6.0 Powerstroke vs. 5.9 Cummins

[DPKetchum]

I've meet several folks with late model powerstrokes that have had complete engine and trans replacements(autos and manuals)due to various reasons. Plastic parts of turbo breaking off and being sucked into engine etc. Question is excatly what kind of problems are they having. Just curious?

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by MattSt

Good comparison. It's nice that they tested them with some weight behind them. One thing I wish they would have listed was the current mileage of each truck. My brothers 01 HO CTD was a real dog till it hit about 5000 miles. Then it was like the flood gates were opened. My new 03 feels strong even though it only has 250 miles on it and I'm trying to take it easy. But I know there is more potential just waiting to get broke in. Mine has a odd dead spot from 2500-2900. I'm sure it's nothing a chip and exhaust can't fix.



Also to answer the question. I like the looks of all of the listed trucks. I bought the CTD for power WITH reliability. A friend of mine has a 01 PSD with 420 hp 1000+ tq at the rear wheels. It only has 20,000 miles and I could have bought it for $32,000. I had nightmares of the crank breaking in half and all the interior rattles/poor fit and finish that you get with a Ford.

That odd dead spot might be telling you it's time to shift to a higher gear.

 

[jimnance]

I've found mine to want to pull all the way to 2,900 RPM. Of course I'm pulling +/- 14,000 lbs so it probably feels different than when it's lite.



With a six speed racing isn't a very productive excersize so I typically don't run it up much beyond 2300 RPM when driving unloaded.

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by jimnance

I've found mine to want to pull all the way to 2,900 RPM. Of course I'm pulling +/- 14,000 lbs so it probably feels different than when it's lite.



With a six speed racing isn't a very productive excersize so I typically don't run it up much beyond 2300 RPM when driving unloaded.

Gee, those of us who don't haul much would never break a truck in that way. Unloaded, I typically don't shift until I hit about 2200 RPM. However, cruising down the highway in 6th is lower than that until I hit 70 or so.



But to help the break-in process along, I push it a little on the hills. I call climbing hills another way of hauling a heavier load. But I don't pedal-to-the-metal. Just enough to keep a little pressure on what's going on in the engine.



I have 5K on my truck now and have only had it since Nov. 9.

 

[TxDieselKid]

Those new 6. 0L have some nice hot-rod parts on them. Then again, the new 5. 9 also does. It will be intresting to watch the after market over the next 2 years.



Andrew

 

[jimnance]

Jeremiah,



I have pulled some good hills with the fiver behind. This engine really likes to pull the hills at a higher RPM than my earlier CTD's.

It seems to be very happy pulling in the 2500-2900 RPM range.



I'd rather be in a higher gear and lower RPM's but the new engine doesn't get into the meat of it's power band until about 2400 RPM or so.



One of the things I find appealing about the Edge is that the torque curve starts stronger sooner than the stock set up. With the extra 50 HP and higher torque I should be able to pull the steep hills in fifth at 2400 RPM and still exceed the speed I presently pull the hills in fourth.

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by jimnance

Jeremiah,



I have pulled some good hills with the fiver behind. This engine really likes to pull the hills at a higher RPM than my earlier CTD's.

It seems to be very happy pulling in the 2500-2900 RPM range.



I'd rather be in a higher gear and lower RPM's but the new engine doesn't get into the meat of it's power band until about 2400 RPM or so.



One of the things I find appealing about the Edge is that the torque curve starts stronger sooner than the stock set up. With the extra 50 HP and higher torque I should be able to pull the steep hills in fifth at 2400 RPM and still exceed the speed I presently pull the hills in fourth.

But as I recall, you haven't installed the Edge in your '03 yet, have you?

 

[jimnance]

Not yet. I'm basing this on the performance figures quoted for the '02 HO CTD. I'm assuming that the new chip will have similar performance.



BTW, the dealer warned me that BOMBING my '03 will void the Cummins warranty. He claims it is all spelled out in both Dodge and Cummins warranty.



He also said that last year alone at his dealership two claims were denied for that reason. He said in both cases the exhaust manifold was overtemped and damaged after the trucks were bombed. In both cases the owners were not running pyrometers.

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by jimnance

Not yet. I'm basing this on the performance figures quoted for the '02 HO CTD. I'm assuming that the new chip will have similar performance.



BTW, the dealer warned me that BOMBING my '03 will void the Cummins warranty. He claims it is all spelled out in both Dodge and Cummins warranty.



He also said that last year alone at his dealership two claims were denied for that reason. He said in both cases the exhaust manifold was overtemped and damaged after the trucks were bombed. In both cases the owners were not running pyrometers.

The dealer is correct, although I'd have to go back and read specifically what the Owner's Manual says. For some time now Robert Patton has been saying in the TDR, "Repeat after me, 'I am my own warranty station'" if you chip or alter anything having to do with engine performance. That could be why Banks hasn't said much about an aftermarket option for the '03.



Robert is probably limited in what he can say ... or maybe even committed to telling magazine members not to do it.



What will change the after-market manufacturers is if the Power Stroke can be "stroked" easily, or if the stock PS eats Dodge's lunch. But what is driving everything is the fact that the government is getting stricter on emmisions.



Ultimately, they will do the after-market bomb manufacturers the way they did the muffler businesses: put 'em in jail, fine them and destroy the business if they mess with a catalytic converter.



Finally, a person would have to be awfully stupid not to install gauges, and know how to use them once they are installed.

 

[WadePatton]

Originally posted by jimnance

He said in both cases the exhaust manifold was overtemped and damaged after the trucks were bombed. In both cases the owners were not running pyrometers.

We'll kick a fella out of the TDR for doing something that dumb.

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by Jeremiah

That odd dead spot might be telling you it's time to shift to a higher gear.

Another thought on that "dead spot. " It might not be a dead spot after all. A diesel engine develops its power differently from a gasoline engine. If you apply "x" amount of power to the throttle and don't do anything else, the speed will build to a certain point and suddenly quit accelerating. That might be that dead spot you're talking about. To fix this, you need to downshift or - depending on where you are in the power band - apply more power. You must also keep in mind what the turbo is doing and take advantage of that.

 

[MattSt]

Originally posted by Jeremiah

Another thought on that "dead spot. " It might not be a dead spot after all. A diesel engine develops its power differently from a gasoline engine. If you apply "x" amount of power to the throttle and don't do anything else, the speed will build to a certain point and suddenly quit accelerating. That might be that dead spot you're talking about. To fix this, you need to downshift or - depending on where you are in the power band - apply more power. You must also keep in mind what the turbo is doing and take advantage of that.

True, I really am not used to driving a CTD that is anywhere near stock may be the problem! It just has an odd feel like the power is stepping back a little. It's starting to go away. I turned over 300 miles pulling into the driveway tonight. And I'm shifting at 3000 now.



Drive it like ya stole it! I'm still getting 14. 6 mpg.

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by MattSt

True, I really am not used to driving a CTD that is anywhere near stock may be the problem! It just has an odd feel like the power is stepping back a little. It's starting to go away. I turned over 300 miles pulling into the driveway tonight. And I'm shifting at 3000 now.



Drive it like ya stole it! I'm still getting 14. 6 mpg.

I don't know that I'd run it up to 3000 RPM before shifting it. That's almost to the redline. I'd say more like 2000 or 2200, no more, particularly on a new engine. In fact, the Owner's Manual has some comments on how to drive your new truck. Instead of driving it like I stole it, I'd rather drive it like I bought it myself and plan to keep it the rest of my life. You'll probably see an increase in MPGs too if you stay away from that redline. I'm getting 19 now that I've got 5K on my '03 3500 HO 6-speed.

 

[MFenza]

I will have to say I am not brand loyal to any of the big three but I will give you a honest opinion as best as I can Because I owned them all and they all have thier problems Dodge has the motor Chevy has the Allison And Ford truck cabs have the most room if I were to intergrate all three of these Components together you would have a great truck Matt 2004. 5 Silver dually 4X4 Laramie

 

[DHawthorne]

The poll does not make sense. I assume most all that voted already own a cummins. The question asked was, "Which other diesel would you buy" If the poll is correct, I assume no one would consider any other kind.



I myself think the 7. 3 was a good engine. It ran dirty in the bottom end all the time. There are still a ton of them running on the road. If you compare problems for problems with sensors, computers etc, the cummins ISB sits alone only in power.



Now, the 12V stands all by itself as the best thats been built in my opinion and should have been included in the poll.



My 2cents.



Dave

 

[Grizzly]

I had a Ford F-250. Sorriest piece of !*#@ I ever had. Had the PS rebuilt at 104K, new engine at 121K. The truck was not much better. I purchased a new 95 Dodge/Cummins dually. I never once had a problem with it. It pulled my 29' 5er to Alaska and back and all over the US with no problem and the engine was totally awesome. I now have an 05 Dodge/Cummins and so far so good and every time I see those poor suckers pulling there RV with a PS, I feel sorry for them. All I really want to say is that there is not a better engine made in the world than a CTD and the Dodge is also pretty darn good too. Grizzly

 

[Eric_77]

boy 2 1/2 year old thread pulled to the top, some psyhics out there about the problems and recalls Ford had/have with the 6. 0

 

[DPelletier]

boy 2 1/2 year old thread pulled to the top, some psyhics out there about the problems and recalls Ford had/have with the 6. 0

I call them TFTD's (Threads From The Dead)



Dave

 

[Matt400]

Personally, I think the Ford Superduty will always be a better truck than the Dodges (powerplant excluded of course!). I really look forward to hearing what you guys have to say!

Did I miss a Ford upgrade on the Brakes? last I knew Dodge brakes were the biggest. What about serviceability? If you do your own maintenance you will find working in and around the Dodge engine bay is more easy, if you pay for service then you will find service charges are higher on the V8's (time is money). If you let too much snow build up on the Ford wipers and snap a link you have to buy the entire wiper transmission assembly with motor as no serviceable parts are sold. I think fit & finish on the Dodge is better but that last statement I am sure will be argued.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Ferd did upgrade thier brakes to match Dodge and speaking of engines, I was at a dyno event recently and found all the ferds to be very "peaky" in regards to torque curve - no matter how much (or how little) power they made. The Cummins always have a nice fat curve which has got to make towing a lot more enjoyable.