Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting adventures in reloading

[KBurgoyne]

so i finally got a basic set together and turned out my first set of rounds(largely courtesy of mr. john robinson) they are 45/70's with 350 grain jsp an 45 grains IMR 4227 powder. havent fired them yet but planning on doing that soon. lost a few cases due to stupidity/inexperience. the cases are twice as old as i am, and seem a bit tired so i wont be reusing them.

i started on some 44 mags and one thing is very clear. expensive ammo has much better cases than the cheap stuff. with the speer ammo (which looks to have steel cases) th worst round had only stretched 3 thousanths and they were 270 grain high pressure rounds. the corbon rounds were all at exact specs. the cheap stuff was PMC bronze and the best ones had stretched 5 thousanths.

so unfortunately i think i will take the hit and buy the expensive stuff for a while until i have a good supply of cases.

 

[JJPage]

Just about to do the same, been looking at a Lee Anniversary reloading kit(single press), and the die sets for 45/70 and 44 mag.



My neighbor has Lee's turret press and I was not impressed, the casings kept moving out of the turret and the primer feed was inconsistent, in fact a cap went off while trying to seat it. I could see the cap being fed in, it would hang up about every third casing, and set in the press sideways. This is probably just an adjustment, but for my use a single press is sufficient and the Lee Anniversary kit is available locally for $99.



Where did you acquire the 350 gr bullets for the 45/70?, The ones I found were about $. 50 each, that's expensive.



Let us know how you like them, and also the powder. I was trying to research a powder I could use in both calibers...

 

[KBurgoyne]

i bought a bunch of stuff from john robinson. its all 30-40 years old. these rounds Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Bullets :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: . 458 45 CAL :: 45 Cal . 458 350 gr InterLock® RN except the price on the box says they were 12 bucks for 50 back then and ive got about 150 of them so they'll be milked for all they are worth. 50 cents per bullet is abot right for that rounds its not a lightweight. factor in powder and a primer and its about 70-75 cents per round which is still less than half of new stuff.

with the powder i have at 45 grains per round i can load 155 rounds which works out to about 16 cents per round. 1 ounce is 437. 5 grains. 1 pound of powder was 25 bucks.

im planning to load leverevolution ammo to. ifyou want to do that buy new rounds first. the cases are cut to 2. 060 instead of 2. 095 and the overall length with the bullet is 2. 600 instead of 2. 550

if you really want to save on bullets you'll need to cast your own ammo. i am not a big fan of all lead though. its dirty

 

[GHarman]

Heres some skinny on reloading the . 45/70.

You can buy lead bullets! Examples;

Bullets 45 Cal (459 Diameter) 405 Grain Lead Flat Nose Gas Check



Meister Hard Cast Bullets 45 Cal (458 Diameter) 350 Grain Lead Flat Nose Two Lube Grooves Box of 250



If you have a place to set-up a lead pot! It is far easier and cheaper to cast your own. Wheel weights and scrap lead work great. Just be aware of what you are working with, keep yourself out of the fumes( fresh air, a negative airflow "B" box or an air purifying respirator with replaceable canisters that are NIOSH certified for fumes). Keep your work area separate and clean!

As far as a press, IMHO, Any good "O" style press is perfect provided it is proper aligned. Check the alignment of the ram and the die receiving threads. Of your loaded rounds are crooked? Many times it is a misalignment problem. Use an Ace Hardware #17 O-ring around the die body, under the locking ring, so the die can "float in the press threads". It helps with any minor misalignment as long as it is not to far out.

Please see this article;

O-Rings on Dies May Reduce Run-Out within AccurateShooter.com

Good Shooting!

GregH

 

[JJPage]

So far, the only ammo I have used for the 45/70 has been the 325gr Leverevolution/Hornady, so I am collecting brass.

I compared the 44 mag Hornady 200 gr XTP case length, against the 44 mag 225gr Leverevolution, and the cases are exactly the same length, but I read that the casings for the 45/70 Leverevolution are shorter than conventional Hornady 45/70 ammunition. Also, if you can find the Leverevolution bullets(which I cannot) the local source said they can order, they are almost $1. 00 a piece!

Not real sure I am going to save money on reloading, at least not at start up. Still, I believe it would be rewarding to produce my own rounds, not so sure I'm willing to start casting my own bullets, but if I want to save $s, not much choice.

I am sure HHh & GH may chime in here soon, and help us probies out!:-laf EDIT see, GH is present!... Thanks GH!

 

[GHarman]

Watch for sales! GregH



LEVERevolution Bullets 458 Cal (458 Diameter) 325 Grain Flex Tip eXpanding Box of 50

 

[KBurgoyne]

i know you can buy leads, im just not a fan of them. it seems like everytime i fire them the guns get filthy

 

[GHarman]

Describe the filthy? Are you getting leading in the barrel or unburned powder? GregH

 

[JJPage]

Watch for sales! GregH



LEVERevolution Bullets 458 Cal (458 Diameter) 325 Grain Flex Tip eXpanding Box of 50

GH, can you explain the difference between the Hornady mono flex and flex tip?, I see the difference in 325/250gr ammo, the 325 states flex, 250 states mono?



Or is this just a play on words?

 

[GHarman]

325 Gr. Flex tip price! It pays to shop around. Another source, $4. 49 cheaper/box! Heres the link;

Hornady*45 Cal . 458 325gr FTX /50*45015



JJ, The monoflex , I believe, is a solid guilding metal bullet with the flexible polymer tip. The 325 Gr. Flex tip has a lead core.



Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Rifle :: Choose by Product Line :: LEVERevolution® with MonoFlex™ Bullets



Hope this helps!

GregH

 

[JJPage]

JJ, The monoflex , I believe, is a solid guilding metal bullet with the flexible polymer tip. The 325 Gr. Flex tip has a lead core.



Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Rifle :: Choose by Product Line :: LEVERevolution® with MonoFlex™ Bullets



Hope this helps!

GregH

Great, Thanks, at the risk of going to the well once to often... can you give me an example of where the 250 gr mono flex would be advantageous over the 325 gr flex tip, other than maybe a smaller entrance/exit wound, and probably a flatter trajectory. Deeper penetration through bone?



I know that buying the ammunition, the 250 gr Leverevolution is about $2. more per box of twenty, than the 325 gr.

Copper more $ than lead.



Thanks again for you expertise, I appreciate it!

 

[JJPage]

i bought a bunch of stuff from john robinson. its all 30-40 years old. these rounds Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Bullets :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: . 458 45 CAL :: 45 Cal . 458 350 gr InterLock® RN

I don't believe I could use that bullet in my tubular magazine, could fire them one at a time...

 

[GHarman]

Great, Thanks, at the risk of going to the well once to often... can you give me an example of where the 250 gr mono flex would be advantageous over the 325 gr flex tip, other than maybe a smaller entrance/exit wound, and probably a flatter trajectory. Deeper penetration through bone?



I know that buying the ammunition, the 250 gr Leverevolution is about $2. more per box of twenty, than the 325 gr.

Copper more $ than lead.



Thanks again for you expertise, I appreciate it!

JJPage, I have no idea! Just a SWAG!

At 200 yards and under, I would not consider it an issue. Only what is legal for game in your neck of the woods. What the intended use will be, energy required, complete penetration or devastating internal damage (Deer, Elk or Bear) and what is the most accurate!

Are you recoil sensitive? Is your firearm a full sized rifle or a carbine with a short barrel?

I know California has "lead free hunting zones"! It's purpose may only be for a nitch market? Hope this helps?

GregH

 

[KBurgoyne]

Describe the filthy? Are you getting leading in the barrel or unburned powder? GregH

more powder than lead, and i havent shot much in the way of leads, and never anything that ive loaded, but i know that by the soft nature of lead it starts to disintegrate over 1300 fps due to the friction.



the worst rounds i ever fired were reloads from a local company. they blew out black smoke when fired which would be a powder issue,and they were leads. maybe they left a bad taste in my mouth. that 44 took me an hour to clean(this was before i got a bore snake).



by the way if you havent invested in bore snakes yet do it. they're awesome.

 

[GHarman]

more powder than lead, and i havent shot much in the way of leads, and never anything that ive loaded, but i know that by the soft nature of lead it starts to disintegrate over 1300 fps due to the friction.

the worst rounds i ever fired were reloads from a local company. they blew out black smoke when fired which would be a powder issue,and they were leads. maybe they left a bad taste in my mouth. that 44 took me an hour to clean(this was before i got a bore snake).

by the way if you havent invested in bore snakes yet do it. they're awesome.

OK! What you just described begs two answers.
#1. The powder was to slow for the bullet weight and velocity/pressure.
#2. The lubricant sucked!
Lead has a low coefficient of friction. It just needs a good lubricant, like Lyman Super Moly. (Not selling it, it just works!)
Powder needs to be selected by burning rates compatible with that slippery bullet. For instance, where you would use Reloader 7 in a hot load with a jacketed bullet. It may not work well for a light load with a lead bullet.
Yes there will be waxy residue from the bullet lube. That is not an issue. Unburnt powder, and carbon buildup is an issue that can be cured by proper load development.
Some of the older extruded powders are notorious for leaving unburned grains in the barrel. 3031, 4198 and 4227. Come to mind
Does that help any?
GregH
PS, dont kid yourself. Lead bullets perform well way over 1300 FPS!

 

[KBurgoyne]

i didnt load the ugly rounds and dont know what was in them. i havent fired the rounds i loaded yet, but that sucks that the powder is dirty. i went with that because i have 40 year old bullets and a 40 year old reloading guide so i went with what they reccommended which was 3031, 4198, and 4227. there must be an echo in here. from now on ill go with the new guide. it has aa 2015, rl 7,and h 335 as choises. if youve had a good experience with one of those please let me know.

 

[JJPage]

JJPage, I have no idea! Just a SWAG!

At 200 yards and under, I would not consider it an issue. Only what is legal for game in your neck of the woods. What the intended use will be, energy required, complete penetration or devastating internal damage (Deer, Elk or Bear) and what is the most accurate!

Are you recoil sensitive? Is your firearm a full sized rifle or a carbine with a short barrel?

I know California has "lead free hunting zones"! It's purpose may only be for a nitch market? Hope this helps?

GregH

SWAG? S. . Wild *** Guess?:-laf

Anything is legal, am I to understand the heavier(325gr) bullet will cause "devastating internal damage", compared to the deeper penetrating lighter/solid(250gr) bullet?

Not recoil sensitive, have a carbine, what is california?

Believe I will continue purchasing the heavier ammo.

Thanks, Jess

 

[HHhuntitall]

SWAG. Soldier With A Gun, Scientific/Simple Wild *** Guess, Stupid Wild-*** Girl..... depends on context... .

Either bullet will kill most game. Go with what you like, and if money is a factor, then you have your answer. I like the Leverlution ammo.

California is a hostile foriegn country.

At less than 400 yards, either will kill an elk or deer very well. I, personally, would carry the 325, just for "other" game you might encounter that might be hungry... . The 325s only have a little more recoil, but will hold thier energy better downrange. As for reloading, there is a plethora of sources available for whatever powder you want to use. Just pick one, and on that company's website, they'll most likely have a loading manual you can find a starting load on..... GHarm really likes that caliber and has pretty extensive knowledge in it's reloading and shooting capabilities.

 

[KBurgoyne]

so i went to the local gun shop to get some powder. when i tried to get some i was told that i could not because you need to be 21 to buy powder. this is odd because a week earlier i had purchased powder from the same guy at the same store. i didnt say anything else becasue i dont want to get the guy in trouble(he seems like a good old boy) or admit any illegal activity on my part. so i went to the other end of the store and purchased live ammo. what a stupid law.

 

[HHhuntitall]

California is a hostile foriegn country.

Sorry, but I don't get along with that state. Too many loony-tunes out there..... I wish you luck.....