I've got 16k miles on my truck and am thinking about changing to synthetic oil. I've seen the new Mobil one 5w40 syn. and 15w40 syn. Anyone have input which would be better for me living in Chicago climate??? Should I wait longer to make the switch to synthetic? or should the engine be pretty well broken in by now. This is my first diesel so I'm learning as I go. Thanks for all the help with my newbe questions guys!!!!!!!!!!!
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Advice Needed Re: Synthetic Oil
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amsoil all the way... . i ve tried a few but i like amsiol the best
Tear a page out of the big trucking companies book and use synthetic and install a bypass filter. The bypass filter should be a 2 micron filter. All of the oil in your engine will pass through the bypass filter in about an hour or less of highway driving. Once you have converted over to synthetic oil change both filters at regular intervals and leave the oil in the engine. Be sure to fill the canisters with oil as you install the new filters so as not to starve the turbo of oil on initial start up. Expect to get one million miles. A few years ago a friends son had 960K on his cummins and had not changed oil or laid a wrench on his engine. The oil will get black but it is not due to dirt, it is a just what happens and is harmless. When oil (synthetic) is passed through a 2 micron filter the engine does not wear, it just polishes. This is not a recommendation, just a suggestion. I know how opposed to synthetic some people are. Synthetic is man made from chemicals and does not break down as does oil from the ground. It is your truck do whatever makes sense to you and what you feel comfortable with. I have a Nissan with a high revving 4 banger gasser in it that has 207K on it. I started with synthetic at 25K. It runs good. Because I would loose all the oil when I changed filters I changed oil every 25K. The oil I use is from a slight drip not from burning it, no smoke. In your area I would use 5 w 40. It is what I might change to if necessary when I move back to Ohio from Florida. -- email address removed --
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Oil wars are always a little heated around here. I use Amsoil like mad. I think the stuff is the best, others will disagree. To each their own. I sel it because I use it and have found it to perform very well. Take some time, grab a soda pop, and get on the search forum and you will find all sorts of threads on oil. It is a very hot topic here and probobly always will be. There is a wealth of info available here, you just may have to weed through a bit of unpleasantness to get to in information. Plan on spending some time reading. You'd be amazed at what you can learn.
Also, seeings how this was post number 3 for you, welcome to the forum!
Also, seeings how this was post number 3 for you, welcome to the forum!
A few years back some info came out from an independent lab that used a wear bar test - Amsoil was best with Mobile One a close second. I am sure there are recent reports and I would like to see one. -- email address removed --
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I use Amsoil exclusively. However, I am also a dealer. So take that as you wish.
I have no complaints whatsoever about the Mobil Delvac 1. In fact it's a great product, and the only product I recommend as an alternative to the Amsoil line.
In your case, I would recommend about 9,000 more miles before switching to synthetic. Just a recommendation from me.
Aron
I have no complaints whatsoever about the Mobil Delvac 1. In fact it's a great product, and the only product I recommend as an alternative to the Amsoil line.
In your case, I would recommend about 9,000 more miles before switching to synthetic. Just a recommendation from me.
Aron
I have used Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme since it came out, and 2000 before that (the semi-synthetic). I started with semi-synthetic at the 4th oil change in my '99 (11000 miles), and it has 135,000 now with a clean engine that looses 1 quart every 6000 miles. I will be useing it in my '06 starting with the 2nd change. I don't dispute that Amsoil is a better oil, as I have seen the specs, but for the money, Valvoline is good enough for me. It is readily available at cummins dealers. My $. 02 worth.
Jeff
Jeff
I use Royal Purple in mine.
You have two things to consider, with the warranty voiding DC is doing these days, you need to follow your owners manual which will require you to do the following:
1. Use API certified motor oil for diesel engines
2. Change it at 7,500 miles Schedule A or 15,000 miles Schedule B.
If you follow those two things you will have done what the manual said you must do, if you go outside of that and use none API certified motor oil or used extended drains, your warranty could be voided by DC.
You have two things to consider, with the warranty voiding DC is doing these days, you need to follow your owners manual which will require you to do the following:
1. Use API certified motor oil for diesel engines
2. Change it at 7,500 miles Schedule A or 15,000 miles Schedule B.
If you follow those two things you will have done what the manual said you must do, if you go outside of that and use none API certified motor oil or used extended drains, your warranty could be voided by DC.
there will be a API CJ-4 oil out soon which is better at soot control.This is what I have been told and read, that if you should not switch back and from from synthetic to regular in the motor. I dont run synthetic. My thoughts are that vechiles have been running a long time off of regular oil. I am not saying synthetic is bad, but if it aint broke dont fix it.
As long as you change your oil and filter regulary and do good PM and take care of your vechile, i would like to think your not going to have problems based on the oil, as long as you use the CI4/CH4 or what ever the symbols are from cummins.
Just my . 02
As long as you change your oil and filter regulary and do good PM and take care of your vechile, i would like to think your not going to have problems based on the oil, as long as you use the CI4/CH4 or what ever the symbols are from cummins.
Just my . 02
The only reason I would and do use synthetics is because of -zero temperature startups.
Mineral based oils are refined so well they mimick synthetics, in fact most synthetics labeled as synthetic are actually group III mineral based oils.
The only true group IV and V synthetics are:
Amsoil
Royal Purple
Mobil, although there has been speculation lately they might be blending
2 not so well known others I can not think of their names right now.
Mineral based oils are refined so well they mimick synthetics, in fact most synthetics labeled as synthetic are actually group III mineral based oils.
The only true group IV and V synthetics are:
Amsoil
Royal Purple
Mobil, although there has been speculation lately they might be blending
2 not so well known others I can not think of their names right now.
I like knowing that the synthetic (100%) that I am using is not breaking down as I use it. There is a reason synthetic costs more, it has more in it. The cost can be recovered by extending changes. As I have said before, it is your truck. You should do whatever you feel is right.
amsoilman
Staff Alumni
This article appeared in National Oil & Lube News, May 2006
When you think about, it’s amazing that we put so much faith in motor oil.
We demand a lot. As technology advances, the demands we place on lubrication increase. For example, we all want better fuel economy, so we’re using lighter oils. However, we also want engines to produce more power per cubic inch. To add power, we’re putting in turbochargers which raise the engine temperature and put higher stress on our oil.
That’s not the only stress. We value cleaner air, so cleaner exhaust emissions place more contamination in the oil and increase temperatures. We’ve cut aerodynamic drag, a plus for vehicle owners, but murder on oil. By minimizing the air flow over the engine and drivetrain, temperatures also increase. What’s more, with smaller sumps we have less oil to do the big job it has to do.
According to a recent study conducted by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), temps under the hood have increased by more than 30% since 1985. Our vehicles are increasingly complex and powerful machines. And increasingly hot. To keep them running smoothly, we’re demanding that lubricants do more and last longer. And above all, they must deal with the heat.
Synthetics offer many advantages, including longer lasting equipment, fewer repairs, better performance, better fuel economy and cleaner exhaust emissions. They even last longer than other lubricants. But one of the biggest drivers in the switch to synthetics is the way they deal with heat.
THE ROLE OF MOTOR OIL
Before you can understand why synthetic lubricants continue to grow in popularity, you need to grasp the many roles lubrication has in our vehicles.
First, and most important, is reducing friction. Lubricants reduce friction by creating a film between two surfaces. Many parts don’t need much separation, but that separation counts. Even the thinnest film cuts down contact. In most cases it eliminates it.
Lubricants perform other jobs, too. They must carry away harmful contaminants or prevent contaminants from sticking to engine parts and bear them to the filter. Lubricants also help cool the engine, not only by reducing heat from friction but also by absorbing heat from contact areas and transporting that heat to another location where it can’t harm sensitive engine parts.
We also rely on lubricants to seal pistons, piston rings and cylinder contact areas, prevent corrosion and transfer energy, as in hydraulic equipment or valve filters in an automotive engine.
We depend on our vehicles to perform well in all conditions. Lubricants cannot fail or our vehicles will suffer.
Today’s vehicles run with reduced oil viscosity, more horsepower, turbocharged engines, cleaner emissions, improved aerodynamics and increased operating temperatures. They perform all this under the watchful eye of a public demanding that vehicles run cleaner because of environmental concerns. We put stress on our lubricants.
THE ADVANTAGES OF SYNTHETICS
Synthetic lubricants help solve the problem of heat through their design. Because of their uniform structure synthetic molecules slip easily across one another. Because they’re created from pure chemicals they contain no contaminants or molecules that don’t help the lubricating process.
Contrast that to refined lubricants which contain odd-shaped molecules that don’t slip past each other as easily. This creates additional friction. Less friction means less engine wear and better heat control and fuel efficiency. Synthetics outperform refined lubricants because they reduce friction.
Reducing friction means reducing heat, a significant challenge in today’s high performance automobiles. Today’s vehicles produce more power and higher loads, pushing operating temperatures above the vehicle’s optimal range. High temperatures cause engine wear and failure.
Synthetics help control heat not only by reducing friction, but also by transferring heat more effectively than conventional lubricants. Again, the advantage lies in the synthetic molecule. Synthetics transfer heat more efficiently, reducing the possibility of engine problems.
It’s interesting that the appeal of synthetic motor oils was initially due to their low pour point in frigid temperatures. Over time, the technology proved to have far more advantages than first imagined.
Here is another Article that appeared in National Oil & Lube News this past Month!
When Synthetic Is Not Really Synthetic.
It is amazing how some news travels. Talking to people at car or trade shows over a display of AMSOIL products always involves interesting conversations on a variety of topics. Most questions are along the same lines, addressing cost of using synthetic oil, drainage intervals, and quality. AMSOIL provides a wealth of brochures and technical information, so the answers are readily available.
But over the last six months or so people keep coming up with one particular question: “Is AMSOIL still a real synthetic?” Evidently, the news that more “synthetic” oils are not really synthetic oils is getting around.
In 1999, the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled in Mobil Oil’s challenge that Castrol’s “advertisements inaccurately represented that the current formulation of Syntec is synthetic”. Mobil’s position was “true synthetics had to be formulated from small molecules subject to a chemical reaction, not built from natural petroleum”. Castrol uses a “hydroprocessed mineral oil” (a Group III base stock) as the base stock in their Castrol Syntec. Previously, synthetic oil was accepted to mean the base stock was not conventional petroleum oil, regardless of refining process. This ruling changed all that.
The most popular and best performing conventional base stock was formulated with polyalphaolefin (PAO), together with other non-petroleum products, such as ester, to achieve optimum performance and seal swell. This is in essence the base stock used by AMSOIL.
People are more than a little surprised when they hear that many oils now on the market that are labeled as “synthetic” are really conventional oils. They are being advertised and labeled as synthetic oil, but are really specially refined conventional petroleum oil. People ask me how these companies can do that.
I first included in this newsletter over a year ago excerpts from an article in Lubricants World Magazine entitled “A Defining Moment for Synthetics” which reviewed the facts and circumstances around the challenge made by Mobile against Castrol’s advertising. In essence, the term “synthetic” was determined to not be a scientific term, but was judged to be a marketing term. The definition of synthetic lubricants was broadened to the use of the term “synthetic” in referring to motor oil that had the ability to provide synthetic performance, but without defining synthetic performance. In other words, beauty is now in the eye of the beholder – but without full disclosure!
Now, as a result of this ruling, many of the labels on motor oils that you see on store shelves that say “synthetic” is not a synthetic (in the classical sense), and could now be what used to be labeled a “synthetic-blend”. According to Lubes n’ Greases magazine (July 2001), “…most large lubricant producers moved quickly to replace PAO with Group III base stocks in their synthetic [passenger car motor oil] formulations. ”
How can you tell? Price is one way. Hydrocracked oil, according to Lubes n’ Greases magazine, is $1. 50 to $2. 00 per gallon cheaper, half that of PAO’s.
But if it is labeled as a duck, does it walk like a duck?
According to Lubes n’ Greases magazine, “PAO has a significant advantage in low-temperature performance. This could prove to be the handhold needed to pull base stock demand out of the [Group III] space and into PAO territory. Market development will be slow, but auto makers specifying the use of 0W-30 and 0W-20 engine oil would drive such a victory. Since PAO may be the only show in town to meet the cold-cranking specification for these grades, ultimately this could result in a prize for PAO bigger than the one it lost in its first major battle with Group III. ”
Beyond the passenger car motor oil market, Lubes n’ Greases says PAO still enjoys double-digit growth in many industrial lubricant applications. “Industrial end-users are far less enamored with the term “synthetic” than they are with the track record of success PAO has built handling extreme temperatures and other challenging operating conditions. PAO will continue to do battle with Group III in the industrial segment, but it remains a strong incumbent and is expected to not only hold its ground, but also grow. PAO continues to capture market share in heavy-duty gear oil applications and shows promise as a means to extend drains in heavy-duty diesel engines equipped with exhaust gas recirculation (EGR). ”
Wayne
When you think about, it’s amazing that we put so much faith in motor oil.
We demand a lot. As technology advances, the demands we place on lubrication increase. For example, we all want better fuel economy, so we’re using lighter oils. However, we also want engines to produce more power per cubic inch. To add power, we’re putting in turbochargers which raise the engine temperature and put higher stress on our oil.
That’s not the only stress. We value cleaner air, so cleaner exhaust emissions place more contamination in the oil and increase temperatures. We’ve cut aerodynamic drag, a plus for vehicle owners, but murder on oil. By minimizing the air flow over the engine and drivetrain, temperatures also increase. What’s more, with smaller sumps we have less oil to do the big job it has to do.
According to a recent study conducted by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), temps under the hood have increased by more than 30% since 1985. Our vehicles are increasingly complex and powerful machines. And increasingly hot. To keep them running smoothly, we’re demanding that lubricants do more and last longer. And above all, they must deal with the heat.
Synthetics offer many advantages, including longer lasting equipment, fewer repairs, better performance, better fuel economy and cleaner exhaust emissions. They even last longer than other lubricants. But one of the biggest drivers in the switch to synthetics is the way they deal with heat.
THE ROLE OF MOTOR OIL
Before you can understand why synthetic lubricants continue to grow in popularity, you need to grasp the many roles lubrication has in our vehicles.
First, and most important, is reducing friction. Lubricants reduce friction by creating a film between two surfaces. Many parts don’t need much separation, but that separation counts. Even the thinnest film cuts down contact. In most cases it eliminates it.
Lubricants perform other jobs, too. They must carry away harmful contaminants or prevent contaminants from sticking to engine parts and bear them to the filter. Lubricants also help cool the engine, not only by reducing heat from friction but also by absorbing heat from contact areas and transporting that heat to another location where it can’t harm sensitive engine parts.
We also rely on lubricants to seal pistons, piston rings and cylinder contact areas, prevent corrosion and transfer energy, as in hydraulic equipment or valve filters in an automotive engine.
We depend on our vehicles to perform well in all conditions. Lubricants cannot fail or our vehicles will suffer.
Today’s vehicles run with reduced oil viscosity, more horsepower, turbocharged engines, cleaner emissions, improved aerodynamics and increased operating temperatures. They perform all this under the watchful eye of a public demanding that vehicles run cleaner because of environmental concerns. We put stress on our lubricants.
THE ADVANTAGES OF SYNTHETICS
Synthetic lubricants help solve the problem of heat through their design. Because of their uniform structure synthetic molecules slip easily across one another. Because they’re created from pure chemicals they contain no contaminants or molecules that don’t help the lubricating process.
Contrast that to refined lubricants which contain odd-shaped molecules that don’t slip past each other as easily. This creates additional friction. Less friction means less engine wear and better heat control and fuel efficiency. Synthetics outperform refined lubricants because they reduce friction.
Reducing friction means reducing heat, a significant challenge in today’s high performance automobiles. Today’s vehicles produce more power and higher loads, pushing operating temperatures above the vehicle’s optimal range. High temperatures cause engine wear and failure.
Synthetics help control heat not only by reducing friction, but also by transferring heat more effectively than conventional lubricants. Again, the advantage lies in the synthetic molecule. Synthetics transfer heat more efficiently, reducing the possibility of engine problems.
It’s interesting that the appeal of synthetic motor oils was initially due to their low pour point in frigid temperatures. Over time, the technology proved to have far more advantages than first imagined.
Here is another Article that appeared in National Oil & Lube News this past Month!
When Synthetic Is Not Really Synthetic.
It is amazing how some news travels. Talking to people at car or trade shows over a display of AMSOIL products always involves interesting conversations on a variety of topics. Most questions are along the same lines, addressing cost of using synthetic oil, drainage intervals, and quality. AMSOIL provides a wealth of brochures and technical information, so the answers are readily available.
But over the last six months or so people keep coming up with one particular question: “Is AMSOIL still a real synthetic?” Evidently, the news that more “synthetic” oils are not really synthetic oils is getting around.
In 1999, the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled in Mobil Oil’s challenge that Castrol’s “advertisements inaccurately represented that the current formulation of Syntec is synthetic”. Mobil’s position was “true synthetics had to be formulated from small molecules subject to a chemical reaction, not built from natural petroleum”. Castrol uses a “hydroprocessed mineral oil” (a Group III base stock) as the base stock in their Castrol Syntec. Previously, synthetic oil was accepted to mean the base stock was not conventional petroleum oil, regardless of refining process. This ruling changed all that.
The most popular and best performing conventional base stock was formulated with polyalphaolefin (PAO), together with other non-petroleum products, such as ester, to achieve optimum performance and seal swell. This is in essence the base stock used by AMSOIL.
People are more than a little surprised when they hear that many oils now on the market that are labeled as “synthetic” are really conventional oils. They are being advertised and labeled as synthetic oil, but are really specially refined conventional petroleum oil. People ask me how these companies can do that.
I first included in this newsletter over a year ago excerpts from an article in Lubricants World Magazine entitled “A Defining Moment for Synthetics” which reviewed the facts and circumstances around the challenge made by Mobile against Castrol’s advertising. In essence, the term “synthetic” was determined to not be a scientific term, but was judged to be a marketing term. The definition of synthetic lubricants was broadened to the use of the term “synthetic” in referring to motor oil that had the ability to provide synthetic performance, but without defining synthetic performance. In other words, beauty is now in the eye of the beholder – but without full disclosure!
Now, as a result of this ruling, many of the labels on motor oils that you see on store shelves that say “synthetic” is not a synthetic (in the classical sense), and could now be what used to be labeled a “synthetic-blend”. According to Lubes n’ Greases magazine (July 2001), “…most large lubricant producers moved quickly to replace PAO with Group III base stocks in their synthetic [passenger car motor oil] formulations. ”
How can you tell? Price is one way. Hydrocracked oil, according to Lubes n’ Greases magazine, is $1. 50 to $2. 00 per gallon cheaper, half that of PAO’s.
But if it is labeled as a duck, does it walk like a duck?
According to Lubes n’ Greases magazine, “PAO has a significant advantage in low-temperature performance. This could prove to be the handhold needed to pull base stock demand out of the [Group III] space and into PAO territory. Market development will be slow, but auto makers specifying the use of 0W-30 and 0W-20 engine oil would drive such a victory. Since PAO may be the only show in town to meet the cold-cranking specification for these grades, ultimately this could result in a prize for PAO bigger than the one it lost in its first major battle with Group III. ”
Beyond the passenger car motor oil market, Lubes n’ Greases says PAO still enjoys double-digit growth in many industrial lubricant applications. “Industrial end-users are far less enamored with the term “synthetic” than they are with the track record of success PAO has built handling extreme temperatures and other challenging operating conditions. PAO will continue to do battle with Group III in the industrial segment, but it remains a strong incumbent and is expected to not only hold its ground, but also grow. PAO continues to capture market share in heavy-duty gear oil applications and shows promise as a means to extend drains in heavy-duty diesel engines equipped with exhaust gas recirculation (EGR). ”
Wayne
i've been waiting to switch to a synthetic oil until i get 20k on my truck. well that time is approaching with my next oil change. after looking at different oils and manufactures i have decided that amsoil is the way to go. my next change will be with amsoil 15w-40.
also after doing all of this searching i would actually like to become a dealer.
also after doing all of this searching i would actually like to become a dealer.
Nothing but Amsoil in my truck. With there prefered cust program prices and not paying the stealers labor costs I can save up for a new car for my wife. Won't need a truck for many years because of the mighty Cummins and Amsoil products. Just hope the Dodge truck around all this lasts as long.
i also use the valvoline premium blue i like it its easily found and its certified by cummins for use in their big engines which see alot more use then mine. i still drain at 6k miles and when i do finaly get a bypass filter like the ones that otr trucks use i will extend it out to 10k like it says on the bottle
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
