Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) 6speed, 5speed, dodge auto or allison auto....

[Morphious]

The 5speed in the Dog is starting to show signs of being worn out... Grinding alot into third, making all kinds of noise, not wanting to sync up on shifts, etc... . Plus the Luk clutch is slipping pretty good now.



Since I need to replace both, I am at a quandry... .



I am planning future modifications out, and want a system that will be able to handle the abuse of the added horsepower.



If I stick with a standard, I will be going with a dual disc setup from either Southbend or one of the others.



Price wise, the 5 speed route will be cheapest, 1500 for a clutch and 1100 for a full rebuilt transmission.



6speed option, 1500 for a clutch, 2800 for the transmission (I believe that is what it will cost). and will require modifying mounting points, driveshafts, etc. .



A full rebuilt dodge transmission with ATS stuff put into it is around 3200 I believe and will require different braces, etc...



The biggie, is stuffing an allison auto into the truck, I know that the computers aren't compatible with each other, but what would it take to get it there? Or would I have to go with the non computer one? I know that 5. 9's are being mated with the allison, but which allison... .



Thanks in advance for the responses... .



Morph.

 

[Roger rodbolt]

Morphious,

Although I don't think the 5speed is a bad transmission, I did convert one truck to a six speed. At first I was unsure that I did the right thing and then I realized that the gear spacing was so close you need to drive it like my old tandem tow truck that had a 5 speed with a 4 speed auxiliary. The gear ratios are so close that you don't need to completely let off the accelerator to shift. If you let rpm fall like on a 5 speed, the synchro's have to spin the trans up to complete the shift.



I drive a my 5 speed and 6 speed truck everyday, sometimes both in the same day and now I much prefer the six speed. The reason that I posted was that if you are in the market for a NV5600, there is a NEW trans listed in the TDR classified for $22XX. 00 if I remember correctly. I wouldn't convert a truck to an auto but if I was going to upgrade one, I'd buy the ATS over the Allison for our application. What are you using your truck for? Larry

 

[rrausch]

ATS has put Allisons in Dodges. They had a re-built Allison in their showroom in April when I was there. Don't know which Allison it is, if it is still there, and don't know the compatability. But do you really need an Allison? If you want to go with an automatic just put the ATS in. It will handle anything you can throw at it.

Where are you located?

 

[Morphious]

Currently, I use the truck as a daily commuter back and forth to work... . I also use it on my farm back home and can pull loads upwards of 25,000+lbs. That is why I bought a standard in the first place. The only reason I am considering an auto is the lazieness factor, I was stuck in a traffic jam this weekend outside of Agusta Georgia for an hour and a half of 1mph driving (leg was very tired after that... . ). I do alot of cross country driving anymore as I hate flying. This past weekend I drove 2600 miles to move my things out to Charleston, SC where I am working now. I am really leaning towards the 6 speed. I have driven them and like the gear spacing much better than my 5 speed. I am not an auto person, but I like the allison automatics in the trucks that I have driven with one. The dodge automatic, I have no experience with, other than what I know from here.



Morph.

 

[rrausch]

Well if you're ever in So. Cal. , e-mail me and I'll take you for a ride in my truck. You can see just how good this ATS is.

 

[tgbol]

The earlier Allison 500 series are not electronic controlled. With a 4x4 though you will need to use a divorced transfer case. Allison makes a transmission with a built in drop for 4x4. It doesn't have 2 speeds but it does add a 7th gear to the 6 speed.

 

[Roger rodbolt]

Originally posted by tgbol

The earlier Allison 500 series are not electronic controlled. With a 4x4 though you will need to use a divorced transfer case. Allison makes a transmission with a built in drop for 4x4. It doesn't have 2 speeds but it does add a 7th gear to the 6 speed.

tgbol,

Thanks for the Allison info. Does the 7speed have two overdrives? What is the overdrive ratio on the 500 seris and the 7speed? A seven speed with double overdrive would be sweet!

 

[Morphious]

Any product numbers on that 7 speed?

 

[tgbol]

I have some model numbers and ratios at work. But due to a crazy day I forgot to look at them before I came home. If I remember right it has a lower 1st and only 1 od.

 

[Speedo]

The 7-speed Allison

The model number of the Allison with the drop box is a MD3070PT

it uses a torque proportioning differential in the drop box(t-case)

and is mounted to a MD 3000 series six speed World Transmission

These transmissions are fully electronic and can be used on a

mechanical engine, they can be used "stand alone". The top 2

gears are overdriven and the low gear is obtained through a

1. 2:1 reduction in the drop box in 1st gear. This is a bigger transmission

than the 5 speed used in the Chevy/GMC with the Duramax.

This transmission has no provision for Park. Maximum torque input

rating for an emergency vehicle is 875 lb. ft. and 300 hp.



Gus

 

[w-cummins]

Re: The 7-speed Allison

Originally posted by Speedo

The model number of the Allison with the drop box is a MD3070PT

it uses a torque proportioning differential in the drop box(t-case)

and is mounted to a MD 3000 series six speed World Transmission

These transmissions are fully electronic and can be used on a

mechanical engine, they can be used "stand alone". The top 2

gears are overdriven and the low gear is obtained through a

1. 2:1 reduction in the drop box in 1st gear. This is a bigger transmission

than the 5 speed used in the Chevy/GMC with the Duramax.

This transmission has no provision for Park. Maximum torque input

rating for an emergency vehicle is 875 lb. ft. and 300 hp.



Gus

Yep and it's HUGE and weighs allmost as much as the Cummins!

I have wanted to put a 3060 behind my Cummins conversion for years (sence I first saw one). Only problem is that from what I can see ( other than the $9k price tag new and NO cheep used models any place in the country!) was that after talking to the Alison design people they told me that it would shift VERY VERY hard in my application like BAM BAM every time it shifted!



William... .

 

[Speedo]

MD3060

The MD3060 has been used behind the 5. 9 in motor home

applications and the dry weight is listed as 535 lbs. I don't

have the dry weight of the MD3070 but you can bet that it

is going to be a couple hundred more than that.



Gus

 

[tgbol]

The Allison MD3070PT has two overdrives but they both are lower than the other Allisons. The drop box lowers all of the ratios by 1. 20 and also adds the low gear. There is a differential in the drop box that is manually lockable. I was checking out the tech manuals that one of my techs brought back from Allison school last week and the MD3070PT was not listed as current although service parts are still available.

MD3070PT

L=6. 933, 1=4. 18, 2=2. 24, 3=1. 69, 4=1. 20, 5=0. 90, 6=0. 78 R=6. 03

MD3060 and most others

1=3. 49 2=1. 86 3=1. 41 4=1. 00 5=0. 75 6=0. 65 R=5. 03



Size MD3060 MD3070PT

weight 535 lbs 1170 lbs

length 33. 2 in 50. 9 in

depth 12. 8 in 21. 9 in

 

[w-cummins]

Originally posted by tgbol Size MD3060 MD3070PT

weight 535 lbs 1170 lbs

length 33. 2 in 50. 9 in

depth 12. 8 in 21. 9 in [/B]

So Dam I was wrong it weighs MORE than the Cummins! And you would have to add the like 10?? gallons of oil too

also, I think the depth is from the crank centerline down isn't

it?? so the thing is like really HUGE!!! At $9k+ for the normal model, the 3070pt must cost $11k+ too.....



William Cummins... .

 

[DT]

The earlier Allison 500 series are not electronic controlled. With a 4x4 though you will need to use a divorced transfer case. Allison makes a transmission with a built in drop for 4x4. It doesn't have 2 speeds but it does add a 7th gear to the 6 speed.

Divorced transercase? Hah!

I have an AT542 behind my 6BDIT Isuzu diesel in my pickup, and I just mounted my transfer case(NP208) to the place where the parking brake mounted. (no parking pawl) I machined the adapter out of aluminum and it is attached the the trans with 4, 1/2" socket head capscrew bolts... I also fabricted the coupling inside. I have been running this setup for almost 3000 miles with no problems yet...

This trans had 44,000 miles on it when I bought it and it came out of a motorhome with a B5. 9 in it...

This trans shifts well, and smart, even though it is mechanically controlled with a TV cable...



go here for a pic of the adapter...



http://www.picturetrail.com/turbokid

 

[tgbol]

DT

Looks really nice. Pretty much a straight forward job. To make the coupler did you use the splined end of a yoke and insert a spud shaft into it? Looks like it should give many miles of service. But I am a stick man. 4 out of 5 of my wife's and my vehicles are sticks. And the only reason the other one isn't is you can't get a stick in the US. We looked into converting it but $4200 was a little steep.

 

[DT]

Yeah, besides also having to machine down the thickness of the flywheel, and make a nose cone sleeve for the torque converter, as well as several other small parts, this job was pretty straightforward... (Although it did take around 5 months... )

I wish I would have taken pictures of the coupler before I installed it, several people have asked me about it... I took the spicer yoke that came with the trans and turned down the flange and faced it off, I then cut the the shaft of the end of an old gm transmission I had laying around that mated with the transfercase, I faced it off and drilled a 1/2 inch hole straight through the middle of it... Got a 4 1/2 inch long nine hard bolt, bolted through the whole thing and into the threaded hole on the back of the allison's shaft, torqued the thing down pretty good, then I welded it all together, using a dial indicator to check it and see which side I needed weld on next, eventually welding the whole thing and also welding from the inside of the splines via a relief groove... overall, It had less than . 010 runout, which is plenty good enough because of the certain amount of slop that the splines allow... When I put it in for permanent, I didn't leave the bolt in, the coupler is allowed to "float" back and forth (1/2 inch maybe) and to "flex" on the splines a little to allow for any irregular runout...



Yeah, I like sticks too, but this truck was already an automatic, this transmission bolted up fairly easy (#3 SAE bell) to the engine, and I got the transmission at a good price. ($95 from a crazy old man. (He must have been, he said if he was selling something for over $100 in that newspaper, the ad cost him, but if it was under that price, the ad was free... )



Well any questions, sorry for the long post...

 

[michaelmurray]

SPEEDO



Do you know what's involved when hooking up the MD30XX transmissions to the Dodge? I have a 2000 model. I wrote an e-mail to a distributer and the response is given below:



"Michael the MD3000MH would meet the specifications of your engine. I do not believe we could build this transmission at this time. Your best bet, since the MD3000MH is a new application, is to purchase a new unit. I do not know if you could integrate this transmission with the vehicle if the transmission in the vehicle is electronic. There are several expenses involve in this procedure. These are approximate prices, the transmission $8,000. 00 to 12,000. 00 depending on whether we can supply a rebuilt or if new is needed, an ECU $2,500. 00 depending on exact calibration, a selector $600. 00, and a throttle position sensor $250. 00. You would have to come up with your own chassis wiring and vehicle interface module. If I can be of further

assistance please feel free to contact me by e-mail or phone at

800-344-0485



X122. Jim Kelly"



I would also think the vehicle speed sensor would need to be known as well so the transmission knows what gear to select. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.



Michael

 

[w-cummins]

Originally posted by michaelmurray

SPEEDO



Do you know what's involved when hooking up the MD30XX transmissions to the Dodge? I have a 2000 model. I wrote an e-mail to a distributer and the response is given below:



"Michael the MD3000MH would meet the specifications of your engine. I do not believe we could build this transmission at this time. Your best bet, since the MD3000MH is a new application, is to purchase a new unit. I do not know if you could integrate this transmission with the vehicle if the transmission in the vehicle is electronic. There are several expenses involve in this procedure. These are approximate prices, the transmission $8,000. 00 to 12,000. 00 depending on whether we can supply a rebuilt or if new is needed, an ECU $2,500. 00 depending on exact calibration, a selector $600. 00, and a throttle position sensor $250. 00. You would have to come up with your own chassis wiring and vehicle interface module. If I can be of further

assistance please feel free to contact me by e-mail or phone at

800-344-0485



X122. Jim Kelly"



I would also think the vehicle speed sensor would need to be known as well so the transmission knows what gear to select. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.



Michael

You would need the trany ECU, the control unit, the speed sensor and a LARGE cooler with big lines. Then you need the correct torque converter, the correct flex plate, a SAE #2 housing, a transmission yoke to hook up the drive line ( a parking brake might be nice too as they lack a park paw) then you will need to cut out the floor of the truck big time amd make a new trany tunnel to replace the huge cutout of the floor. then you will have to fab a new cross member... . When your all done you will have a transmission that shifts very hard with the light weight of you truck unless your hauling 20k+ all the time... .



BTW you can get a rebuild for way less than 8k but you need a core!

 

[Speedo]

Allison MD 30XX

Behind a 5. 9 Cummins this transmission would be almost bullet proof,

it is also available with an output retarder that makes it needless

to have an exhaust brake. The cooler lines we use are -32s on a

transmission derived from the 3000 series. The shifts in a vehicle as

light as a pickup would be more violent than harsh. We have had

a once in a while problem with the 2-1 shift schedule in a 25,000

pound vehicle that almost causes lip contact with the windshield,

in a 7,000 pound pickup a 5-point harness might be required. This

is a serious transmission and unless you are pulling heavy all the time

I wouldn't even consider it.

If it is something that you absolutely have to have see the post

that w-cummins made on this thread.



Gus