Here I am

ABS Light On & Unit Buzzing Code P2509

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

Repair transmission cooler line?

Front seat swap

Status
Not open for further replies.
Using the same theory that the tool is only $100, why do all the quality aftermarket tools cost thousand of dollars? Because it isn't just the tool, it is all the R&D it takes to make it work. If it was so easy and inexpensive the aftermarket would not charge what they do.

Look, they develop all that when they BUILD the VEHICLE (actually, one software development covers many different models of vehicles from the OEM). When I BUY said vehicle, a portion of the purchase price has PAID for that software, because it EXISTS BEFORE that car rolls out of assembly. You are not going to convince me it's not a rip off, it is, and I should point out, outside the US tools are much, much cheaper, as are Rx drugs, for similar reasons... The companies have figured out that the US market is willing to grossly overpay for things... and they price accordingly. As to the aftermarket, they have to PAY for the access and rights to use the same software code the OEMs develop, and since the OEMs would prefer to sell it themselves at their ridiculous prices, they don't offer it cheap to the aftermarket, which in turn passes the cost to the consumer… It's really not complicated, but keep in mind, GM, FCA and many other OEMs are selling cars outside the US that run the same software, and overseas access to affordable tool options are available, and likely in part due to the laws in other places..


As I have said over and over, I have no issue with reasonable cost to access the technical information systems, and I'd be happy to pay double the cost of the import stuff, if that were that price.. but $3-$4 THOUSAND dollars for a tool that uses software that is 11 years old, or older.. It is just not reasonable... It just is not and there is not why you can show the math on the COST for this old software that justifies those prices... It is pure rip off massive profit that is in play.


I get it, OEMs are having serious problems with a working business model to make vehicles and obtain a profit. CAFE standards and other regulations and requirements drive up the cost, and they either make high MPG vehicles the people are not buying, at a LOSS, or they pay fines or offsets to Tesla or another car maker that has exceeded its CAFE standards.. This drives up the costs dramatically.. That said it's not a good play to expect people to pay such insane costs on tools, the shops that work on many vehicles and make it work by volume, but not the owner, and I find that to not be a coincidence... ultimately they don't want to offer any access as you noted is a problem with Tesla.. There has also been issues with big modern farm tractors as well, the delays to get a technician and costs are huge for farms, where they could likely do many service items themselves if they had a working computer tool.. You can do some looking up on that issue if you want, and it has led to a market of tools coming from overseas, because there is a demand created there by the OEMs not being reasonable with the customer in the first place.


They should price the car when sold to account for the cost of development of the software and tools used to service that vehicle. Expecting to charge thousands of dollars, and ALSO having expensive subscriptions to access updates for these vehicles is not reasonable when taken together, and hence there have been laws forcing them to make provisions for independent shops and the aftermarket. As I pointed out with my Land Rover, there is a reasonably priced comprehensive computer tool I purchased for it, that is VIN locked, so I can only use it on just that one car, but that keeps the cost reasonable. I can find no such options for US OEMs anywhere (closest thing was AutoEnginuity, which I did buy).. and when I looked recently, I stubled upon what I thought was the VCA OEM tool wiTECH (in everything I read online said it was, and it does have all the markings and functionality, as far as I can tell it is the OEM tool).
 
Add to that the Chinese are not in the least worried about licensing, intellectual rights, or anything else along those lines. They will plagiarize any and all code they can to make a buck, expect the same thing out of the eastern block.

True, and the really ironic thing.. they get access to the code and intellectual property when US OEMs send it to them, so they can make and test the tools at a really low cost.. the US OEMs then take that tool made in China, sometimes slap a sticker or two on it, and maybe even a "Made in USA" sticker, then sell it for thousands of dollars after paying very little for it in the first place.. This is not isolated to these tools, many products follow a similar pattern.. I prefer US origin products, but I'm ticked off when I find out that it's mostly, or at times completely a China product with US marketing, sold at a massive mark-up. I've seen in many times on several products I was looking to buy, in one case identical, but the USA "made" item was double the price, even when it was very clear it was actually made in China. Let me provide some other examples, less known, but a bit revealing. Have you heard of Caterpillar (CAT)? Well a friend of mine went to work there, and guess what... that USA company which makes Diesel engines.... well not a single engine block casting was made in the USA, yep, they were all China castings, then assembled, at times, in the USA.... and guess what, as this is a Cummins forum… Similar story for Cummins. When I was able to buy a ECU that came from China for 1/5 the cost of anything I could find in the US and that is with shipping.. I was not surprised, since it is almost certain that the ECU was originally made in China.

Look, I do see the problems with China, and others, but I also don't support being ripped off. I do want US companies to be profitable, but I don't make enough money to be the basis of their being so... I'm just a middle class guy trying to keep my 11 year old truck alive, because there is NO WAY I can afford a new truck at the current prices. I can't be expected to keep an OEM afloat that has a bad business model, and in many cases WENT TO CHINA to make more money, and exposed themselves to this risk.. because in many cases that is exactly what happened and I can assure you most of these CEOs were WARNED of the danger, they just did not care. Now that it's done, the CEOs have their golden parachutes. I can't now be expected to bear the burden of their poor decisions, besides I DID actually BUY the vehicle already!
 
When basically 50% of all profits for dealerships is via SERVICE, you can bet there is a very STRONG motive to prevent anyone other than the dealership from doing service on their vehicles, and THAT motive makes them come up with INSANE prices for tools.. it's not rocket science to figure this out.


https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/... service and,gross profits, according to NADA.


I do my own service, in part to save money, but also becasue I have frequently had poor service done at dealerships, and it is not isolated to a particular brand. I have had problems with service experiences going back to my first car. Saturn, Dodge, GM, Land Rover, VW.. ALL have failed to provide good customer service in my personal experience.. and thus the other reason I do my own work is because I can assure it is done right, the first time, which ends of saving me time as well in most cases.


Having said that, the Saturn problem was a one off (generally they had excellent service, and way better than any other OEM in my experience, but they are no more), when they installed a hitch on my brand new car... they didn't think it needed to be wired... and when told it was needed, as is typical for a hitch install, they sent a tech to the local auto parts store, bought a universal wiring kit, which was not the issue, the issue was they hacked up the car wiring harness, but stripping the insulation with a knife, then twisting on the bare wires, and covering it with electrical tape! The also left a large open hole from the trunk to the outside, and wires were dangling from the bottom of the car only a few inches off the ground, and loose all over the trunk as well. It was a horrible job, and frankly I did better wiring when I was like 10 years old. Now I will give them some credit, when I complained, the manager wanted to inspect the car, and I said I would bring it, but they would need to pay for my time, and add the driving distance onto my warranty... I was well over an hour drive to get there, one way... I guess he decided it was best to refund the price of the shop hours, and I only paid for the hitch itself, which I accepted.. at that point I was going to fix the wiring and do it right, and now 24 years later my wiring is still sound. Turns out my hitch install was their first and LAST hitch installation!


I could go on and on with stories over the years. As far as I'm concerned, I buy the car, and I should be able to do my own work, in part because often dealerships have a poor track record, I grant some are generally good, so when you find one, definitely reward them for doing it right, but many are not good, and I think you'll find most people have had issues if they have had many interactions with dealerships.


That brings me back to the topic of being ripped off for tools... it’s clear the OEMs aim to protect their dealership networks by forcing you into the dealership for service, and hence put up obstacles to doing your own work, and hence the rip off tool prices.. this is NOT ABOUT protecting their intellectual property, it is about protecting the profit of their dealerships. If the dealerships did great work at a reasonable cost, there would not even be the competitive market for independent shops in the first place, but we all know dealerships are not known to be the best value for service in most cases…
 
I am not a resource for all the ECM talk but I scanned through the threads and have a suggestion. Based on the info in post #28, why don't you order a used ABS module like this:
EBAY: ABS Anti Lock Brake Pump 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 2WD Diesel | P52121408AB 139.00
I had the ABS light on last year, buzzing too. I have 4wD but this unit works fine. Solved my issue. Or the circuit board fixit guys can repair yours. Much cheaper fix to try than purchase expensive scanners.
If I missed something that cancels that solution, sorry. Good luck.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top