6.7 melted piston, 51,000 miles...Fram filter the cause???

[Tuesdak]

I see the piston scuffing, is there any melting on the piston crown? If the crown is melted this points to injectors where just scuffing on the sides means oil failure or overheating and running out of clearance. Therefore I suggest your injectors are fine with the plugged oil cooling nozzle found.

I have always wondered if this type of debris can get through the "bypass" valve on oil filters and plug piston oil cooling nozzles. Not that it would make it through the oil pickup screen and oil pump...

The Orange Can Of Death aka Fram has a reputation for using low quality components like cardboard like endcaps on the filter media and taking out the engines they are supposed to protect. The annoying thing with Fram is poor quality anti-drain back valves that leak and clatter your engine on startup longer than other filters with functional valves. There are several oil filter studies out there. However oil filters change now and then so you have to keep an eye on your favorite brand in case they do something EPIC Fail like the the El-cheepo E-Core AC Delco filter went to. Also don't assume your oil filter brand is ok therefore their fuel filter is also ok as the plastic can Wix fuel filters (Wix makes decent oil filters at least above Fram quality) will leak air and make you walk where a steel can filter won't on Duramax engines.

This study has that cheap AC Delco example where the older studies don't.

It would really impress us if Fram took care of the problem for you without a knock down drag out fight.

Edit: Looking into it deeper: Wix oil filters apparently took out 5.9 engines in the 90's so I see why they are not on the approved list. Apparently Wix is not decent enough and with recent fuel filter failures a brand I will continue to avoid.

 

[BigPapa]

Might I suggest that the possibility of the combination of the "Smarty S-67, with deletes", "pull a trailer with a tractor, the weight is about 10,000#", and "in a hurry", "pouring the fuel to it" without a means of monitoring EGT's, caused the "#6 piston is melted, the connecting rod is blue from the heat on the piston end, and the wrist pin is seized in the piston". The damage may have been exacerbated by the debris found in the engine but possibly not caused by it.

Possibly?

 

[Tuesdak]

Might I suggest that the possibility of the combination of the "Smarty S-67, with deletes", "pull a trailer with a tractor, the weight is about 10,000#", and "in a hurry", "pouring the fuel to it" without a means of monitoring EGT's, caused the "#6 piston is melted, the connecting rod is blue from the heat on the piston end, and the wrist pin is seized in the piston". The damage may have been exacerbated by the debris found in the engine but possibly not caused by it.

Possibly?

Some background to answer the question:

Customer may complain of high oil consumption, grey oil smoke coming out of the exhaust or breather tube, or mechanical knocking. Neoprene compounds used internally in the manufacture of oil filters not recommended by DaimlerChrysler may separate from the filter, lodge in the piston cooling nozzle, and can fail the engine.
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2001/09-004-01.htm

Prefilling oil filters where some of the warning comes from... Not something I would do from the back of a dusty lube truck in the field...
https://www.turbodieselregister.com...An-Oil-Filter-Can-Be-Dangerous-To-Your-Engine

 

[BigPapa]

Yeah, I've been around long enough to have seen the oil filter issues.

Just seems strange the OP sees nothing wrong with a programmer, engine mods, towing 10K# while "pouring the fuel to it" with no way to monitor whats going on. I've seen a lot more burnt #6 pistons caused by this than I have an oil filter.

 

[Tuesdak]

I see what you are asking now.

Yes, pushing the engine requires everything in working order. Tuners of course help look for the weak link. On the flip side having less exhaust restriction via deletes could have helped by allowing more heat out of the engine.

I wonder if there had ever been UOA done on this engine? And would it matter if a restricted cooling nozzle is burning up the oil on only one cylinder?

 

[mwilson]

What was the material clogging the cooling nozzle??? More rubber or something else??

I can't help but wonder why the #6 rod bearing didn't suffer more damage if it wasn't getting enough oil??? If it had transferred material to the crank then yes, the galley was plugged. Where it did not do so I am kinda' starting to entertain the Big Papa way of thinking.

The bulletin referenced above is from 2001. The problem was addressed.

I have told you all before that we sell Fram, customers demand that we offer these along with the Fleetguard, Cat, Donaldson and Detroit Diesel filters from the OEM's. Some customers want the OEM, others are quite content paying a little less and getting a Fram.

I am in my 19th year with this dealership and I have only seen one Fram issue ever (and it was NOT on a Cummins). I directed the customer to the Fram helpline and NEVER heard another word about it.
Irving Oil is a huge fuel and oil supplier here in the tri-state area. They ran "B" series Cummins engines for years on Fram filters with zero issues. These are not weekend horse-haulers or toys, they are oil delivery units with PTO set-ups for oil and propane delivery. In the winter they run steady. Overloaded, in the cold, huge idle and PTO times accumulate.
If the post 2001 Fram filters were junk I would know about it. There would have been a failure.

Now I just looked at my 5 store history for grins, I have sold (92) PH3976AFP Fram filters in a year. If the Frams are junk I should have dead "B" series laying around everywhere and customers just screaming. That is not the case so far.

I am not a member of the Fram fan club but I do not like to see something go under a bus without some proof first. It gives the whole thing a kinda' witch hunt vibe without it.....

I am sorry that the OP had this kind of trouble but I really don't know if the filter caused it. No Pyrometer and pushing it may be the trouble. I know that my '06 would dribble piston juice out the tail pipe if I let it keep pulling without watching the EGT. It builds heat fast.

JMHO>

Mike.

 

[Wayne M.]

I'm not a diesel hot Rodder, but I know a melted/ melting piston when I see one. I said he was lucky. Lucky he didn't wind up with a sleeve.
Mike I agree with your Fram theory. I wonder if the fram that's stocked commercially is of the same stock as Walmart frams? Kinda like comparing a Home Depot Deere (or other brand name item) to a similar model Deere dealer Deere. I still wouldn't put a fram on my truck no matter where it came from.

 

[fireplanner]

To answer a few of the questions, no melting on top of the piston, all the heat damage appears on the skirt and bottom, even though I don't have any way to watch my EGT, if it was injector or too much fuel related i feel the heat damage would be from the top down. I don't see how the top could be in this good of a condition if it were heat. This leads me to no oil cooling from the bottom. I don't have any remnants from the oil cooling nozzle, it either fell out or it wasn't originally noticed on the rebuild. The size of these rubber pieces couldn't have come from the pan, they are too big to get through the pickup screen, and i don't necessarily believe the oil filter failed, I believe this is scrap that made it into the filter from the factory......Maybe we should all turn them upside down and shake them before they go on the engine from now on....

 

[fireplanner]

Does anyone know of a "filter expert" in these forums, that would comment on this?

 

[Wayne M.]

The cooling jet is MIA?

 

[fireplanner]

I hadn’t looked closely at the filter until this afternoon....been waiting for the rest of the oil to drain..... whatever it is, its still in the top of the filter

 

[fireplanner]

Another thing to note, i went a bought 2 other identical filters today.... THE DESIGN HAS CHANGED! I can only guess Fram had an issue with this one???

 

[fireplanner]

I was going to cut one of the new ones open, not sure i need to at this point, all i would see is the new design

 

[Wayne M.]

Where's the seal?

 

[fireplanner]

It stuck to the block, i have it

 

[mwilson]

I think that material is on the return side, I believe it sucks from the center if I recall correctly.

Regardless, call Fram in the morning, and they will give you a phone number to call. Don't cut it open or anything, just leave it like that for now.

 

[mwilson]

Is there any chance that an o-ring or something from the delete process could have found it's way into an oil gallery??? I have never performed a delete so just asking.

 

[fireplanner]

No, this is much bigger than an o-ring, And the deletes are mostly block off plates. I did find a google search for a Fram PH3976A cut open and that one shows a rubber gasket or hose or something thats at the top of that filter. On closer inspection of mine, that rubber piece has totally come apart and the filter is useless, the oil can run from the center to the outer holes without passing through any filter media. That was another question for someone that knows, the suction and discharge on these, center or outer holes?

I have contacted Fram today and awaiting a call back.....

 

[Bob4x4]

There was a good number of many aftermarket oil filters failing on the vp trucks.Initially Dodge was footing the bill as the number increased things changed.The filter companies started paying up.Theychanged part numbers to show the improved design.The seal between the base and media was coming apart and plugging the piston cooling jets

 

[Wayne M.]

I'm pretty sure the flow is in the outer and discharge in the middle.