Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting adventures in reloading

[HHhuntitall]

Lack of Sleep, I'm sure, HH!

A head shot(classic between the eyes) on a charging bear is risky!

That low sloping and very THICK skull can skin a slug off into the wild blue yonder with absolutely no effect on the bear other than to Pi** it off further. Solidifying in its mind that you are gonna be a steaming pile of "bear sign" on a forest trail, after he gets his revenge!

Shots fired down the throat, through the nose, the eye socket are all vulnerable shots if they are on all 4's charging you. However, you absolutely must retain a "stiff upper lip" whilst delivering that precision shot. Frankly speaking, unless you are accustomed to seeing Bear, a close up, high adrenaline encounter will probably be less accurate that you would desire! That's why fast, follow-up capability, is an absolutely necessity.

The real important thing is to be familiar with the anatomy of the critter you expect to encounter. Oh! And carry a change of Skivvies:-laf! GregH

Yes, GHarm, but when looking at the bear diagram, if you are aiming at a bear charging directly at you, the skull is the first point of aim. Most likely you will over shoot, and hit the spine. Off to each side, and you take a shoulder or lungs... ... or so I'm told. The low to the ground charge is what makes them vulnerable to the large, penetrating round... . I can't say that I know, only what I was told. Am I wrong there? A side shot isn't possible in a full blown direct charge, and we both know the quickest stop is skull or spine, which are lined up directly with you in a charge.



I do know what it's like to be charged, by various game and animals... . A skull shot on a 3,000lb bull is no problem!! Draw an X between the eyes and horns, and squeeze on center. Hogs might be similar to bears... . they charge and the best shot you're offered is the top of the head and spine area... although smaller hogs may charge sideways, trying to make themselves look larger than what they are... funny little gait... easy shot. The pop their teeth like bears when agitated.

Try the Nosler 300 Gr. Partitions, also! They are kinda expensive, but a quality game bullet. GregH

Definitely. The partitions will deliver the mail!! I use them quite a bit in 6. 5 and . 284.

 

[HHhuntitall]

HERE IS ANOTHER TACTIC!!!!! Although less successful AND HIGHLEY UNADVISEABLE. If you could get the bear to stand still because he's out of breath from chasing you and you could get a clear shot on him :-laf:-laf



SORRY FOR BEING A WISE A** IT'S JUST THE WAY I AM :-laf

Awwww, look, he just wants a hug!!!

 

[BIGNASTY]

I thought it was wanting the Snickers candy bar in the hunters pocket

 

[KBurgoyne]

got the hornady guide. says that the leverevoltion case trim length is 2. 040, C. O. L is 2. 590. chose h335 powder. 63 for the 300s 58 for the 325s and 55 for the 350s.



the guide says not to use 500 grain round nose because, "the 500 grain round nose, when loaded to function through the magazine, has the bullet seated with the cannelure below the mouth of the case, which takes up too much case volume and allows no place for crimping"



i know the rifle can fire 500s, the oh my god garretts say fire only in marlin rifles.

im not in ahuge hurry to fire the big stuff, but i would like to eventually.

can someone reccomend a good load, bullet, powder, C. O. L. that isnt the 4 bucks a shot garretts.

 

[GHarman]

Heres a bullet that is close and is designed with a crimp groove for the Marlin overall length. Your load data can start with black powder equivilent velocities and up as you learn to handle it. Reloader 7 is a good powder choice for medium velocities up to your limit. There may be others? Heres a link for a Gas checked 460 Gr. lead hammer, to start with! You may want to shop around. The bullets are made by Cast Performance Bullet Company. Midway and others carry them also. GregH



458/460gr. WFNGC . 459 dia 50 Count



Bullets 45 Cal (459 Diameter) 460 Grain Lead Flat Nose Gas Check

 

[GHarman]

PS, A little "Old Timers Disease" got in the way of this resource. Just remembered this site!

These are the folks that designed the original bullets that Cast Performance Bullet Company sells commercially.

Their Bullet Lube(LBT Blue) is also top notch! I've used it.

Please read all the links on the left of the page. The information inside is like mining for gold. You will be a Cast Bullet expert if you can digest it all! You just need to sort through the information and glean what is relevant to your situation. Have Fun, Good Shootin'!

GregH



Lead Bullets Technology

 

[KBurgoyne]

thanks buddy. going off data for a 500 grain i would say 40 grains of 4227 would be a good stout shot at about 1700 fps with the 460 gas checks. max for the 500 is 44. 3 grains.

 

[GHarman]

I would go online and check out data for AAC-2015 and other data sources, also. IMR 4227 is not my first choice of powder for your application. It may work OK? Depends on the performance! Watch your pressures!

See link, Page 20 bottom, left hand column! GregH



http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf

 

[HHhuntitall]

As always, GHarm, an excellent source of information, you are.....

 

[KBurgoyne]

well aparantly my old dies cant crimp the short hornady cases for the leverevolutions, so i ordered a new set from cabelas along with 100 cases.

 

[GHarman]

A Caution!

Separate and mark the cases that are for the leverevolution bullets. Do not shorten(other than the standard trim to length) the cases for the other bullets.

A long bearing surface bullet such as the 500 Grain will cause an increase in pressure using the shorter brass and full powered loads. If you are already running maximum pressure. The pressure will increase in the shorter brass because you have a decreased volume. Be aware of each change and make sure you write down your data! GregH

 

[KBurgoyne]

taken care of. i bought the rounds new first so i wouldnt have to chop off the other brass, so all the short brass has hornady on the bottom, and the rest has w-w for winchester. the new cases i ordered are also winchester.

 

[KBurgoyne]

I would go online and check out data for AAC-2015 and other data sources, also. IMR 4227 is not my first choice of powder for your application. It may work OK? Depends on the performance! Watch your pressures!

See link, Page 20 bottom, left hand column! GregH



http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf

in both of the loading guides i have, (hornady and nosler)2015 is the slowest powder in every aplication. rl7 works well with 300-350 grain but is limited to 1600fps with heavy loads. the IMRs (4198 and 4227) works well with all bullets that were tested and provide the best range of velocities.

 

[GHarman]

in both of the loading guides i have, (hornady and nosler)2015 is the slowest powder in every aplication. rl7 works well with 300-350 grain but is limited to 1600fps with heavy loads. the IMRs (4198 and 4227) works well with all bullets that were tested and provide the best range of velocities.

It really depends on your application! Chamber pressure is the limiting factor. However, most data for the . 45/70 is fairly conservative.

By all means try what you think will work. However, the 1895 Marlin will handle 35,000 CUP. . Loading data for the . 45/70 is usually divided into 2 or 3 pressure range categories from low pressure to high pressure loads.

It does not hurt , at all to use the low pressure loads for practice.

Learning the weapon requires lots of it. It surely is easier on the body with the lighter loads!

I have loaded the 350 Gr. HAWK Bullet to over 2000 FPS with RE-7, for hunting Elk and Deer. Makes a BIG Hole in Deer.

GregH

 

[GHarman]

A little update on loading data. Again it does depend on your rifle, barrel length, recoil tolerance, accuracy and use.

Was looking at my Barnes #4 Reloading Manual. It has loads for solid copper bullets and lead core with copper jackets, as were the original Barnes bullets. Similar to the Hawk bullet. The Data , in this book is split into two sections. One for the Marlin 1895 and the other for the Ruger #1.

Heres the issue! Chamber Pressure! A reiteration, but more precise description.

According to Barnes #4. The SAAMI maximum allowable pressure is 28,000 PSI This is considered a safe level for old rifles. Black Powder Pressures are less with a different pressure time curve.

The Data for the Marlin was tested up to 42,000PSI(about 35,000 CUP).

The Ruger #1 Data was tested up to 55,000 PSI:--).

How about a 400 Grain, lead cored semi spitzer doing 2185 FPS out of an 8# rifle!!!!



The Marlin data allows full potential of the round in a modern lever action, at the cost of stout recoil! How about a 400Gr Lead cored Flat point at 1996 FPS?

Both sets of data were taken fired from a 24" barrel. You will loose some velocity with a shorter tube.

400 Gr. Flat point data included powders such as H4198, RE-7, IMR-4198, XMR-2015, AA-1689,

X-Terminator, IMR-4227, H-4227,

The data for 250-300 Gr bullets included VIT-N120, XMP-5744, AA-1680, SR-4759, AA-2230 powders.

If you are interested in that data, after trying yours? You will awaken a sleeping giant:-laf! This is the stuff you use against, "Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My"! :-laf

Have fun

GregH

 

[KBurgoyne]

still waiting on the dies and cases. how many options are out there for 250 grain rounds. i only know about one, its a hornady and its a buck/shot.

 

[GHarman]

still waiting on the dies and cases. how many options are out there for 250 grain rounds. i only know about one, its a hornady and its a buck/shot.

Barnes TSX 250 Gr. FN, they also have a 300Gr. TSX FN. Solid copper! GregH

 

[KBurgoyne]

finally got the dies, yay. crimped the rounds, yay. have lots more cases to work with, yay. want imr 4198.



the dies are very high quality.

the cases are cases. wont have a good review until they're fired.

 

[KBurgoyne]

oops

after looking back over my information i realized that the load i used in my 45/70 rounds is a meduim for a ruger no. 1 which makes it slightly over a max for the marlin. i looked over the cases and they showed slight signs of extra pressure, so they will be unloaded and reloaded with a few less grains. 42 is good. good thing i only fired 10.



ill stick to h335, rl 7, and 4198 for a while, and use the 4227 for 44 mags and try not to get too overzealous next time. i hate it when im dumb. #@$%!



by the way, with medium loads, and resising after every use, what would be the aproximate life of a 45/70 case.



what a shame; those rounds had a good solid pop to em'

 

[GHarman]

Always inspect your brass. However, the amount of resizing will determine the case life. If your chamber is oversized and the case has a pronounced bulge above the head of the case, 3-5 reloads at the most.

Remember, . 45/70 brass is very thin! It will work harden and crack. It will also grow in length. Make sure your brass is trimmed to length. As it stretches, that brass migrates from the case head. A shiney ring or partial ring just above the rim on the body of the case is a sign. Take a piece of wire and make a small hook. Slide that hook down into a clean fired case and see if you can feel a groove opposite that shiny spot. That piece of brass is trash.

Try H-110 in your 44 magnum! You will never look back!

GregH