5 speed Hard to Shift

[dieselburner]

My truck has just started getting hard to shift in all gears. I tried pumping the clutch thinking that it might be a hydraulic problem but it doesn't get any better. I changed out the oil about 35K miles ago with the stock syntorq. I just ordered a new gallon of syntorq oil yesterday and will try that. The only other thing that I can think of is a pilot bearing problem. When I replaced my clutch about 35K miles ago I also replaced the pilot bearing. Anyone have any thoughts?

------------------
1998 2500 Quad Cab, 12V, 5spd, 4x4, HD Transfer Case, 370HP Diamond B Injectors, #4 TST, 16cm2 Housing, AFC Spring Kit, BD Governor Spring Kit and other governor modifications, Walker Muffler, 285/75-16 BFG AT's, Stainless Steel Tube Steps, Reese Fifth Wheel Hitch, Leather, CD, LSD Dana 80 Rear, 60 Front, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Rancho Steering Stabilizer, ATS Exhaust Manifold, Psychotty Air Induction, BD Exhaust Brake, Enterprise Engine Delivery Valves

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Diesel, I wonder if the Center Force is starting to act up to all that torque.

What specifically would be acting up. I'm not sure.

 

[South Bend Clutch]

Diesel, Hemi has a good point, Center Force uses the original design disc which has a tendency to through springs, this can cause release problems. Also, if the original pilot brg. was bad it could have scored the input shaft which can take the new pilot brg. out very quick causing the same problem. Peter

 

[dieselburner]

Originally posted by South Bend Clutch:
Diesel, Hemi has a good point, Center Force uses the original design disc which has a tendency to through springs, this can cause release problems. Also, if the original pilot brg. was bad it could have scored the input shaft which can take the new pilot brg. out very quick causing the same problem. Peter

UPDATE:
Something broke hard in the driveline tonight on the way home. Had to get it towed. The truck was getting harder to shift and I was planning on changing oil this weekend. Don't know what it is yet, could be clutch or input shaft but whatever it was it definately let go real hard. I'll get it apart this weekend and let everyone know if it's the clutch or not.

------------------
1998 2500 Quad Cab, 12V, 5spd, 4x4, HD Transfer Case, 370HP Diamond B Injectors, #4 TST, 16cm2 Housing, AFC Spring Kit, BD Governor Spring Kit and other governor modifications, Walker Muffler, 285/75-16 BFG AT's, Stainless Steel Tube Steps, Reese Fifth Wheel Hitch, Leather, CD, LSD Dana 80 Rear, 60 Front, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Rancho Steering Stabilizer, ATS Exhaust Manifold, Psychotty Air Induction, BD Exhaust Brake, Enterprise Engine Delivery Valves

 

[HEMI®Dart]

dieselburner

Sorry to hear that. What a way to ruin a night. It's probably not the input shaft. The only time I've heard of them breaking is with an un-sprung hub, like on a McClod Clutch. I could be wrong. Peter has much more knowledge than me. #ad


Keep us posted on what the problem is.



[This message has been edited by HEMI®Dart (edited 03-15-2001). ]

 

[South Bend Clutch]

dieselburner, the prototype is running into a couple of problems. If you need something now, the {0087 con. B} will do the trick. It may take a couple of tries to perfect the new design. With shipping and installation the pross. may take a little while. Peter

 

[dieselburner]

Originally posted by South Bend Clutch:
dieselburner, the prototype is running into a couple of problems. If you need something now, the {0087 con. B} will do the trick. It may take a couple of tries to perfect the new design. With shipping and installation the pross. may take a little while. Peter

Peter,
Thanks for the info. I haven't decided which way to go yet on the new clutch. Right now it's between yours and the Mcleod. I did get my truck all apart this morning and found my centerforce in pieces. The center broke out and all of the springs were loose. The transmission is fine. What was strange about the way it broke was that I was not shifting. I was just accelerating in 4th and it let go. I was crankin it up a little bit at the time. I was kind of messing with some cows out on a country road, the turbo screamin' messes with their ears #ad
. After it broke and I was sitting their waiting for the tow truck, they all kind of came too close and it was gettin a little weird #ad
.

------------------
1998 2500 Quad Cab, 12V, 5spd, 4x4, HD Transfer Case, 370HP Diamond B Injectors, #4 TST, 16cm2 Housing, AFC Spring Kit, BD Governor Spring Kit and other governor modifications, Walker Muffler, 285/75-16 BFG AT's, Stainless Steel Tube Steps, Reese Fifth Wheel Hitch, Leather, CD, LSD Dana 80 Rear, 60 Front, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Rancho Steering Stabilizer, ATS Exhaust Manifold, Psychotty Air Induction, BD Exhaust Brake, Enterprise Engine Delivery Valves

 

[South Bend Clutch]

dieselburner, take a look at your pilot brg. , when the center force lets go like that it throughs the disc out of balance. This can put undo stress on the brg. . If it did check the input shaft where it rides on the brg. for damage. You may need to replace the shaft and front brg. of the trans. Sorry you had the misfortune. When we saw that disc design we new there was going to be a problem. The 6. 5 Chevy diesels are going through the same thing!!! Peter

 

[HEMI®Dart]

dieselburner


The Centeforce was in pieses? Holy Mackrel!

I was looking at a CenterForce to replace my OE one.

My truck is not as strong as yours, yet.

I'll stay away from the CF.

Good Luck!

 

[JJW_ND]

So how does a Centerforce compare to a stock Dodge clutch???? (Not a Mcloud, or Sachs, or High HP South Bend)

Is it better, the same or worse? Longevity and clamping ability being what I am interested in.

I have one, and it has 50K on with no problem to date. When I replaced the stock clutch at 150K, Centerforce was about $100 cheaper. I am at about the 230/605 power range, allot more then stock but pretty mild compared to most. Centerforce was the clutch TST, BlueChip and BD sold as an upgrade over stock at the time. I got 150K on the stock clutch with never any slipping. I went with Centerforce because it was cheaper then stock ($405 at the time) and I assumed it would meet or exceed the stock clutch in longevity.

I would expect a Centerforce to have problems with 400hp (if one is using all 400). Likewise I think a Mcloud in a stock truck or even a 230/605 setup is overkill.

Just look for the Clutch experts to try and catigorize this clutch. I am after a long life clutch that is built to take hard, heavy pulling.

jjw
ND

 

[dieselburner]

Originally posted by JJW-ND:
So how does a Centerforce compare to a stock Dodge clutch???? (Not a Mcloud, or Sachs, or High HP South Bend)

Is it better, the same or worse? Longevity and clamping ability being what I am interested in.

I have one, and it has 50K on with no problem to date. When I replaced the stock clutch at 150K, Centerforce was about $100 cheaper. I am at about the 230/605 power range, allot more then stock but pretty mild compared to most. Centerforce was the clutch TST, BlueChip and BD sold as an upgrade over stock at the time. I got 150K on the stock clutch with never any slipping. I went with Centerforce because it was cheaper then stock ($405 at the time) and I assumed it would meet or exceed the stock clutch in longevity.

I would expect a Centerforce to have problems with 400hp (if one is using all 400). Likewise I think a Mcloud in a stock truck or even a 230/605 setup is overkill.

Just look for the Clutch experts to try and catigorize this clutch. I am after a long life clutch that is built to take hard, heavy pulling.

jjw
ND

Southbend,
The input shaft is fine. The clutch let go all at once and I just shut it off so no damage. I wiped it down and looked at it real close.

Hemi,
The center of the clutch separated from the outer friction material. There are approximately 15 or so spring lying on the floor in my garage The 4 springs that you normally see on a clutch are still in place. The centerforce did not slip that I was aware of but there is a lot of dust and debris in the bell housing. The clutch is about 65 percent used up if you look at the lining that is left. I would still recommend this clutch to those that are at a moderate power level. I think that I recently put it over the top with some fueling mods.

JJW-ND,
The centerforce is much stronger than stock. I was able to hold the power with this clutch for 30K miles. I was not launching in third gear or any of that stuff. I was however pulling a 14,500 pound fifth wheel up some very steep mountain grades on ocaasional trips and was shutting down fords and chevies for about a year and a half with a turned up truck. I always had the truck in gear and rolling before turning on the power. I don't have a gripe with centerforce, I simply out powered it's application. For most it's probably fine.

------------------
1998 2500 Quad Cab, 12V, 5spd, 4x4, HD Transfer Case, 370HP Diamond B Injectors, #4 TST, 16cm2 Housing, AFC Spring Kit, BD Governor Spring Kit and other governor modifications, Walker Muffler, 285/75-16 BFG AT's, Stainless Steel Tube Steps, Reese Fifth Wheel Hitch, Leather, CD, LSD Dana 80 Rear, 60 Front, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Rancho Steering Stabilizer, ATS Exhaust Manifold, Psychotty Air Induction, BD Exhaust Brake, Enterprise Engine Delivery Valves

[This message has been edited by dieselburner (edited 03-18-2001). ]

 

[South Bend Clutch]

desielburner, the difference between the stock clutch and the Center Force is, they are both stock clutches made by LUK. Center Force takes the flywheel lining off and cuts it into segments then bonds the segmented material to a piece of steel. Then they rivet that back on the disc. This creates more pounds per square inch because there is less material. Then they add centrifical wieghts with a wire to the pressure plate. Through high RPM the weights then fling outward and add even more plate load. The setup is cool and works great in alot of applications. The only problem I see with the Dodge Diesels is the LUK design disc. The springs are very long and aren't held in by much metal. When the disc is spinning the springs start to bow and creates alot of pressure at the outside edge of the spring to the window tab that holds the spring in. This can cause the spring retainer to brake. This can be more prevalent when horse power is added. As for the weights there might not be enough RPM to make the weights affective unless you plan on going to the drag strip. Peter

 

[South Bend Clutch]

The message I wrote above was ment for JJW-ND, sorry for the mistake dieselburner, Peter

 

[dieselburner]

I ordered a dual disc McLeod today from Jim Leonard in Riverside. He will be sending me new clutch discs, flywheel with oversize roller pilot bearing, T/O bearing, pressure plate and some washers to adjust the throw on the clutch for better disengagement. He said he'd have it here by Friday so I can install on Saturday #ad
.

Steve (Driving a toyota for a week now)

I MISS MY TRUCK #ad
!