About the Getrag

[DR308]

I am a new guy to the TDR. I would like to ask what it is about the Getrag 5sp transmission that is supposed to be so bad? The reason I am asking this is because I have one in my truck with over 200,000 on it, and my son's just went out on his 92 and is now down in my basement after he replaced his with a 4500. And it had about 80,000 LESS miles on it than mine does. If I have this one rebuilt, what could I do to make it as bullet proof a transmission as possible? I have read about adding an extra quart to it. Is that all that can be done to make it better? Thanks for taking your time. ------ The Doc

 

[SRadke]

The Getrags have smaller main bearings than the NV4500. This is the biggest weakness. They were not "bad" transmissions they just couldn't/can't handle the heavy torque loads as well as the NV trans. People who never tow rarely have trouble with them.



-Scott

 

[Stomp]

DR308

I would rather have a bottle in front of me then a frontal lobotomy! :-laf



I think you might want to put your profile where your signature is so that when you post we can see what you have. I should have been more specific.



Now on the getbag. I am now on my second one. I think that since I know a whole lot more from this site it may last a bit longer.



Make sure to drain out the oil and put synthetic in it. That is totally up to you if you want to run synthetic. Next over fill it a quart take the top pto side cover bolt and insert the oil there to get the extra quart in the transmission. Now from what I have heard you don't want to lug it. Keep the RPM's up when both towing and daily driving. This should help preserve the life of the getrag.



Some people have way more miles on there transmission then you do. I am sure that if I left anything out some one else will jump in and straighten both me and you out. You can also search the archives and find a lot of good reading in there concerning the Getrag Transmission.



Stomp

 

[DR308]

OK: I will be looking through the back posts for more info. Thanks for the replies. -------- Doc



I am running all Schaffer syn. in everything. I just love that stuff.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

You might call 800-std-tran since they have a lot of experience with both the Getrag and the NV4500 and can tell you about the weak points and fixes, if available for them. They have a lot of practical experience and are easy to talk with.

 

[DR308]

OK: I will give them a call. What I want to do is rebuild the broke one in my basement, and rat hole it just incase. Thanks----Doc

 

[tugboatphil]

I've never had a Getrag or any other manual transmission on a Dodge. I have read numerous times about removing the top PTO bolt to overfill the transmission. Is it not possible to drill and tap a new fill hole, higher up? Is this a cast cover that can't be drilled? Just wondering.

 

[SRadke]

The trans case is cast iron. It could be drilled anywhere I suppose but I suggest you find a place where it is thicker to prevent it from cracking in the future. Generally when drilling cast iron the manf. will cast a boss into the part than drill that. Also be aware there may be gears and such near the inside wall where you drill and you don't want shavings in there.



-Scott

 

[tugboatphil]

Thanks, Scott.



This is not an issue with my truck, but I thought it might be a possible improvement. I have never had much success drilling or cutting on a cast iron fixture of any type. I usually end up cracking it.

 

[DR308]

YEAH!! Thanks Scott:



I was down looking at it today trying to figure out a better way to add an extra quart to it. I thought of that to Tugboat!!! I am very glad to be on this sight right now, as I was getting ready to try that. Now I won't! Thanks again ------- Doc:--)





PS: Does the KILLER DOWEL PIN pertain to my 93 engine???

 

[KeithTaylor]

Yes, unfortunately the KDP does apply to your '93 - but the fix is not that bad to do!



Keith

 

[MMiller]

The other method is to pull the shifter to add the extra quart of oil. I do it this way. Between the exhaust, frame, front drivehshaft, t-case linkages, its just much easier to pour it in through the top.



My first getrag went out under warranty at about 60,000 miles. Front bearing on the countershaft failed. This getrag has been running well and currently at 210,000. I would have to say life has been rougher on the second getrag. Been running around for quite a while with large tires, more smoke, and lately larger injectors, PLUS I tow heavy, and in overdrive when the truck pulls it right.



Don't lug the truck, let everything spool more especially in towing.



Change the oil often. I run about 10,000 miles a year or so, and change it yearly. As stated above I tow heavy most of the time.



I don't think its bad transmission, just speced too close to what the cummins puts out. Hopefully I can get a 6 speed to put in my truck.



Michael

 

[DR308]

Through the top it is!! Thanks alot for all the help on this one. Next is the KDP fix! Then the extra gauges, Then the----, Then the----, and so on, and so on----. :{ ------ Doc

 

[1stgen4evr]

overfill the getrag

The over fill is not so much "over" as adjusting for the mounting of the transmission in a pretty tail low angle. Get under the truck and look at the way the rear of the transmission is some lower than the front. What you accomplish is getting adequate oil to the front of the transmission. You can put an adequate amount of oil in the transmission if you park the truck where the front is low enough that the rear of the transmission is lower than the front of the transmission. (Or tall lift with a shop air jack on the rear bumper) Also saw a post on parking the truck (in a ditch) where the opposite side is lower and thereby allowing more oil in the regular fill hole. You might want to try those before you pull the shifter to overfill. In some cases the shifter is quite hard to get back in.



There are surely a dozen reasons for getrag failure. I have read most of the recent post on the getrag and talked with several who could give a rebuilders opinion of failures. It is generally opinion that failure seems to be most common with the bearing on the front of the countershaft. Next in line is the failure of the pocket bearing between the input shaft and main shaft. But quite often in my opinion this has resulted from a scuffed gear causing the oil to overheat to the point that it is blown out. I know of one case where the input shaft to countershaft gears where scuffed from a bad pilot bearing. I know of an instance where the pocket bearing was ruined by towing a VERY short distance with the engine stopped. Once the oil is really low and the transmission run on, it is pretty much like reading tea leaves to determine what happened.



On building the one in the basement for a stand by. Look into it and you will certainly see what is glaringly wrong. But look really good for scuffing on any of the gears. I have 'cleaned' some VERY light scuffing off a third gear using an india stone and it is still running.



My transmission has 425k miles and I have had it out three times for service and reshiming. I have spent less that 500 dollars on it total. The bearings are in spec with preload and the gears are mirror bright. My truck is two wheel drive and I don't misstreat it in any but I do tow and run in OD any time the engine can maintain rpms.



As near as I can tell from the posts, the getrag "just ain't got enough ass" to handle fwd and/or young drivers. Combined, it is almost certain to fail at a somewhat lower mileage.



If I had a complete transmission (TWD) that I could rebuild, I would. But my stand by is a second truck.



If it turned out that you only need bearings, it is a very inexpensive repair.



Andy Mikonis is the founding father of the Getrag preservation society.



I am sending you a PM as well.



1stgen4evr

James

Contributing member of the Getrag preservation society. Membership is aquired by way of rebuilding and running your own.

 

[Tim1]

You can install a steel street ell in the hole and a small steel nipple with a cap on it for the overfill. Just run up one side on blocks and fill with a small quart pump from the auto parts store. Very easy and takes about 30 minutes. Don't use brass fittings. Worked well for me!!! Tim

 

[JLEONARD]

You can install a steel street ell in the hole and a small steel nipple with a cap on it for the overfill

Actually one of my goals is to extend this and run a length of hydraulic hose up to the engine compartment somewhere... then make a cap/dipstick so it's easy to check and fill.

But it's one of those "roundtuit" jobs... .

Jay

 

[AMikonis]

Getrag Preservation Society

Yes, I am the founder. James is the technical advisor.



I tried to copyright "GPS" as our logo, but it was already taken.



Andy



P. S. Regarding Getrag bearings being smaller, I believe James discovered they are similar in size to the NV4500.

 

[JLEONARD]

Getrag bearings being smaller, I believe James discovered they are similar in size to the NV4500

Please be careful when you assume that "similar" size means "can support the same load".

Not always true.....

It boils down to actual ball or roller size , width, and number. That determines the load it can handle.

So by observing the bearing OD/ID size may not tell all... .

Similar size bearings may contain different "stuff" inside.

Sorry, enough of that pseudo technical garbage. I'm supposed to be windin' down for vacation today.....

Jay

 

[1stgen4evr]

Size matters?

Yep, I guess it comes down to how you use the size. Having very good result with my little Getrag. I do however own a 4500 and have it apart. There are some things I certainly do like about it. Composite syncros and 50 dollar a gallon compatible lube "ain't one of them". The size of the pocket brg is impressive and the unique make up of the input shaft is interesting.



There is not enough difference to make me change as I am running two wheel drive and the Getrag is adequate for my loads.



What we really need is a transmission that has an od which is not in the main box so that the countershaft is carrying no load in OD, or a twin countershaft transmission with a compound, sized to the Cummins.



1stgen4evr

James

 

[bgilbert]

What we really need is a transmission that has an od which is not in the main box so that the countershaft is carrying no load in OD, or a twin countershaft transmission with a compound, sized to the Cummins.

What would be an example of this? Something thats not used in a pickup?