-
TDR Magazine subscribers receive more than the magazine! You also gain additional forum privileges!
Details here: TDR Privileges
Subscribe to TDR Magazine here: https://www.tdr-online.com/
Adding extra clutches to a Dana 80 Trac-Lok
- Thread starter tarussell
- Start Date
Attention: TDR Forum Junkies To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.
Thanks, TDR Staff
- Status
Fox What year Manual do you have ? Mine states that all the Dana 80's in the Dodges are stacked like that and the Dana 70's w/ the Power-Lok are stacked the regular way.
This topic cover's any truck with a Dana 80 in it 2500 and all 3500.
In the Spicer service manuals they all state stack them the way in our Service Manuals. I was not trying to emply that Spicer say's do it that way , I was just voicing my opinion on how I think they should be stacked. By no means am I contradicting the folk's at Spicer ; I just wanted to point out what I did to get more grip from the same parts. Thomas
This topic cover's any truck with a Dana 80 in it 2500 and all 3500.
In the Spicer service manuals they all state stack them the way in our Service Manuals. I was not trying to emply that Spicer say's do it that way , I was just voicing my opinion on how I think they should be stacked. By no means am I contradicting the folk's at Spicer ; I just wanted to point out what I did to get more grip from the same parts. Thomas
HMMmmm - that was gonna be my next question - if there is a difference in clutch arrangement right from the factory between the 3500/2500 trucks due to differing traction from dual vs single rear wheels and load ratings... Seems the easiest way is to use the same differential and internal parts, and adjust effective LS action by simply re-arranging the clutch packs - just like Thomas did...
LS setup
Looking at a Spicer Manual for a 60 & 70 Powr- Lok there were
5 different setups for the Powr-Lok with the softest one being
the required one for a front axle LS according to the manual.
Some of the setups used coned clutches and some didn't I
haven't seen a manual for an 80 Trac-Lok so I don't know how
many different setups are possible but I would rather have a
Powr-Lok than a Trac-Lok anyway.
Along the 2500 vs. 3500 setup, I kind of remember seeing that
GM didn't even offer a limited slip for their duallys for a number
of years, could be the same reasoning that the 3500 might have
a looser setup called for.
Gus
Looking at a Spicer Manual for a 60 & 70 Powr- Lok there were
5 different setups for the Powr-Lok with the softest one being
the required one for a front axle LS according to the manual.
Some of the setups used coned clutches and some didn't I
haven't seen a manual for an 80 Trac-Lok so I don't know how
many different setups are possible but I would rather have a
Powr-Lok than a Trac-Lok anyway.
Along the 2500 vs. 3500 setup, I kind of remember seeing that
GM didn't even offer a limited slip for their duallys for a number
of years, could be the same reasoning that the 3500 might have
a looser setup called for.
Gus
I need to check and do some homework.
I am looking at the 2001 service manual, and the heaviest diffs it shows that I assumed were the Dana 80's. Then dropping down a level in the manual to the next set-up they are stacked correctly. So I need to verify where the differences are for the Dana 80, modified 80, and the 70.
My truck has the 70 and I think the eth uses the modified 80 and the dually trucks use the 80.
I will check this , this weekend.
I am looking at the 2001 service manual, and the heaviest diffs it shows that I assumed were the Dana 80's. Then dropping down a level in the manual to the next set-up they are stacked correctly. So I need to verify where the differences are for the Dana 80, modified 80, and the 70.
My truck has the 70 and I think the eth uses the modified 80 and the dually trucks use the 80.
I will check this , this weekend.
Speedo - that's great info ! Could you post the tightest and the softest stack order ? My Service Manual only shows one way and it has only one cone clutch with the rest being flat . I got a Power-Lok for a Dana 60 and I want to know what Spicer say's is the most aggressive way to stack ( I am planning on using all coned clutches and plates ).
About the GM dually stuff ; I had a GMC K-3500 Crew Cab Dually and it had all the H. D. stuff ( 454 / CH-465 / NP-205 / Dana 60 / H. D. Dana 70 w/ 4. 56 gears )and open diffs. - they did not offer it with any kind of L/S , but I could have gotten a lessr GVWR truck with a 14 bolt and a Gov. Lock and 4. 10 gears. I guess GM felt the Power-Lok was to aggressive ?
I did some searching on some Dana offerings on " Ford Industrial " equipment and they offer a " Power - Lok " for the Dana Model 80 also . If this Tac-Lok stuff doesn't work out I want to get one of those Power-Lok's; I agree w/Ya' - the Power-Lok is the way to go if your needing lots of traction .
Fox - In the manual they reffer to the 80 as a 286mm axle and the 70 as a 276mm axle if that helps ? My 2500 w/ an ETH has had the clutches stacked just like a 3500 and also a Ford F-350 dually. I wonder what determines the different stack order ?
Let us know what your Manual say's when Ya' find out .
Thanks ,Thomas
About the GM dually stuff ; I had a GMC K-3500 Crew Cab Dually and it had all the H. D. stuff ( 454 / CH-465 / NP-205 / Dana 60 / H. D. Dana 70 w/ 4. 56 gears )and open diffs. - they did not offer it with any kind of L/S , but I could have gotten a lessr GVWR truck with a 14 bolt and a Gov. Lock and 4. 10 gears. I guess GM felt the Power-Lok was to aggressive ?
I did some searching on some Dana offerings on " Ford Industrial " equipment and they offer a " Power - Lok " for the Dana Model 80 also . If this Tac-Lok stuff doesn't work out I want to get one of those Power-Lok's; I agree w/Ya' - the Power-Lok is the way to go if your needing lots of traction .
Fox - In the manual they reffer to the 80 as a 286mm axle and the 70 as a 276mm axle if that helps ? My 2500 w/ an ETH has had the clutches stacked just like a 3500 and also a Ford F-350 dually. I wonder what determines the different stack order ?
Let us know what your Manual say's when Ya' find out .
Thanks ,Thomas
Steve St.Laurent
Staff Alumni
FYI - some of us lucked out and got power locks with our Dana 80's. I'm one of them and a friend of mine with a 97 also got a power lock. Nothing in the service manual mentions it so I have no idea how that happened but I consider myself very lucky.
Man - o - man I wish I would have gotten one . You guy's are lucky !!!!!!! I am honestly jealous !
Steve If you got a Factory build option spec list ( or what ever it is called ) could you post the option code for your LSD ? I am doing a lot of digging up on Spicer stuff and it might help to know if the option code was different .
TIA , Thomas
I am very happy with my trac-lok but I would have loved a P/L !
Steve If you got a Factory build option spec list ( or what ever it is called ) could you post the option code for your LSD ? I am doing a lot of digging up on Spicer stuff and it might help to know if the option code was different .
TIA , Thomas
I am very happy with my trac-lok but I would have loved a P/L !
Steve St.Laurent
Staff Alumni
Where would I find the build of material #? I'll try to look under the hood tomorrow for the LSD option code. I'm betting it will be the same because the power lock isn't shown at all in either mine or my friends manuals. My guess is that at times they've been unable to get trac locks and substituted the power locks during those times. I have nothing to back that up. I was very surprised when I put my mag-hytec cover on to find it was a power lock in there!
Steve - I'll bet your right about the substitution of the L/S .
The B. O. M. will be in two spots on the axle housing.
The easiest place to look is on the diff. cover- a tag that has your gear ratio usually has the B. O. M. # on it . The # is six digits long than a dash and another digit . ex:606710-4
The other spot is on the passenger side axle tube in the middle facing the rear bumper; it is a stamped set of #'s .
Thanks for your help , Thomas
The B. O. M. will be in two spots on the axle housing.
The easiest place to look is on the diff. cover- a tag that has your gear ratio usually has the B. O. M. # on it . The # is six digits long than a dash and another digit . ex:606710-4
The other spot is on the passenger side axle tube in the middle facing the rear bumper; it is a stamped set of #'s .
Thanks for your help , Thomas
What's the difference between a tracklok and a powerlock? Are they both clutch type? What looks different with the cover off?
Jared
Jared
Jared - Normally the trac-loc is decribed as a 1 piece case and the power-lok is described as the two piece case , but in the Dana 80 the trac-lok is a two piece case design that is very similar to the power-lok .
Yes they are both clutch type L/S's. The T/L uses ( in facrory form according to my Spicer Manual forr the 80 ) 7 plates and 5 disc's and is pre-loaded only by a belvel (sp) dished spring. The power-lok uses 5 plates and 5 disc's each and has the same type belvel dished spring for pre-load and the 4 pinion gears on the cross-shaft put extra pressure on the clutches for greater traction.
The two cross-shaft's on the P/L are cut at a V angle at the case and when enough drive force is generated they ( try ) to walk up the case therefore causing even more pressure on the clutches and plates.
The easiest way to tell the difference between the two is to look at where the cross-shafts meet the case; if it is round all the way around it is a T/L and if it has a " V " shaped cut on one side and round on the opposite side it is a P/L .
There are internal differences but you cant see them unless you tear into the case halves. The P/L is considered the one to have if you want traction.
If I could figure out how to put pictures on this dagum computer I would print out some of the Spicer drawing's of each of the L/S's. I'll work on it . Hope this helps , Thomas
P. S.
When talking about the # of plates and clutches, it is for each side of the case, ex: the P/L has a total of 10 clutch disc's and 10 friction plates while the T/L has 10 clutch disc's and 14 friction plates.
Yes they are both clutch type L/S's. The T/L uses ( in facrory form according to my Spicer Manual forr the 80 ) 7 plates and 5 disc's and is pre-loaded only by a belvel (sp) dished spring. The power-lok uses 5 plates and 5 disc's each and has the same type belvel dished spring for pre-load and the 4 pinion gears on the cross-shaft put extra pressure on the clutches for greater traction.
The two cross-shaft's on the P/L are cut at a V angle at the case and when enough drive force is generated they ( try ) to walk up the case therefore causing even more pressure on the clutches and plates.
The easiest way to tell the difference between the two is to look at where the cross-shafts meet the case; if it is round all the way around it is a T/L and if it has a " V " shaped cut on one side and round on the opposite side it is a P/L .
There are internal differences but you cant see them unless you tear into the case halves. The P/L is considered the one to have if you want traction.
If I could figure out how to put pictures on this dagum computer I would print out some of the Spicer drawing's of each of the L/S's. I'll work on it . Hope this helps , Thomas
P. S.
When talking about the # of plates and clutches, it is for each side of the case, ex: the P/L has a total of 10 clutch disc's and 10 friction plates while the T/L has 10 clutch disc's and 14 friction plates.
Last edited:
P/L setups
Here are 4 different setups listed in the Spicer 60/70 P/L Service
Manual, using 4 different clutches as follows:
A. Dished plate (external tangs)
B. Dished disc (internal splines)
C. Flat plate
D. Flat disc
The first and most aggressive: A. B. C. D. C. with the convex side
of A. and B. facing the center of the differential.
The second: A. D. C. D. C. again with the convex side of A. facing
the center of the differential.
The third: C. A. B. D. C. This time the convex sides of A and B
facing the outside of the case.
The fourth: A. C. D. D. C. with the convex side of A. facing the
center of the case.
The fifth one that I have seen used is not shown in the book is
set up the same as the first one except that B. changes direction
so that its convex side faces the convex side of A. this provides
an extreme amount of preload and is very aggressive.
The first, second and fifth provide 5 friction surfaces counting the
clutch ring and the third and fourth only provide 3 friction surfaces.
There is a note in the manual that the fourth setup is the only
one that is to be used for a front axle.
I hope that you find this information useful, I don't currently have
a Spicer manual for the 80 series.
Gus
Here are 4 different setups listed in the Spicer 60/70 P/L Service
Manual, using 4 different clutches as follows:
A. Dished plate (external tangs)
B. Dished disc (internal splines)
C. Flat plate
D. Flat disc
The first and most aggressive: A. B. C. D. C. with the convex side
of A. and B. facing the center of the differential.
The second: A. D. C. D. C. again with the convex side of A. facing
the center of the differential.
The third: C. A. B. D. C. This time the convex sides of A and B
facing the outside of the case.
The fourth: A. C. D. D. C. with the convex side of A. facing the
center of the case.
The fifth one that I have seen used is not shown in the book is
set up the same as the first one except that B. changes direction
so that its convex side faces the convex side of A. this provides
an extreme amount of preload and is very aggressive.
The first, second and fifth provide 5 friction surfaces counting the
clutch ring and the third and fourth only provide 3 friction surfaces.
There is a note in the manual that the fourth setup is the only
one that is to be used for a front axle.
I hope that you find this information useful, I don't currently have
a Spicer manual for the 80 series.
Gus
Gus - GREAT info , thanks !
I have a thought that you might be able to shed some light on .
It appears that the clutches and friction plates from a Dana 60/70 P/L and 80 T/L & P/L are the same size but constructed of different material. I took the disc's & plates part # 707075 X from a 60 P/L and compared them to what came out of a Ford 80 T/L
and they are the same physical size.
Do you know which disc's & plates are the most aggressive ?
The 60 P/L stuff looks like the clutch material out of an automatic transmission and the 80 T/L stuff looks like it's grooved carbon fiber or something .
I am real happy with what I have done to the T/L in my truck but I want to make the P/L in my K-30 real aggressive and was wondering which clutch packs would be best. If Ya' got any insight on this or just an opinion on the clutches please share .
Thanks ,Thomas
I have a thought that you might be able to shed some light on .
It appears that the clutches and friction plates from a Dana 60/70 P/L and 80 T/L & P/L are the same size but constructed of different material. I took the disc's & plates part # 707075 X from a 60 P/L and compared them to what came out of a Ford 80 T/L
and they are the same physical size.
Do you know which disc's & plates are the most aggressive ?
The 60 P/L stuff looks like the clutch material out of an automatic transmission and the 80 T/L stuff looks like it's grooved carbon fiber or something .
I am real happy with what I have done to the T/L in my truck but I want to make the P/L in my K-30 real aggressive and was wondering which clutch packs would be best. If Ya' got any insight on this or just an opinion on the clutches please share .
Thanks ,Thomas
Clutch discs and plates
Thomas, I've seen some P/L clutches with friction material on the
discs but most of the ones that I have used have no friction
material on either the discs or the plates just plain steel. The odd
thing is that I've gotten them both ways using the same part no.
The 60s and 70s both use the same clutches and while its hard
to find a 1. 5" 35 spline Powr-Lok for a 60 you can make your own
using the proper parts from a 70.
Gus
Thomas, I've seen some P/L clutches with friction material on the
discs but most of the ones that I have used have no friction
material on either the discs or the plates just plain steel. The odd
thing is that I've gotten them both ways using the same part no.
The 60s and 70s both use the same clutches and while its hard
to find a 1. 5" 35 spline Powr-Lok for a 60 you can make your own
using the proper parts from a 70.
Gus
tarussell, thanks thats what I needed to know.
Jared
Jared
- Status
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
Turbo Diesel Register
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
