A Diesel Is Not Worth It!

[RMalone]

I tow my boat about 4 times per year and my lawn-mower about 20 times per year, I bought my truck for one reason. I WANTED IT!! I get the question all the time, "why do you need a diesel", answer "it sounds cool, next question". I like it, but the truck, not the engine, does have several issues, u-joints in particular, and a drivers door that flaps in the wind at free-way speeds. Of course these could also be problems in a hemi-dodge also. If it werent for Cummins there is no way in hell I would EVER drive a Dodge.

 

[AKaiser]

If it werent for Cummins there is no way in hell I would EVER drive a Dodge.

I must just be a diehard Dodge man. I do know this: it's a darn good thing Dodge still exists. I don't know what I would drive if they went away. Can't stand Chevies, and Ford diesels... well, you know the rest of the story. IMHO, the 6. 0 PowerStroke problems are at least 50% Ford created. You never hear about problems with the International V365 engine which it's based on.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

... You never hear about problems with the International V365 engine which it's based on.

Well, in all fairness, you naturally WOULDN'T - unless you were on an agricultural board, where those engines are used in farm equipment...

 

[jgillott]

I must just be a diehard Dodge man. I do know this: it's a darn good thing Dodge still exists. I don't know what I would drive if they went away. Can't stand Chevies, and Ford diesels... well, you know the rest of the story. IMHO, the 6. 0 PowerStroke problems are at least 50% Ford created. You never hear about problems with the International V365 engine which it's based on.

We had 25 2005 Medium Duty Internationals at work with the VT-365. We're down to 12 now in their original configurations. Some have been bought back, some engine replacements, too many turbos, head gaskets, and EGR coolers to list at this point.



Back to the topic..... my wife and I were considering purchasing another diesel when she bought her truck in '05. We ended up with a Chevy Gasser instead. The truck has never towed or hauled in the 2+years we've had it. All in all, a good decision for us.

 

[betterthanstock]

I think you have spent far more on customization than you have on the diesel option.

Even with diesel a little higher priced, you still don't spend more on fuel than a gasser.



You still have higher blue book than a hemi.



Why don't you swap trucks with a guy with a hemi for a couple of weeks. There are plenty who wish they'd bought a diesel. Call your insurance agents, and make it legal in case something happens.

 

[chwhit]

My buddy has been thinking about getting a diesel and trading his 4. 6l gasser ford to tow a trailer, he wanted to know if it would be cost effective. We both hand calculated our mileage over about 300 miles and to operate the diesel it was three cents cheaper per mile and diesel fuel was over twenty cents more per gallon. I have owned both diesel and gas pickups and will never trade diesel for gasoline. I only tow about 20 times a year, tops, and a gasser could possibly do the job but I don't want anything to do with one after towing with a cummins, and they do great on the long hauls to work everyday too.

 

[rbattelle]

Is changing 3 gallons of oil worth it. Or changing my fuel filter every 5000 miles so my high pressure injectors don't fail worth it? How about diesel being the most expensive fuel for the last 3 or 4 years? Not to mention the $5000 upgrade cost when you purchase the diesel over the Hemi. Plus I have to add 10 o. z. of fuel additive every time I fill up so my injectors don't fail.

You make some excellent points. Since owning a diesel, I've come to suspect that unless you run lots of miles loaded, the diesel option will never pay off. Fuel savings are only part of the equation - filters and oil are also much more expensive on the diesel.

Over many miles with big loads the diesel option is obviously superior, otherwise railroads and trucking companies wouldn't use them.

However, there are some of us that just like diesels, like me. Look at that on paper, financially, and it is really stupid. Kinda of hobby, like a lot of guys here. For a lot of use a diesel has intrinsic value.

Amen! Hobbies usually don't make any financial sense at all. It's something you do because it gives you a little bit of happiness.

Shoot, if I had the option I might have bought a diesel locomotive instead of my truck. The downside is I'd either have to learn to lay track, or have a long walk from where I "park" the train to where I work.

Ryan

 

[Giachino]

I dont need a diesel as i dont tow... . but i wanted a truck that got good mileage (my last 5. 9l gasser got 10mpg)... and would last longer that 150k miles (w/o motor rebuild)... . i'll keep my truck for 8 years or whenever it falls apart... . my 96 lasted 7 years, but then i lost confidence that the motor was going to go any further than 150k... rest of the truck was in good condition... . plus the upside of mild perf upgrades are awesome... .

 

[mwhals]

I did a calculation and found a 6 cylinder Toyota Tacoma would save only $30 every 6 weeks on fuel over my 7500 pound truck. I would take my truck in a heartbeat!

 

[BEvens]

Will my next truck be a Hemi or Vortec? Ok, so I've had an 03 and an 04. 5. My 03 would get over 20mpg. I loved it. Unfortunately some dick ruined it by not properly installing aftermarket injectors. Read my posts to see who. I remember the day when I could drive over 600 miles on one tank of gas. Now my 04. 5 gets 16 or17. Dodge even took the power lumbar support out of my 04. 5 to save a buck, what cheap *** bureaucrats! Why are we buying diesels? Sure, you can plug in 200 hp in a couple of minutes. Is changing 3 gallons of oil worth it. Or changing my fuel filter every 5000 miles so my high pressure injectors don't fail worth it? How about diesel being the most expensive fuel for the last 3 or 4 years? Not to mention the $5000 upgrade cost when you purchase the diesel over the Hemi. This is definately the most expensive truck I've ever been suckered into. Their accountants have the cost of a vehicle per year on all kinds of graphing software, and I'm sure the diesel is not a winner. What about the turbo lag and drivability? Sure, they're quick, but your not going to leave a Hemi by any means, unless you have a few grand under the hood. Plus I have to add 10 o. z. of fuel additive every time I fill up so my injectors don't fail. A pain in the *** as far as I'm concerned, and gassers are so much more responsive! If I want to make a left hand turn forget it until the light is yellow cause by the time the turbo gets spooled your gonna be broadsided. Anyone else?

What??? Lets see, 1/2 ton chev Z71 97 12MPG empty 7 mpg towing. Oil change every 3-4,000 miles.

06 Cummins 3/4 ton 19 avg empty 12 towing, My thought I can pay . 80 cents more per gal of diesel and still come out, now 7,500-10,000 miles between oil changes, I had the oil changed at the dealer last weekend and I paid $59. 00. No loss there! Now look at the fact that I am now driving a 3/4 instead of a half ton, the $5,000. 00 up charge for the diesel upgrade correct me if I am wrong there is a better return on resale if I do not decide to drive it 300,000 miles and oh still sell it for more the a gasser with the same milage, that is if the gasser has not been reborn as a cummins!

 

[JVantreese]

I don't tow often. I don't use my truck as a daily driver. I just wanted one and still get a smile when I can find a reason to drive it. :-laf

 

[jltcasper3]

Real trucks don't have spark plugs.

I will never own anything but a diesel ever again, why, just cuz.

 

[TX Gooseneck]

I average 125k/yr in my daily, and my haul trucks see more than that. For me there is no option like a diesel. My 04. 5 has just shy of 300k on it. Don't see a hemi doing that while pushing over 500rwhp and hauling over 25k religiously.



My WS6 is fun for a gasser

 

[AKaiser]

Well, in all fairness, you naturally WOULDN'T - unless you were on an agricultural board, where those engines are used in farm equipment...

I don't think those V motors are used in farm equipment. Mostly just MD trucks and busses. I don't know of any farm equipment with an International engine since Tenneco bought IHC ag division in the early 80s. Not saying there haven't been, just don't know of any. The new design tractors brought out in the late 80s had IHC transmissions and C8. 3 blocks in them. The last large IHC tractors had DT466/414/408/360/312 etc in them (I-6).



Only V motor I know of that IHC used in a tractor in my lifetime (72 to present) was in the 68 series (1468/1568) and they were problematic at best. Part of the problem was the mechanical system used to shut down cylinders under no load. We had one on loan, and it bought the farm.

 

[AKaiser]

We had 25 2005 Medium Duty Internationals at work with the VT-365. We're down to 12 now in their original configurations. Some have been bought back, some engine replacements, too many turbos, head gaskets, and EGR coolers to list at this point.

Now you tell us. OK, now we've heard it. :-laf

 

[RJOL]

I'm still getting 21 MPG

Ken... If it wasn't you, making this claim, I'd wave the BS flag if this is your overall average mpg. My 2005 3500 dually has just under 19K on the clock and I've kept track of every gallon of diesel I've put into it. I use my truck for mainly in-town stop and go, with trailer tows 10-12 times a year. I have the G56 6 speed and I don't floor it every time I leave a stop. I have averaged exactly 13. 49 mpg over the 19K. The best mpg I ever got was just over 17 mpg on a solo trip, keeping the speed below 63 mph. I still like this truck and would have nothing else to pull my 31' 5th wheel, but now I park it most of the time and take my little foreign piece of cr** for running around town.

 

[ChrisOlson]

I will add my jibberish here, There is an old saying if I have to explain it to you you just aint gonna understand, having said that, if "Chriskringle" does not get it he never will, I have had my issues with my 2nd gen and have thought about trading up to a 3rd gen, and even after riding in my friends Dmax even briefly thought about the crossover to chevy Briefly i said! then i go home and start the mighty cummins and go race some ricer and blow his doors off. my favorite sound is the lockup/boost drop sound as the boost builds after lockup. at that point it is all about the torque. the other time is going up a grade pulling 10000 lbs with nothing but boost 25 30 lbs no passing gear no drop down that cummins showing nothing but power. As far as milage around town 13-15 and that is with a heavy foot at 8000 lbs, the wifes gas liberty driven by a little lovley lady very conservatively gets 16 in town, on the hwy unloaded big dodge 19-21mpg loaded with that 10000 lbs 14-16 mpg at a steady 65, liberty driven by the little lovley lady on the highway 20mpg at 70 mph. I will take my big dodge any day

Chris

 

[JMoberly]

If you shop around you can get the diesel truck for a great price. Of course not as low as the gasser but you can get 20-25% off msrp which takes a bite out of the premium for the diesel option.



Diesel fuel right now costs a little more but I get 18mpg on the highway vs. 13-14 in the hemi so I come out ahead on that.



You complain about the amount of oil... have you changed the oil on a hemi? It takes 7 quarts. Thats still not a small amount of oil. Also you should change the oil more frequently in the hemi.



I guess what i'm saying is there is no way the hemi in one of the heavy duty trucks is worth it. I love it in the 1500 but it is more for play then work.

 

[MSLiechty]

I did a calculation and found a 6 cylinder Toyota Tacoma would save only $30 every 6 weeks on fuel over my 7500 pound truck. I would take my truck in a heartbeat!

and my money on the 7500 lb truck should you ever get in an accident.





Michael

 

[DocDetonancour]

I too prefer the diesel. My son has a 98 CTD with 150K trouble free miles. Had he bought the gasser, what wouldit be worth today. I DON"T like paying . 30 to 40 cents over reg gas. What is the reason???? Doc