6.0 Powerstroke vs. 5.9 Cummins

[agoldbach]

Let me just start by saying that the purpose of this post isn't to instigate an arguement. I want to get input from those of you who love all diesels and who are man enough to give credit where it is due. I took a test drive in the new Powerstroke this past weekend and I think that it leaves the new Cummins in the dust. The power and response was absolutly awesome! I think the new Cummins is absolutely awesome too, but it was hard compare since the Ford had the new TorqShift 5-speed auto. The Dodge had the HD 6 speed. Personally, I think the Ford Superduty will always be a better truck than the Dodges (powerplant excluded of course!). When it comes to the Engine, it will be really hard to choose between the two this fall when I order my 2004. Lastly, let me offer this pre-emptive retort to those of you who will immediatly spew that old line about an inline configuration being better than the V configuration. True, it has less moving parts, but that doesn't mean it's better. A friend of mine told me an interesting story of when he worked for Cummins Engine at their Midrange Engine Plant south of Columbus, OH. He told me that they were developing a V-6 diesel for use in the Durango and Grand Cherokee, before DC scrapped the program. I am appealing to those who are open minded and who want to offer intellegen insight into my query, not get into a peeing contest. I just want to offer that if I didn't think that Cummins engines kick butt, I wouldn't even have bothered to join this site. I really look forward to hearing what you guys have to say!

 

[Groover]

Just look at the torque curve for the 6. 0 P. S. doesn't develop torque until around 2600 RPM vs 1400 for the cummins. Granted I am sure it is real quick spinning nearly 5000 rpms empty. But for towing forget it Nuff- Said

 

[David Muench]

I think that if Cummins wasn't an option at all, I'd get a gasser. I just don't think I could justify spending $4-5k on a light duty diesel. The Cummins makes spending that $4-5k an easy sell.



I sure hope that day never happens though.

 

[Big MAK]

If Cummins was developing a V6 for the Durango it's because they needed to make it smaller to fit under the hood and has nothing to do with the I not being better then the V; that's a fact (I is better). Simple study of torsional forces tells you that (basic physics).



A medium duty engine is better by definition then a light duty engine if you're considering hard use and longevity.



No opinions there; simple facts. And for the record; I think Ford Super Duty is an excellent truck platform. It's too bad Dodge doesn't have a 4500 and/or 5500.



I'll let this post sit for a little while but I do feel it's baiting; so let's everyone keep a cool head.

 

[agoldbach]

Just want the input.. not a conflict!

I appreciate your indulgence with this post. Like I said in the original, my intent isn't to bait. If people get heated, it wasn't my intention. It is my personal belief that those who do no at least aknowledge the presence of competing diesels as legitimate competition to Cummins are being shortsighted. Allow me to furthur clarify my intent. I have family members who refuse to admit that there could possibly be a truck made that is any good which does not have a blue oval on it. I have found this attitude to be extremely frustrating. I am continually impressed with the level of knowledge on compression ignition engines on this roundtable and I wanted to pool all of my fellow TDR members for their expertise. Let me all know what you think. My statement about the Super Duty platform is fromo experience. I owned a 99 Ram and found the fit and finish to be inferior to Fords. Can all of you out there who have owned a G2 and switched to a G3 please weigh in on the new fit and finish of the HD's?

After discussing the issue furthur with my friend, he said that the size and weight issue was the primary reason for the geometry change. I definitly agree with your input about the inline configuration and you are most definitley correct, the physics don't lie. I simply wanted to clarify with my V-6 example that I would like actual factual input to my original question and not an answer like "Because Dodge/Cummins is the best because I said so" . I know that there are those out there who can appreciate all diesel pickups and I want their opinion. The entire reason for this post is that I am stuck dead in the middle of deciding which to buy and I want solid data and not opinion to help me decide. I am confident that you all can help me. Please do not respond negatively to this post because if it gets pulled, I will have lost an invaluable tool in my research! :{ Thanks to all my friends out there who hold Rudolph's invention in a special place in their hearts!

Adam

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

I really wish I could get a new super duty w/a cummins.



They are good lookin', good ridin', long lasting trucks... too bad they lack the power plant of choice.

 

[benhall]

Well, even though I'm overseas right now, here are my two cents worth on what I know and have experienced. I worked at a Ford and Dodge dealership in both the service dept as the shop sweeper and then in the detail department, and my mom works in the front half selling these fine trucks. I talked to all the mechanics quite often, and picked up some good knowledge from them. The biggest complaint from the Dodge guys were the transmission, and nothing but praise for the CTD. The Fords with the PS, loved there's, but were in the shop a lot more for engine problems. I only witnessed the changing of one CTD, and that was from a hog farmer that towed with a 97 CC, at, 4x4. He was pulling a trailer that was grossing out at 47,000 pounds. :--) Then for the PS guys, I would see at least one a month getting pulled to be replaced for many different reasons.



Now if you want the quality of a Ford but the power of a CTD, just go and get a F650 or a F750 that have the CTD's in them.



Why can't DC take the 4 cyl. CTD and put in the Dakota, Durango or Jeep GC, is beyond me, but I'm sure someone is either trying that conversion or has done it and not told anyone.



Well, that was my two cents worth.

 

[agoldbach]

I have had many a night dreaming about that very thing. A Cummins in a Super Duty. That would be more than my sanity could take, let alone if CAT got in on the game! I can't help but get a warmer and fuzzier feeling about the sheer robustness of the Cummins compared to the Navistar. That is the hell that is my dilemma!

 

[benhall]

agoldbach,



The last time I checked, CAT is avaliable in the F650's and F750's too. The above mentioned Ford's have three choices for diesel engines. The PS is standard while the Cat and Cummins are options. There are also at least three different manuals you can choose from too. A 5, 6 and 7 speed and then the only auto is an allison.



Ben

 

[agoldbach]

Pickuptruck.com article on 6.0

Hey all, check out the new article on www.pickuptruck.com. In all fairness though, the Dodge is really not a representative truck of it's class since it only has the 47RE and Standard output Cummins. If only Dodge would have had a comparable auto transmission and the HO, I think it could have been a much better article instead of a Ford advertisement. Also, if you read it, what are they talking about with the SRW 2500 Silverado? It looks like a 3500 DRW to me! Like I said, I love the Super Duty, but the test doesn't represent Dodge well at all. On a different note, the PSD sounds really impressive though!

 

[agoldbach]

Ben,

I should have specified in my post. You are right about the Medium Duty trucks, but I am looking for a light duty. If I could afford a SuperCrewzer, I would take the money and swap a new crate ISB into a 7. 3 L Superduty! Thanks for your input!

Adam

 

[benhall]

Adam,



Will a CTD fit in the engine bay of a 250 or 350? Even if a body lift is all you need, I don't see why it wouldn't work. If height is a problem, add a body lift to make room.



I had a Ford F series, and never agian will I do that.

 

[Rosco]

I personally own a 03' cummins and I believe this engine to be superior to the powerstroke. First of all a diesel option in any of these pickups is not about drag racing each other (although I know it happens often) it's about sheer grunt. The fact that a ford can beat a dodge to 60 mph while there empty should not be a purchasing decision. Purchasing decisions should be engine durability, projected life span, and for those who still do there own wrenching, engine simplicity. Now I have logged just over 1000 miles on my new truck and this truck excels over my 01' 2500 gasser in every catagory. Remember this truck aside from the 47re and 6 speed is a totally new/redesigned animal and given a little road time will definetly outshine superdutys. I will say the ford would be my second choice if dodge for some reason closed up shop.

 

[nickleinonen]

the new gm diesels have egr's iirc . the new ford 6. 0 PSD has an egr... the 03 cummins ho no egr now, i can't wait until i get my early 04 with no egr

 

[RobbyRam]

Our home building company(we've built some homes for Sacramento Kings owners and players) has eight or nine Ford diesels and V10's and only three or four Dodge diesels, one of which is mine. I do not know of the maintenance problems of those other than mine, but I can tell you a fact, that the Fords' doors started rattling after only about a year old, but the Dodges are as tight as when new, three years off the showroom floor!

 

[Boost]

I might consider a 7. 3PSD if they put a better manual trans behind it. I had a 99 PSD with the 6sp and it was the hardest trans to shift that I ever had. Liked the truck hated the transmission. I was a die hard Ford guy and that pos 6sp was what got me in a Cummins. I think the high reving 6. 0 PSD might be rocket empty but a step backwards for heavy haulers/towers. As far as the Duramax, well I cant get passed the aluminum heads and IFS with regards to longevity. Time will tell on that. GM uses the same ZF 6spds. that are behind the PSD. Strike three for the Duramax. Right now if I were forced to buy a new truck and couldnt get a Cummins, the 5. 7 hemi would be hauling me around. Just my opinion of course.



Rob

 

[MMiller]

Well here is my $. 02. I went to John Deere Tech school were in engine class the teachers stood up and said cubic inch for cubic inch a inline produces more torque then a V. That being said if you were buying a 1/2 ford truck several years ago and you could choose between the 300 six to the 302, the six would out torque it any day and ususally get better economy.



Second, what application besides chevy, and ford pickups where does a v8 diesel reside? Cat, Cummins, Detroit, John Deere, International, etc have tried v8 and don't anymore, the inline 6 is the way to go when it is time work. Just look at all the new over the road trucks, ag tractors, bull dozers, loaders, etc,etc. Only do they go to the v design when you have to have HUGE quanities of cubes and hp ie v12, v16, and some space requirements, in the HUGE loaders, dump trucks, and generating stations.



Yes if we are drag racing a v8 with some revs is the answer, but when its time to work its time for a 6 cylinder.



Now my opinion on the truck, there is only one choice for me to get a diesel. Dodge, cummins, 6 spd, 4X4, thats what I would get, no v8, no independent front suspension, no auto, for me its a nobrainer! I don't concern myself with fit and finish, heck I'm still driving a first gen. Its simple, reliable, tuff drivetrain,(I can't even complain about the getrag!) and it pulls alot petter than my newer, lower geared, smaller tired, FORD powerjoke work truck, and it has 60,000 miles less on the odometer. Got to have rpm to get any power, it doesn't pull bottom to top in the prm range like my cummins does. (Obviously no my choice, the boss' boss made that one)



AGAIN THIS IS JUST MY OPINION! and you must remember opinions are like armpits, everyone has them, and some of them stink!!

 

[Badunit]

I've always been partial to inline 6's (gassers) for their low-end torque and natural balance. I rarely ever rev an engine (gasser, that is) past 3500-4000 rpms so I almost never get the full power out of one. So it should come as no surprise to anyone, including my wife, that I have now gravitated toward getting a diesel pickup for the first time and am trading in my gasser (a 2001 Ram) on an '03 Ram. I have nothing against the Power Stoke or the Duramax, they may be fine engines, but I prefer an inline 6 and I trust the Cummins. Engine issues aside, I would have bought a Chevy or Ford if I had liked the design of either one but I think the Chevy feels cheap and I am more comfortable in the Dodge than the Ford (personal opinion). Plus I have not had good experiences with the Ford or Chevy dealers around me; they are arrogant, don't know their own trucks, and seem extra slimy. Might be different elsewhere but that's been my experience here.

 

[sknight]

Two years ago when I started looking for a diesel my first choice was the Ford Crew with a PSD. A ford rep talked me out of it. The rep told me the PSD had a history of problems as the miles accummulated and if I needed the torque for towing, which I did, I would be better of to go with the V10. Since I couldn't afford to keep gas in it, I started looking at the Chevy Duramax and Dodge CTD. I opted for the noiser Dodge for the low end torque, a compromise since I preferred the crew cab. I had no regrets. I just sold my 2001 Ram 2500 and picked up a '03 3500 SRW, exactly what I wanted in the first place. My only gripe is that Dodge waited this long to build one of these.

 

[rmrc]

Cummins, hands down!!!

I've been a Cummins fan ever since I worked on the old Cummins Marine engines back when I was in the service. Some of those engines were left over from WWII and were 'STILL' going strong with proper maintenance.



I do have to admit that if I had a choice, I would rather have a Cummins in a Ford Super Duty body. But being that's not an option,,,, I'll ONLY consider a Dodge/Cummins truck. Where ever Cummins is offered, that's where my purchase and loyalty lies!