5th gear nut

[nopowerforme]

Has anyone had a dealer do the fix for the 5th gear ? My dealer gave me a price of $313 just for a new gear plus $38. 50 for the nut Can i just replace the nut? Do I have to replace the gear? I am having no trouble yet but want to do something before I lose it.

 

[BCFAST]

Dont fool with the dealer at all! They provide a "fix" with a nut and locking pin that doesnt work either... call Standard Transmission in TX and order their fix. For under $500, you get a new fully-splined shaft, nut and gear! This can be replaced without taking the gearbox out of the truck.

 

[C Schomer]

There's no way to put that shaft in without tearing down the gearbox! Craig

 

[BCFAST]

Sorry, I was told wrong!!

 

[C Schomer]

You have to pull the transmission, remove the tower and tail housing, then the 5th gear set and fork, then the input shaft and then the mainshaft will come out. Then disassemble it and put everything on the new shaft and be sure all the syncro stuff is timed right. Be sure to have some shimstock around because the endplay changes with the new shaft and has to be reshimmed. Not a job for someone without considerable syncro box experience! That's why I got help myself. There's a lot of small parts in there! All the bearings are caged, so that helps. Some snap rings aren't even visible until pressed gears are removed to expose them. It would be very easy to damage some parts if you don't know the order they come apart. I didn't watch very closely, I was cleaning parts while my nephew did the shaft change. He had all the bearing splitters and snap ring pliers besides the knowhow. I still wouldn't do it again by myself. The new gear and shaft are a medium press fit which means pretty damn tight. The locktite was setting up(it was a hot day) before we figured out we had to find a heavier pipe to fit over the shaft to drive the gear on and went up to a sledge hammer. The locktite was setting fast on the nut too, so we torqued it to 400 to compensate for the extra drag. Here's a tip - while the transmission is out, drill two small holes by the clutch throwout fork pivot ball and wire the pivot end of the fork tight against the ball. It's too easy to knock the fork off the ball while stabbing the transmission. Craig

 

[F Simkowski (In Memory)]

Thanks Craig Schomer for interjecting the real story into the mix of info.

The fully splined shaft is the way to go for the 5 gear fix.

 

[Champane Flight]

Another way

Send a note off to Standard transmission,and they will exchange your transmission for a rebuilt(one with fully splined shaft ). Don't know the cost. But better than a poke in butt with a sharp stick... .

 

[nopowerforme]

So... am I to gather that the dealer fix by replacing the nut with one that will not come off is not a good option?



I am having no trouble yet and I have 100,550 mi on this transmission, I have amsoil oil in it.



Any other suggestions other than changing the transmission or doing all that $$$$ work?



Thanks guys for all your input.

 

[drawson]

I did mine nut when I did my clutch last march. I had to beat on the wrench to remove it. It was really on there. I cleaned off everything, lock tight, and tortque the new nut. But in hind sight I think the old one would have never came off, it was on that good. BTW my 5th gear was still a press fit.

 

[LWilliams]

First off, it's just a matter of time before you lose 5th gear. It will happen. You DON"T want the dealer fix. It will NOT hold. Call Standard Transmission in Texas. They are the only ones that have a true proven fix for the 5th gear problem. They will ship the parts you need to any transmission shop you find that is familar with this transmission. Unless you know this transmission inside and out, don't try the fix your self. It has to be completely dismanteled to install the mainshaft. If you want to wait till you lose the gear, that's ok, it won't hurt anything. But it will probably happen at a very bad time, like 100 miles away from home at the start of a trip. With the amount of miles you have on your truck it is probably a good time to replace the throw out bearing anyhow. The clutch may be getting close to its usefull life too. I made it to 114K with no trouble, and I pull a 30K lb trailer pretty often, before mine went out. After you see what's in there you will be glad you went with Standard Transmission's fix. Good luck.

 

[Sled Puller]

Call Dave Mitchell at www.enterpriseengine.com

They are in Columbus Ohio, and are 5 and 6 speed experts.



You are ahead of the game with Amsoil, I would still change it once a year/ 30,000 miles. If you have not lugged a lot in 5th, I bet it won't come off.



Mitchells had mine apart at 88,000 abused miles on it to fix a bad third gear, and 5th and the shaft were PERFECT. I never lug in 5th, always wide open.

I had them install the fully splined main shaft anyway, since it was out fixing 3rd, and I plan on keeping it.



Always get second opinions and shop around.



Gene

 

[Dan Markeson]

Fifth Gear Nut

In my circle of people, I do not know and have never heard of a truck with a 3. 54 rear end loosing the fifth gear nut. Not saying it doesn't happen. I had the dealer do mine at 60k and they paid for it. I've since had the transmission out due to breakage (pieces of third gear everywhere)and had opportunity to mess with it again. Mine was still tight at 125k. I agree that the dealer nut is a waste of time. Two friends of mine had the dealer put the nut back on twice (4:10's). The third time at about 130k for one of the guys we did it ourselves with the Standard Trans part. Much better nut. We did the fully splined shaft on his, but you wouldn't need it just to upgrade the nut. You can replace the nut without pulling the transmission, but you need a custom socket to get it off.



The guys are right about the transmission work. If you're not tooled and experienced, get help. Go to a local small trucking operation (gravel haulers or what ever) find out if they do their own work. A few hundred dollars and a case of beer can go a long way. Make sure you get references for the guy's expertise though. It's not rocket science. I've done all my work at a place called Chamber's Construction in Kingston, WA.

 

[rhoads]

5 gear

Do what you wish after reading all the advice BUT I own the only 96 five speed on this web site and can tell you the cause of failure and a tried and true Low cost fix.

For replacement parts standard transmission is the best house in town BUT the repair can be done for a parts cost of under $60 , Labor not included. I"ve tested the dodge fix (no parts cost to me) (nut/gear kit) release 'ed late 98 sept.

After the failure of the fix ,went back to mine,still intact with aprox 420,000 , and if i wanted could give you the name of the project eng of the 4500 transmission and 5600 but Wont.....

What i will share is the fix. E-mail -- email address removed ----- or call at your risk (busy) 219-936-9844 Got a 800 # I" ll call back.

Note the miles in my profile.

Another note,if you order parts insist on Fed-x shipment . Gnd and if your are in my area you will have it the day i have it. .

 

[nopowerforme]

Okay, lots of god info..... I seem to be getting the feeling that it is trucks with the 4:10 rear end that has the most trouble with the nut on the 5th gear.



I have a 5 spd with the 3:54 Rear end. So how many out there with the 3:54 have had this trouble?





Thanks guys





This is a great site

 

[gitchesum]

Originally posted by nopowerforme

Okay, lots of god info..... I seem to be getting the feeling that it is trucks with the 4:10 rear end that has the most trouble with the nut on the 5th gear.



I have a 5 spd with the 3:54 Rear end. So how many out there with the 3:54 have had this trouble?











This is a great site

Mine went with 126,00 on the ticker. $450 out the door with the Dodge fix. I talked to the guy that does my transmission work and he told me he's done many 5th gear nut fixes and has only had a couple come back. I trust this guy and have no reason to doubt him.

Take this how you want. The Standard transmission fix minght be the best but, I cant see breaking into a perfectly good transmission to replace the shaft IF you don't have to

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I was at Enterprise at the same time as MGM getting my clutch installed. I had 60,000 on my truck at the time. While I had it apart I had Enterprise install the Dodge nut fix. My 5th gear was still on great at that point. I figure if it held for 60,000 miles with the stock nut on it, it will last a long time with the nut fix on it. JMHO, but I would either wait until 5th gear lets go or you have the transmission out for a new clutch. If you have it out for a new clutch you can inspect 5th gear, if it's still on tight with your driving habits installing the 5th gear nut fix can only improve things. I agree that the fully splined mainshaft is the real answer but I personally couldn't see tearing down transmission to install it when 5th gear was still fine after 60,000 miles. I had the nut fix installed as an insurance policy. That said - if 5th gear goes out on me on a long trip it's going to be a LOOONG drive home with my 4. 10's (I'll be doing about 50-55).

 

[Turbo Thom]

The transmission from ST in Tx. is $1600. 00. I replaced one at 196K miles. I would also advise you to take the Amsoil out of the gear box. JoeD has said to stay with the Mopar fluid and I think he's right. I had the amsoil in and the front seal went out. I went back to the Mopar . I sell the Amsoil but will stay with the Mopar in the transmission.



Preston

 

[Sled Puller]

Turbo Thom,

Steve and I have both seen the Castrol trannys and the Amsoil trannys.

Thanks, but We advise ourselves to keep the Amsoil in!!





Amsoil does not cause seal failures.

 

[rhoads]

rear gears/5Th failure

" UN-true" it has nothing to do with it, Have you read the post that say" don't run 5th " Or i never us 5 th if RPM are below say 1600?? And if you read the owners manual they say don't tow x- weight in 5 th?How many amoung usget to read the owners manual before Purchase?? AND who spends the bucks to buy a vehical with over drive (fuel savings) and Not use it????

About a year ago one member called me ,said he had a 3:54 and only drove to & from work and about once a year took his fishing boat to the lake,cant remember his name ,but Wi. was the state. Lost 5 th at 50 k,also eng was not turned up.

Back in the early -mid 70's the big rigs had the same problem under the IH lable in the tandmen (DANA- IH owned at that time) set-up when cummins went from a 2100 RPM set up- to- high torque/low RPM. 1100-1800 ,only it would shake the nut off the bull gear of the rear-end. The fix in that case was more toque.

Thick shaft & big nut not a problem ,as i recall went from 900-1300 ft lb-had to buy multiplyer. Simple terms more holding power.

With the size of the shaft of the 4500 and the thicknest of the nut more torque is not an option... . They install from the factory with loc-tite so thats out. They started with a loc nut--no help,next came a key-way cut in the shaft and staking one time nut into the keyway-((note my trk i spec'd an ordered in May 96)

got it june 28th) between 1st and 2nd try at a fix(mine had 2nd)

2 days after i owned the rig i found out about the massive failure rate in Elkhart In (towing captial)was testing grounds for cummins (mfg's that owned there own delivery fleet) Now down to one.

My nut came off just past a mounth of owenership (32k) made a quick fix with the OEM worn nut(spinning on a shaft 20 miles) Droped into 4th and fond a shop with a hoist,Dodge ocala,fl said 3 days befor it would get into the door.

Held for 262,000 mi (a year and a couple mo. ,s) Did jump the hp at 135k.

Contacted the Mfg for idea's found they couldnt touch my mileage,got to field test there current fix about to go into production july 98--(This was in june 98)-- failed 49k later reported back,my results were still untouchable,secured a nut used on the shaft with the key cut and did my fix and to date has stayed in place for aprox 400,000 miles.

Another note ,some o/d Mfg'ers state in there add's this wont be a problem if you use one of there units--I ran into a guy broke down on the street in Elkhart with one installed two days after he bought his truck (fuel savings)and his fifth gear went out at 130,oook pulled him to safty and havent heard from him but if he took my advice he has a SB clutch pilot bushing in place and did my simple fix AND it is not a welder... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .....

Going to hit print now call if i dont get fix posted tommower morining. Want to see how much of this hits the Mag.

 

[rhoads]

lube

Slipery subject! let's hope!

I my self didnt like the high price of the Mfg's lube & the man made lube has a great dislike for moisture (should one get caught in high water) i Know for a fact and my current 700,000++++ miles and records can prove castrol's 75-90 syntic will stand the the heat,torque +,no proplem shifting and still to this day have all OEM bearings. clutches,and such, Drain gear box every aprox 100k pull the pto cover to peak inside ,and to check the inside of the of the cover plate for grindings(4" round magnet stuck on out side) to attract and floating pieces/parts. None have ever showened up. .

lets do the math ,drained the OEM's factory fill at 3000 to make sure no spare things were floating around,lube cost aprox $28 times 7 = $210 with tax?? Hauled weights over 32,ooolb steep hills





Seems to work here?? Got to bear your own load. Your choice!!