Spokane. He probably knows more about PacBrake than anyone.



Pacific Clutch and Brake

 

[JCarlisle]

I had a long talk with the Service Manager and he is going to call area Rep and discuss the problem with him.

No real answers at this time but he is still trying to help.

 

[JCarlisle]

Truck has been at dodge 2 days, they are pulling injectors, checking oil flow and pressure. They have also checked the crankcase vent tube and blowby. They are moving my EGT probe to a post Turbo Location because They want a post Turbo reading and are saying that specs call for 1100 degrees post Turbo as a max Temp.

 

[Diesel Thunder]

Wow, you have an amazing dealer. Most of the one's I've dealt with would not have tried to troubleshoot the situation like yours has. I'm surprised they kept replacing after 2 turbos. Many would have already black listed your truck!

Just a testament that there are a couple of good ones left.

Which dealer are you dealing with? If I'm ever in the area and need something, I will deal with them.

 

[HBarlow]

When I was a young Navy electronics technician working on complex electronic systems we called the type of troubleshooting your dealer's service department is doing "Easter egg hunting. "

Our meaning of that term was random replacement of parts with no clear understanding of the problem and no clear plan for finding it.

I guess they deserve credit for trying but unless they accidentally stumble upon a problem I would not expect much success.

 

[AH64ID]

Truck has been at dodge 2 days, they are pulling injectors, checking oil flow and pressure. They have also checked the crankcase vent tube and blowby. They are moving my EGT probe to a post Turbo Location because They want a post Turbo reading and are saying that specs call for 1100 degrees post Turbo as a max Temp.

Thats great they are working with you...



Cummins recommends post-turbo pyro only because of the . 0001% chance of a pyro probe failure. . If you tow you don't want post-turbo, its not as accurate.



1450* continuous is the pre-turbo rating that Cummins has stated. . which does correspond with 1100* post... but I would stick pre-turbo if at all possible... (like after the dealership is done trouble shooting).

 

[Pacbrake]

Gentlemen, Bill from Pacbrake here, Harold has left Pacbrake as of May 12 2009. I'm sorry to be so late in providing what I believe is a key piece of information regarding these turbo failures. We know of 4 trucks experiencing this exact issue, the common thread is ALL are manual transmission equipped vehicles. I drive a 2004 1/2 with an AUTO trans which I ran a brake off one of these trucks experiencing this issue, it never exceeded 60PSI backpressure. I have 132,000Kms the original turbo with no problems, we even pulled the intercooler boots looking for any signs of oil, none found.

Mr Carlisle proved the issue is caused by something other then the brand of the exhaust brake.

Anyone have a theory on why the noted failures are all manual transmisison vehicles?

 

[JCarlisle]

Wow, you have an amazing dealer. Most of the one's I've dealt with would not have tried to troubleshoot the situation like yours has. I'm surprised they kept replacing after 2 turbos. Many would have already black listed your truck!



Just a testament that there are a couple of good ones left.



Which dealer are you dealing with? If I'm ever in the area and need something, I will deal with them.

Barney Lewis is the Service manager at Tucson Dodge in Tucson Arizona and Mark Robbins is my service writer

 

[JCarlisle]

I picked up the Truck Today and The Service Manager has done a Flow Test on the oil leaving the Turbo and it was good They also pulled injectors and checked them, The injectors were good also. We will be going for a Test Drive Monday with a loaded Trailer so he can verify the EGT post Turbo Temps are within Specs.

 

[JCarlisle]

Gentlemen, Bill from Pacbrake here, Harold has left Pacbrake as of May 12 2009. I'm sorry to be so late in providing what I believe is a key piece of information regarding these turbo failures. We know of 4 trucks experiencing this exact issue, the common thread is ALL are manual transmission equipped vehicles. I drive a 2004 1/2 with an AUTO trans which I ran a brake off one of these trucks experiencing this issue, it never exceeded 60PSI backpressure. I have 132,000Kms the original turbo with no problems, we even pulled the intercooler boots looking for any signs of oil, none found.

Mr Carlisle proved the issue is caused by something other then the brand of the exhaust brake.

Anyone have a theory on why the noted failures are all manual transmisison vehicles?

I just wish Dodge would realize that the Brake doesn't matter but My Service Manager told me I couldn't put my Pac Brake Back on. I am unimpressed with the Jake

If something doesn't change soon I will be buying a new Truck and it won't be a Dodge I am getting tired of being without a Truck

 

[HBarlow]

There is simply no way that a PacBrake can provide stronger exhaust retarding than a Jacobs EB unless it is somehow creating higher back pressure. There is no rocket science or mystery involved in an exhaust brake. An exhaust brake plugs the exhaust outlet creating back pressure.

If your impression is correct, that your Jacobs EB doesn't provide the same exhaust retarding performance that your previous PacBrake did, that could only mean that a standard Jacobs Brake allows more exhaust to pass and creates less back pressure.

Does anyone know how much back pressure a Jacobs brake creates? I keep seeing the 60 psi spec reported for a PacBrake. I would want to compare the two.

Your dealer blames the PacBrake but based on what? Has the service manager determined what back pressure is created by the Jacobs EB when it's activated at say 2900 rpm?

Every newbie TDR member knows that the delta temp between a pyro probe installed in the exhaust manifold and a probe installed post turbo is approximately 300*. Your dealer service manager doesn't appear very knowledgeable on Cummins engines.

 

[TRoss]

Just to add in my $. 02, here is a picture of the brake in question explaining why the JCarlisle experienced better braking power with the pacbrake.



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It is supposed to maintain backpressure even at lower rpm. This could also relate to the difference between manual and automatic trucks, if manual drivers choose to spend more time cruising at a particular rpm with the brake on than a normal automatic transmission would make possible. Just a thought, not an overly informed one, but a thought nonetheless.