$590.00 fine yesterday for not enough license

[CUMMINZ]

I want all of you to suffer through this. Here in North Carolina.



I have 33k on my dually. 32k has been towing RV heavy. I have my truck tagged for 10k. RV towing is exempt on tag requirement in NC. I almost never tow a heavy utility trailer. Maybe 3 times a year. And this is intown. Never interstate or county driving.



My daughter needed some crossties. I rented a 16' double axle trailer from local rental company. Had tie crane load 3 bundles of 8' ties on my trailer. No load for the truck but max for trailer.



My wife and I drove 10 miles toward Charlotte and passed HP on entrance ramp to interstate. He immediately pulled out and caught up with me and pulled to my left rear I suppose to read my tag. He called it in and saw I had 10k tag. Would have been fine for towing my 16k RV but not this 9. 9k trailer. He pulled me over and directed me to the next truck stop where he pulled out the scales and weighed each axle, measured length of front truck axle and center of trailer axles.



He wrote me a ticket for 9900#s over my truck tag. He checked the GVW tags on trailer and truck. I was under the GVW ratings of rig but did not have enough tag weight. Cost me $590. 00...



He was not interested in GCVW...



I found out these facts: For North Carolina @ this point forget RV towing



Class C license



You can drive truck up to 26k GVW

You can drive truck up to 26k GVW and trailer to 10k GVW

You can drive motor coach with GVW of 26k



Class B license



You can drive motor coach with GVW over 26k



Class A license required for any truck with trailer over 10k GVW

Class A license required for any truck with RV behind over 10k GVW



Any truck pulling RV for recreation is not required to pull in weight station.

If you are in truck and pulling an RV over 10k GVW and get stopped or go through license check and do not have Class A license you are subject to ticket.



This has blown most of my thinking.



We have beat to death GCVW and we do not need to legal wise. Safety wise (yes)



He mentioned lawyers and accidents and liability. They look at GVWs of both vehicles not GCVW.



Officer said this is the most misunderstood law out there. Not the issue of weight but the license you are required to have.



Most accidents we are seeing are probably because of not being aware of your duty driving, Class C drivers like myself that might could ignore an accident if I went through training and getting Class A license. It might make me aware of a few dangers I have not heard of.



OK, beat me up!!



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Click here to see ticket...

 

[LBARTLETT]

good info. ! I really need to get my class A for when pulling a load of hay

 

[SRath]

That is a mighty expensive education, CUMMINZ.

Too expensive, and I don't think it is fair or right. I certainly hope you take advantage of your right to appear in court and explain your side. That whole licensing system seems structured to entrap and confuse. And that is IF the HP actually knew what he was talking about.

 

[SRath]

There is a more subtle lesson here: Since you are NOT a commercial vehicle, he would likely need some probable cause to stop you and certainly to weigh you. If your load had been tarped or otherwise covered, he would have no leg to stand on to explain why he "thought" you might be overweight. You may have had a load of ADS field tile under that tarp, which weighs nearly nothing. He would also need a search warrant to even look under that tarp.

When you say "class A" license, I'm assuming you mean a Class A CDL (Commercial Drivers License). You were NOT hauling commercially. Furthermore, if you had been from a state that does not make such unreasonable and illogical "laws" for driving a non-commercial pickup pulling a non-commercial load on a non-commercial trailer, North Carolina could NOT fine you for not having a "class A" under the Interstate commerce Act which requires all states to honor all other states licenses and licensing requirements for their citizens.

I'm not advocating breaking the law, but this is more of a game than a sensible law, given the exemption granted to RV's. So play the game. Play to win.

This kind of crap ranks right there with unwarranted searches of your fuel tank for off-road fuel.

 

[HBarlow]

Cumminz,

I've been posting the same things that the trooper told you for at least a couple of years including a long on-going argument here on TDR about a month ago over the GCWR issue. As I've said many times, DOT troopers don't know or give a hoot about the manufacturer's GCWR.

I disagree with one point you made:

"You can drive truck up to 26k GVW and trailer to 10k GVW"

Either you stated that in an unclear manner or misunderstood what the tropper told you. You cannot drive a single vehicle or combination vehicle that exceeds gross combined weight or RATED weight of 26,000# with a Class C license. The example you used would have combined weight of 36,000# which would get you a very hefty ticket.

You can drive a truck with an actual or GVWR of 10,000 pulling a trailer with actual or gross rated weight of 16,000# but not 16,001#.

 

[jelag]

Harvey has it right... . We used an 04 to tow a trailer rated at 20K, and it was at gross most of the time... it required a Class A to tow this... if it had been an RV they are the exception to the law... all others require the Class A...

I can't tell you how many times I've been stopped the way you've stated but to the dismay of the law officer we had the correct plate, license and other items, regarding safety...

When we have the correct plates, license, etc than they do a safety inspection to make sure the vehicle is safe...

 

[GaryOwen]

From NCDOT website these are lisence requirements:



Class A: Required to operate any combination of vehicles exempt from commercial driver license (CDL) requirements with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is greater than 10,000 pounds.



Class B: Required to operate any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more that is exempt from CDL requirements, and any such vehicle while towing another vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less.



Class C: Required to operate any single vehicle that is not carrying hazardous material in quantities required to be placarded or is designed to carry no more than 15 passengers including the driver with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds; or any vehicle towing a vehicle which has a combined GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds operated by driver at least eighteen years old. Most drivers need only a Regular C license to operate personal automobiles and small trucks.



========================================================

Simplified (I think) -



Class C lisence is okay if you keep the Combined GVWR to 26k or less, even if your trailer exceeds 10k.



Class B required if you exceed 26k with a trailer that is under 10k.



Class A required if you exceed 26k with a trailer over 10k.

 

[steved]

That is a mighty expensive education, CUMMINZ.

Too expensive, and I don't think it is fair or right.

Why isn't it fair... he was hauling over a well documented GVW. A "class C" (basic) license is not commercial, and is a 10k trailer in most states.

I have seen on the off-road forums where guys have been fined for not having clearance lights on the cab (over 80 inches). I have also seen where they are targeting non-commercial trucks (i. e. pickups) locally... even going as far as scaling (commercial scales) them when they have a trailer.


License Classes as defined by NC:

If you are 18 years of age or older you may apply for an original North Carolina driver license. Under North Carolina's classified license system most drivers need only a Class C license to operate personal automobiles and small trucks.

Class A: Required to operate any combination of vehicles exempt from commercial driver license (CDL) requirements with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is greater than 10,000 pounds.

Class B: Required to operate any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more that is exempt from CDL requirements, and any such vehicle while towing another vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less.

Class C: Required to operate any single vehicle that is not carrying hazardous material in quantities required to be placarded or is designed to carry no more than 15 passengers including the driver with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds; or any vehicle towing a vehicle which has a combined GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds operated by driver at least eighteen years old. Most drivers need only a Regular C license to operate personal automobiles and small trucks.



So I guess I'm one of a few that are actually legal... CDL A. If you notice, those classes aren't "commercial", that is something else. If he was in PA, he would have most likely gotten dinged for the driver's license, as you are required to have an "A" to tow anything over 10k (its just not enforced regularly).

 

[jgillott]

As I mentioned in a previous thread, I had a similar experience with a DOT inspection last year. I had my personal truck and trailer hauling a load of sand bags. I was very surprised that I was subject to such a complete inspection in a non-commercial vehicle. Anyway, after he was finished, he didn't explain why I was selected for inspection, just that everything checked out OK. I was so happy not to end up with a ticket, I didn't even dare to ask. If I remember correctly, I was just a few hundred #'s to the good with my truck weight, and had a half ton or so to spare on the trailer. I'm sure that I was, as the OP was, going to face a fine if I was over weight.



I have been driving commercial trucks on and off for 15 years, and that certainly wasn't my first DOT inspection. But, it was the first I've experienced on a privately owned vehicle. Since then, there have been several apparent non-commercial trucks stopped in that same location. I'm not sure why this is occuring now, but it is becomming less and less rare to hear of.

 

[brods]

Didn't he get a ticket for being overweight, not for the wrong licence?

 

[jgillott]

Didn't he get a ticket for being overweight, not for the wrong licence?

Yes, he got a ticket for being over the weight he is registered for on his plate if I understand the way this thread is progressing.

 

[CUMMINZ]

My license was OK and got ticket because my truck license tag was for 10k. I did not exceed my GVWs. Neither truck or trailer. Simply I did not have enough tag to cover total load.





I am right with stating you don't need class A to drive rental truck with GVW of 26k and trailer under 10k. But if my trailer goes to 10. 1k I am not legal with class C.

 

[HBarlow]

I've posted this bit of info before but I'll post it again. About three years ago I picked up a Flying J magazine at a truck stop. That issue contained an article explaining the increased enforcement that drivers were experiencing on the road. The author stated that the blow-dried empty suits in congress had cancelled the old "single state registration" system that allowed trucking companies to register all their trucks and trailers with their home state and each state the company declared it would operate in shared the tax revenue. Congress said they intended to replace the SSR system with another regulation but, as often, they failed to do so.

Bottom line: States lost millions in revenue so they are making up for it . . . in enhanced highway enforcement. Many ordinary citizens who use their light trucks to haul material or equipment are learning about the increased enforcement as Cumminz did.

 

[jgillott]

So I guess I'm one of a few that are actually legal... CDL A. If you notice, those classes aren't "commercial", that is something else. If he was in PA, he would have most likely gotten dinged for the driver's license, as you are required to have an "A" to tow anything over 10k (its just not enforced regularly).

There are literally dozens of guys that pull their tractors and/or large loads of hay in my area that own 14,000+ GVWR trailers. I can't understand, for as many that are on the road here, how they continue to get away with it.



One guy here that I argue with all the time pulls a 14,000 GVWR trailer with 2 pulling tractors on it with his 8800# GVWR 1998 Ram 2500. He truly thinks that he is legal in the state of PA because the #'s don't add up to 26,000.

 

[jgillott]

I am right with stating you don't need class A to drive rental truck with GVW of 26k and trailer under 10k. But if my trailer goes to 10. 1k I am not legal with class C.

Yes, you are correct. You can drive a 26,000 GVWR rental truck with a class C, and you can tow up to a 10,000 GVWR trailer with a class C. A class A CDL allows you to exceed both the 26,000 GVWR truck limit and 10,000 GVWR trailer limit as long as the neither the truck or trailer exceed their registered or listed GVWR. Having a CDL would not have kept you from getting a ticket in your case. If you are over the GVWR of your truck or trailer, you are considered illegal regardless of the liscense class we are talking about.

 

[steved]

As I mentioned in a previous thread, I had a similar experience with a DOT inspection last year. I had my personal truck and trailer hauling a load of sand bags. I was very surprised that I was subject to such a complete inspection in a non-commercial vehicle. Anyway, after he was finished, he didn't explain why I was selected for inspection, just that everything checked out OK. I was so happy not to end up with a ticket, I didn't even dare to ask. If I remember correctly, I was just a few hundred #'s to the good with my truck weight, and had a half ton or so to spare on the trailer. I'm sure that I was, as the OP was, going to face a fine if I was over weight.



I have been driving commercial trucks on and off for 15 years, and that certainly wasn't my first DOT inspection. But, it was the first I've experienced on a privately owned vehicle. Since then, there have been several apparent non-commercial trucks stopped in that same location. I'm not sure why this is occuring now, but it is becomming less and less rare to hear of.

I was pulled over in Iowa towing my 1500# trailer (yes, fifteen hundred pounds) to New Mexico about five years ago... my equipment was checked over, not for weight; but because I was towing. They scrutinized the coupler (pintle hitch), the registration (current), and trailer tires (Load Range D, one would carry more than the trailer is rated to haul)... they could have cared less about the weight (which was a good thing, it would have been really close).



They pulled me over right on the shoulder and went over me.



I want to remember they dipped my tank too... I have been dipped about a half dozen times now and almost all were midwest.



I wasn't the only one, there were probably four or five others pulled over along the same stretch of road... they were not bothering the campers, only "utility" type trailers.

 

[steved]

My license was OK and got ticket because my truck license tag was for 10k. I did not exceed my GVWs. Neither truck or trailer. Simply I did not have enough tag to cover total load.





I am right with stating you don't need class A to drive rental truck with GVW of 26k and trailer under 10k. But if my trailer goes to 10. 1k I am not legal with class C.

Agree'd... most guys overlook the driver's license though. If you REALLY look into the laws (at least in PA), you would need a CDL "C" to deliver pizza.



There are three ways they get you... over your REGISTERED weight (your tags), over your actual GVW, or wrong class license. They prey on the fact that most light truck owners are ignorant of one of those facts... its easy money.



Up to a few years ago, you could "adjust" your registered GVW down to save $$. They have since did away with that and base it on the titled weight. I had an older 3/4 ton truck registered as a 1/2 ton, and I also had a 1994 1500 registered as a 3/4 ton. You can do the same thing with trailers... the neighbor has a 7k trailer that's registered as a 10k. If you get a smart officer, they will check hitch and axle weight ratings.

 

[HBarlow]

Yes, you are correct. You can drive a 26,000 GVWR rental truck with a class C, and you can tow up to a 10,000 GVWR trailer with a class C. A class A CDL allows you to exceed both the 26,000 GVWR truck limit and 10,000 GVWR trailer limit as long as the neither the truck or trailer exceed their registered or listed GVWR. Having a CDL would not have kept you from getting a ticket in your case. If you are over the GVWR of your truck or trailer, you are considered illegal regardless of the liscense class we are talking about.

Sorry, that IS NOT correct. You CAN drive the 26,000# rental truck but you CANNOT also tow the trailer weighing one pound with the same rental truck.

The combined weight and combined rated weight limit with a class C driver's license is 26,000#.

Anything over 26,000# when commercial requires a CDL and many states are now moving to require RVers pulling heavy fivers to have a Class A driver's (not CDL) license.

 

[HBarlow]

There are literally dozens of guys that pull their tractors and/or large loads of hay in my area that own 14,000+ GVWR trailers. I can't understand, for as many that are on the road here, how they continue to get away with it.

One guy here that I argue with all the time pulls a 14,000 GVWR trailer with 2 pulling tractors on it with his 8800# GVWR 1998 Ram 2500. He truly thinks that he is legal in the state of PA because the #'s don't add up to 26,000.

Sorry, your friend is correct, you are mistaken. He CAN legally tow a 14,000# trailer with a 8800# pickup with a Class C driver's license because the rated and/or gross weight is less than 26,000#.

 

[jgillott]

Sorry, that IS NOT correct. You CAN drive the 26,000# rental truck but you CANNOT also tow the trailer weighing one pound with the same rental truck.



The combined weight and combined rated weight limit with a class C license is 26,000#.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make the inference that he could exceed the combination. I assumend that he was talking about towing a 10,000 GVWR trailer with his Ram or driving a 26000 GVWR rental truck. Thanks for pointing that out.