A V-8 Cummins???

[Buffalo]

I remember talking to the UPS driver after I bought my '91. 5 W-250 because the engine in his truck sounded like a Cummins 5. 9. I asked him if it was & he said he didn't know but, looked around the cab and found a label that said Consolidated Engine. First time I'd ever heard of a Consolidated.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[NIsaacs]

I remember talking to the UPS driver after I bought my '91. 5 W-250 because the engine in his truck sounded like a Cummins 5. 9. I asked him if it was & he said he didn't know but, looked around the cab and found a label that said Consolidated Engine. First time I'd ever heard of a Consolidated.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

When I first started looking at the Cummins 5. 9 for repower in my "74" Ford back in 1989, I did quite a bit of research on it. The way I understand it, the first 5. 9 Consolidated Diesel was SAE standard measure, not metric or turbo'ed. Then Cummins become more involved and made it metric for world wide use.



I also looked at the GM (Detroit) 453T 180hp (I wanted the genuine Jake brake) but they were not certified for on highway use I am sure glad of that or I might'a had one





"NICK"

 

[DieselFiend]

If it ain't broke, why fix it. What good is a V8 Cummins when the 6 works just fine. They're just now working all the bugs out of them.

 

[Byershome]

I have not heard of any plan to replace the straight 6 but rather adding a diesel to the half ton line-up where you have less room to cram that thing in there. I think that would be a big hit if the diesel powered Jeep Liberty is any indication.

 

[Kirwin]

Why switch? I did and I love it!

I don't think it is possible to drop the 4bt into a 1500 truck. First of all the weight is way more than a HEMI, second it is way too tall. You would have to radically change the front end to make it work, and why? If Dodge wanted to stick a turbo four it could use the CRD out of the Liberty. Frankly I cannot believe they are not putting that in Dakota's and Durango's.



The real lure of a v design diesel in smaller applications is the ability to wind it up to a higher RPM. it is a trade off between torque and hp. They do not need as much torque but would love more hp.

I heard this before I converted my 85 Ramcharger to 6BT Cummins power. Every thing from "it won't fit in the engine bay", (dimensions are exactly the same). To "the front end won't hold up under the load of the Cummins", I've got 120K on her since the conversion and so far I haven't even replaced a front wheel bearing. Anything is possible. How much do you want to spend, how fast do you want to go? Now was it an economical decision? Depends on your goal. Not many diesel powered Ramchargers around though! IMHO Ken Irwin

 

[Byershome]

" Not many diesel powered Ramchargers around though!"



I own a 93 and have often thought about it, knowing people have done it. I don't think the demisnsions are the same though, I know for a fact the Ramcharger is different than the half ton pickups (at least in the 93' model). They squeezed one into a dakota (with some small modifications) so anything is possible.

 

[DKarvwnaris]

I heard this before I converted my 85 Ramcharger to 6BT Cummins power. Every thing from "it won't fit in the engine bay", (dimensions are exactly the same). To "the front end won't hold up under the load of the Cummins", I've got 120K on her since the conversion and so far I haven't even replaced a front wheel bearing. Anything is possible. How much do you want to spend, how fast do you want to go? Now was it an economical decision? Depends on your goal. Not many diesel powered Ramchargers around though! IMHO Ken Irwin

If remember right, the 1985 ramchargers used the same wheel bearings that the 3/4 ton trucks did in their front ends. (Much like the GM 1/2 ton and the 3/4 ton. The main difference was the hub's size to allow for a 8 lug bolt pattern for the 3/4 ton wheels)/

The front weight is no different with a cummins installed in it compared to a v-8 combined with a plow blade or winch bumper. Usually lighter. My main concern would be the lower ball joints and crossmember rivets which can be drilled out and replaced with grade 8 bolts if they start loosening up.

 

[Kirwin]

Diesel powered Ramchargers

I can't say about front axle bearing size but the 4X4 diesels all used dana 60 axles. The Ramcharger uses a Dana 44 CAD system. I would not be suprised that the bearings were the same. The frames for the 89 (2wd anyway) truck were the same as my 85 4X4 Ramcharger until you got behind the front seat, then they were different. I know that the holes were present in the frame for the original cross member to be moved back the 6 inches it took to support the longer diesel drive train with the A-518 4 speed auto the wasn't yet available in a 85 model year Ramcharger. The front spring mounts are strong enough to support a snow plow so I don't think a CTD will break the frame any sooner and I got 200K out of the OEM ball joints. As far as weight, I thought the same thing about the truck with a plow, so I ordered a set of new 4X4 Ram 150 snow plow springs and they have worked great. Its not a cheap conversion though if you want it to look right. Ken Irwin

 

[DKarvwnaris]

I can't say about front axle bearing size but the 4X4 diesels all used dana 60 axles. The Ramcharger uses a Dana 44 CAD system. I would not be suprised that the bearings were the same. Its not a cheap conversion though if you want it to look right. Ken Irwin

The Dana 60 axles and the Dana 44 axles varied only slightly in the early 90's. Most of the spindles etc. were duplicates to each other. You will mostly gain the axle shaft spline count and the actual diameter as well as the larger ring and pinion and carrier bearings in the diff itself.



Nothing about a conversion is cheap, but if DC decides to employ a v-8 cummins in their newer trucks, I'll see the cost as well worth it to keep the 5. 9.

 

[Byershome]

The firewall is different which in turn means the power steering booster is different (whether this makes any difference in clearance I don't know)... ... ... ... ... . I know because NAPA had to order it 3 times and the first time they just ordered one for a half ton... ... ... ... . and that ain't gonna work. I had to bring it in so they could physically match it up with the right one.

 

[Kirwin]

Firewall differences

Good point. But I think the firewall differences are minor between the 1985 Ramcharger and the 1989 pickup I had at the time that I used as the template for the conversion. My conversion used the combined vacuum/power steering pump and I used the vacuum brake booster from the Ramcharger. Made sense to use it as I didn't change the axles. It is important for you to be very familiar as to what parts you used from the diesel side of the pickup and what are still Ramcharger specific parts. The firewall is minor compared to the radiator support modifications that I had to make. Ken Irwin

 

[RMachida]

" Not many diesel powered Ramchargers around though!"

In the late 70's early 80's the Ramcharger had a diesel option using a Mitsubishi engine roughly 3. 8 l, non turbo, indirect injection. Commonly sold, back then, as marine engine.

 

[HBarlow]

I wonder if Ford's early experience with the then new Sick. 0 PSD engine in 2003-2004 had anything to do with cancellation of the Navistar V6? Even a big car company like Ford could only stand so much failure, warranty repairs, buy backs, lost customers, lawsuits, and bad press.



Harvey

 

[ACerf]

I wonder if Ford's early experience with the then new Sick. 0 PSD engine in 2003-2004 had anything to do with cancellation of the Navistar V6? Even a big car company like Ford could only stand so much failure, warranty repairs, buy backs, lost customers, lawsuits, and bad press.



Harvey

In my opinion Ford has created their own problems! If you build quality vehicles people will buy them! Toyota and Nissan are great examples of that. Even Hyundai has proven that a company can come back, when you build a great product! I hate to say it, but Ford is looking a make a cheap product and make big profits... the two don't go together! GM is not far behind them if you ask me. If the Toyota or Nissan bring out 3/4 and 1 Ton truck... which I think will not be long coming... the big three will be in BIG trouble! The diesel used in the UD trucks were jointly developed by Toyota & Nissan. And they are great diesels, that go 500K+ without a lick!

 

[CampbellB]

Are you sure IH scraped the V6 project?? The 4. 5 litre V6 Powerstroke is just like the V8 with two cylinders chopped off. It turns out 200 horse and 440 pound-feet of torque. It's available right now at commercial Ford Dealers in the low cab forward cargo haulers.



Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of V engines.

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Are you sure IH scraped the V6 project?? The 4. 5 litre V6 Powerstroke is just like the V8 with two cylinders chopped off. It turns out 200 horse and 440 pound-feet of torque. It's available right now at commercial Ford Dealers in the low cab forward cargo haulers.



Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of V engines.

Its a step up for the cab forward trucks that only had gasoline motors before at least. It will still be hard to compete with the Mitsu and Isuzu models of that market though. I'll pass on them personally as I value my legs too much to risk a wreck in one, I've seen too many of these platformed vehicles in wrecking yards with the headlights pushed behind the drivers seat

 

[blacksheep4x4]

Relax they are not even sure if that is what they want to use. It's just one option the are looking at. More likely they will use the inline-6 Mercedes motor they are also thinking about. Both engines are built in factories that sit side by side in Germany. Alot of technology has changed hands between these two companies. My machinest said that the Mercedes is built stouter than the current cummins and would be a great choice for Dodge.

 

[DKarvwnaris]

I wonder if Ford's early experience with the then new Sick. 0 PSD engine in 2003-2004 had anything to do with cancellation of the Navistar V6? Even a big car company like Ford could only stand so much failure, warranty repairs, buy backs, lost customers, lawsuits, and bad press.



Harvey

I have no sympathy for Ford, they have repeatedly hid from blame everytime something they sub out causes problems. Firestone was thrown to the dogs by them, navistar has been lined up for the same treatment, While the powerstroke has a large following, I seriously doubt Ford would sell another one if consumers were given a choice such as Cummins, Detroit, Cat, or even a few of the Japanese owned products.

(for the record, Diaper Chrysler is not much better than Ford for standing up when they know they've screwed up a production vehicle with their bottom dollar design ideas)

 

[mysteryman]

The ONLY reason v8's and v6's ever cam to be was for the compactness and or the space limitations in the vehicles they were going to be put into !



Every engineer knows that the magic number and layout is 6 in a row or v12

if you want to attain perfect balance... ... .



It is not an opinion . It is a fact... . I could support my claim with a lot of math and geometry but it won't make much sense to most that will read this post... It would also take 2 hours to type it all... .



I will say this however, Have you ever asked yourself why over 90% of the over the road tractors have in line 6 engines in them???? It was not by accident... . The engineers had a reason for building them that way... .



There have been v8 and v6 diesel engines in years past but they mostly fell to the wayside in favor of the inline six... Now why did that happen???

I think the reason for designing V type engines was to save weight and it makes it more compact. It even saves a little weight over the boxer engine design. Everything has a trade off.



I-6 engines are the optimum of design. Less moving parts. Easier to maintain and less costly repair. Less internal dynamic mass. That is why BMW still uses them.



I prefer an I-6 and don't have to worry about this issue because I have one. I would like to see a redesigned head, maybe out of aluminum. As good as the Cummins is, it could always be better.

 

[Jeremiah]

RE Big Engines

I too love my Cummins engine, but I also know a few OTR truckers (18-wheeler rigs) and their engine of choice is NOT a Cummins. This is what makes the world go round, I guess.