A Pristine Pestilence

[Champane Flight]

Exploration

Exploration is one of the fastest ways oil companys can make money. You don't make any money on a dry hole,but you don't loose a lot either. The oil company I work for would go to all exploration if they could. By the way they have big holdings on the north slope... .

 

[SLittle]

Explain to me how an oil company makes money doing exploration. To me, exploration means lots of money spent looking for oil and lots of money spent drilling potential areas that may result in dry holes. I see lots of money spent with no income, that's losing money.



Sure, the costs, the dry holes etc are write off's but write off's don't create profit. The highest corporate tax rate is 38%, $1 spent on exploration saves . 38¢ in tax, not much of a bargain.



This isn't meant to be a flame, I'm just trying to understand where the profits come from.



Scott

 

[wrward]

Like everybody else I have an as***** errr, opinion.

I grew up in Alaska, watched the country go from a prestine paradise to a poluted slum.

It isn't the oil exploration and recovery that ruined the State.

That comes with our petro dependant society.

What screwed the paradise was the lack of concern for the after products of the drilling.

The Kenai peninsula is now a polluted mess because of the settling ponds the oil companies left behind or buried instead of cleaning up like they said they would when they lobbied for permission to explore.

Go ahead and explore, but like my dad taught us, clean up your damn mess.

That would eat into the oil companies obscene profits though.

Opinion.

 

[FATCAT]

When did making a Profit become a bad thing? I thought that was one of the things that made this country great? The ability to make a profit without the Gov't dictating every move you make and then handing over everything.

Folks are making it sound like if drilling were to occur, it would be like a 20 mega-ton H-bomb went off up there.

All I know is when fuel is 6, 7, or more dollars a gallon and there is no alternative (and there isn't anything else on the horizon), people won't give a rats ass about the wildlife in Alaska, or the

east/west/south coasts. All we'll care about is GET ME MY OIL ... that will be reality.

 

[rich m]

Re: Exploration

Originally posted by Champane Flight

Exploration is one of the fastest ways oil companys can make money. You don't make any money on a dry hole,but you don't loose a lot either.

Last estimate that I heard, in terms of oil drilling, is that a rig and crew spend/cost about $50,000/hour. That's whether the drill is running or not, whether you strike oil or not. or whether the stem is broken and the majority of the crew is awaiting bit/stem recovery, or not.

$50K/hour x 7 days = $8. 4M/week... . gee, 10Million here, 10million there, pretty soon you're talking some serious money... . dry holes do cost! Weak holes (find oil but not enough to return the investment) also cost.



Exploration doesn't generate revenue. Discovery sometimes generates revenue. As was pointed out above, a tax write-off is not a source of profit, it's only a reduction of the pain. A lost dollar's investment causes a 38-cent reduction in taxation. Guess what? That dollar's still gone, and a new one isn't issued to replace it.

 

[Champane Flight]

Billions

Lets see,the company I work for made 240Billion last quarter. It is presently drilling on several fronts,Venesuela,China,North sea,North slope,Gulf off shore,and Australia!Not to mention several lower 48 holdings.



We have enough oil in the ground right here in the US to be able to end all foreign oil imports at any time. Many large feilds are lying capped. There are several oil companys with holdings and income from the middle east. All we ever hear and see are a bunch of Arabs(OPEC) justifying a hike or drop in there production. We don't see our boys in the back room cheering them on. Why do you think we went to Kuwait?OIL!Why do you think it took us so long to go over to Bosnia?NO oil... Of course that is another sore spot. We would rather burn their oil than ours). Then when their out our oil companys can really start useing the vaseline!

 

[radixr]

Re: Billions

Originally posted by Champane Flight

Lets see,the company I work for made 240Billion last quarter. It is presently drilling on several fronts,Venesuela,China,North sea,North slope,Gulf off shore,and Australia!Not to mention several lower 48 holdings.

CF, you have misstated some "facts" again. In 1999, Exxon/Mobil (the world's largest oil company) had total revenue (sales) of $185 billion. That's for the entire year. You have implied that your employer had a profit of $240 billion in one quarter. That is utter nonsense. You are rapidly losing your credibility.

 

[Lhotka]

I would give serious thought to questioning ones credibility unless your standing on solid ground. Radixr, you stated in a previous posting, "the proposed area needed to develop and produce the oil in ANWR is around 2000 acres". That is an outright lie and the oil companies know it. It's nothing but a sales pitch that uninformed people fall for. You've also implied that humans can't even set foot in ANWR. Another outright lie. People live in Arctic Refuge. They hunt, fish, boat, and snowmachine. You can land planes on the refuge's many airstrips. That is far from not setting foot there. So... ... ... . in the future I'd get the facts straight before questioning someone else's "credibility".

 

[wrward]

Thee is also the point that there is a reason there are so many mosquitos, there is no way you can have those hordes without blood, and lots of it. Care to guess where the blood comes from, I know I left a lot there.

 

[Champane Flight]

profit/earnings

I said they made 240 billion. I did not say this was profits/this is earnings... . They are now moving into the USAs second largest oil producer... Profits for last quarter were in the 25-30billion mark.



Radixer, Maybe you could explain the difference between profit and earnings. Along with the tax laws concerning "lost operating revenue". Most large oil producers have a small army of lawyers and accountants to take care of there tax obligations.



The reality is that most who are backing this folly are just spouting their republican rhethoric and can't have an original thought. (Not allowed in that circle)... ... ... .

 

[Power Wagon]

Re: profit/earnings

Originally posted by Champane Flight



The reality is that most who are backing this folly are just spouting their republican rhethoric and can't have an original thought. (Not allowed in that circle)... ... ... .

Not once in my comments have I resorted to partisanship to make my points. That is a cheap shot, to say the least, not to mention untrue.



As far as the size... the 2000 acres IS the proposed legislative move to allow drilling. If someone wants to drill somewhere else besides this small area, then that again, will have to be debated and the wildlife (faux pristine nonsense) vs annihilation argument repeated ad nauseum. Not a soul here can say with even a shred of honesty, that the drilling and moving oil form Prudhoe Bay has been a disaster. On the contrary, the resources to do so have made the area accessible to far more people.



The facts, as I can discern them, are: the arguments against are nothing more than emotional rants, without biology, logic, reason, or even common sense to back them up.



BTW, greetings from Salmon, Idaho. I'm on vacation. Checking in via a friend's computer.



Now, we return to our regularly scheduled rants...

 

[John Berger]

Deal with it

Don't blame Republicans or accuse them of not having an original idea. Republicans won the last election cycle and have earned the right to set policy as they see fit. And they won without having to get dead people to vote more than twice. Now that's an original idea: Dead people are really dead and they can't vote.

 

[radixr]

Re: profit/earnings

Originally posted by Champane Flight

Radixer, Maybe you could explain the difference between profit and earnings. Along with the tax laws concerning "lost operating revenue". Most large oil producers have a small army of lawyers and accountants to take care of there tax obligations.

CF, I don't know where you took your accounting courses, but if you can read, look in the dictionary and you will see profits listed as a synonym for earnngs.



Your claim of $240 billion of sales/earnings/profits/revenue in one quarter for your employer is ludicrous. So is your claim of $25-$30 billion of profits for one quarter. SHOW ME PROOF!!!

 

[Lhotka]

PowerWagon,



Thanks for your OPINION, That's all it is. Two thousand acres may be the size of the development area that is being proposed, but under the pretences that it will impact an area no larger. That's like having an airport 2 blocks away from your home and saying it only impacts the ground it physically covers. Purely nonsense. You don't understand or appreciate the very simple concept that many people value limited preservation over industrial development. Some refer to that as tunnel vision.

 

[merryman]

HURAAAY for profits; with out that motivation, Henry would not have built that first jalopy of his and we would not have these trucks, nor would we have fuel to put in them. Course we wouldn't need them as we would all be living simple 1700 life styles.

Bring on the profits: good things follow.



Well done Power Wagon. Hang in there.



Vaughn

 

[Champane Flight]

Will do.

Radixer,will post the next spread sheet sent to me. It is usually in our quarterly newspaper.



Profits aren't bad,unless you put profits in front of all other living things. Go back to the 1700s,i think not. More to the lines of forward to the 2200s.



I for one could care less who got voted in(it does help to have ones brother in charge of a deciding state)my vote was for the best man,not the party.



This was not a party line flame,but an observation over a period of time.

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by Lhotka

PowerWagon,



Thanks for your OPINION, That's all it is. Two thousand acres may be the size of the development area that is being proposed, but under the pretences that it will impact an area no larger. That's like having an airport 2 blocks away from your home and saying it only impacts the ground it physically covers. Purely nonsense. You don't understand or appreciate the very simple concept that many people value limited preservation over industrial development. Some refer to that as tunnel vision.

Of course it's my OPINION... You are expressing yours as well. But, what I'm asking for is some intellectual honesty. IF this area had never been declared part of some far-off, unseen, and generally obscure wildlife reserve, would you be so totally against drilling there? I doubt it.



So, what is it, then, that congress drawing a line in the swamp does that makes it so "sacred" or "holy" and now so horrible to "defile" (although it doesn't)?



As for the "airport in my backyard" analogy... it's a bit flawed. For instance, it is the size of a couple airports out of an area larger than a lot of states. Also, it's not an airport. It's not going to result in massive activity. It's not going to result in huge human traffic, massive environmental destruction or disturbance. Further, as I said in the first post in this long thread... There's nothing there worth messing with anyway. Thats the funny part of all this: There are things worth saving, and things not. Mosquitoes and the bugs that invade the noses of the caribou... . well, they are not. The Caribou? Sure, but they aren't endangered, and especially not by drilling.



So, what IS endangered? Noone has made a case yet. So far, the arguments are: 1. It will enrich oil companies. 2. It will enrich oil companies. 3. It will enrich oil companies.



I've seen this type of argument before. In fact, I've heard it a lot. The last time I dealt with it, I spanked my younger son for making a similar whine. He has no cause to complain when someone else gets something he doesn't. Nor do we have any cause to complain if someone makes money. Nor is preventing someone else from making money a legitemate reason for anything. Envy is ugly from any angle.

 

[John Berger]

Originally posted by Power Wagon





I've seen this type of argument before. In fact, I've heard it a lot. The last time I dealt with it, I spanked my younger son for making a similar whine. He has no cause to complain when someone else gets something he doesn't. Nor do we have any cause to complain if someone makes money. Nor is preventing someone else from making money a legitemate reason for anything. Envy is ugly from any angle.

Well said and I wholeheartedly concur. Spanking your son reminds me of a parody on Rush Limbaugh's show, where the parents are having a hard time disciplining their kids (they're jabbing knives into the couch and the parents are standing there trying to reason with them, all the while wringing their hands) and a guy from the Oklahoma State Legislature comes in and tells them that it's OK to spank and then proceeds to demonstrate the procedure on the little turd stabbing the couch. Why does it seem that people will believe anything they hear from the talking heads and not bat an eyelash or shake a leg to find out if what they heard was true, while at the same time just about go to arms to chastise and put the screws to anybody that shows an inkling towards being financially successful in this country? A similar argument, also proposed by Rush L. is how irate people get over ATM fees going up 75 cents, but don't bat an eyelash over obscene tax rates. One more thing for those of you who may be tempted to dispute what I say because I reference Rush Limbaugh: I started listening to him in 1990 and the reason I liked him so much was because just about everything he was saying was in agreement with the way I look at life and it's issues. For those of you who may not like him, remember this: It is a dangerous place to reside, where one opinion is paramount and has the effect of law.

 

[Lhotka]

Powerwagon,



Your ignorance of the area and potential impacts of drilling becomes more apparent with each response. Ignorance can be corrected if one is willing to be open minded and REALLY educate themselves about a topic. As far as my analogy goes, it's rock solid and was a response to your claim that only 2000 acres will be effected by drilling. My point being that an airport impacts an area larger than the ground it sits on. Doesn't matter the size of airport or where its located. Some 5 year olds I know can grasp that concept!!



In your last post you referred to the area as a swamp. I lived and traveled in the refuge for many years and never came across one swamp. Could it be that you don't know a thing about the area or its terrain? Ignorance maybe?



In one of your last statements you indicated that, "One has no cause to complain when someone else gets something he doesn't. Nor do we have any cause to complain if someone makes money. Nor is preventing someone else from making money a legitimate reason for anything. Envy is ugly from any angle".



That comment is just so irrational it's not worthy of comment.



Lastly, here is MY reason for not drilling in Arctic Refuge. I am American citizen and part owner of that public land. I want it left alone. The majority will rule!



P. S. Thank God for Senator Jim Jeffords!!

 

[Champane Flight]

Rational

When our dependence on oil overcomes all rational thought ,it becomes a problem. I own stock in said oil company and if it goes up fine. But if someone was to introduce a way to end my dependence on oil forever and garrantee the enviroment will be there for my grandchildren and there children,I would take it in a second... ... Even if it meant saying goodbye to my truck. To squabble over a small amount of oil(even if it was a large amount would only supply a small amount of our needs)is neither here nor there. I am not jealous of the profit of the oil companys(although NO CEO or man is worth 20,000,000 a year). I just don't like to have those billions come out of my pocket!And have the oil companys dictate policy to our goverment and them FOLLOW it ...



I have seen these oil companys at work. I have seen them throw away a $150,000. 00 control valve into a scrap heap. Yet watch them scream about a couple of hours of overtime pay $20. 00! I have seen stuff buried and come to surface years later. Nobody knows nothing!



I like some of the stuff Rush comes up with to. However to agree or to have anyone agree with ALL of it is scary... .....