Airbag Installation

[Mopar_Mudder]

Had air bags, wasn't happy with them at all, more info here:



Air Lift Thread

 

[RobG]

Okay I read that "Airlift" thread and I can see your point. It makes me wonder if I should adapt my 2nd gen bags instead of buying new 3rd gen bags.



I already had placed the lower brackets on top of the springs and was trying to figure out how to position the upper bracket (assuming at the time that I would drill holes) and it looked to me like the bags would be overextended at stock ride height unless I mounted the upper brackets near the bottom of the frame, which wasn't possible due to restrictions on drilling.



BUT... I do like the idea of custom brackets, and after seeing the installation instructions for the 3rd gen bags, I have some ideas on how to make some. Now it's time to go outside and do some measuring and test-fitting...



And the last thing I want to do is make the ride worse. I'll go spend $2000 on the Primary Air system or the Kelderman 4-link before I'll make the ride worse.



Rob

 

[SRadke]

Rob-

We threw a lot of ideas and numbers around in that other thread. In the end we decided the 03 air bags did not mount in a place where they had enough room to make them function properly. I would really like to get a set of air bags on my truck but I will not limit the suspension travel to do it. Unfortunately I haven't had time to do the R&D that it will take to make this happen. Best of luck to you and let us know if you make a system that works well.

-Scott

 

[RobG]

Here are two photos I took with the 2nd gen bags in place on my truck:



View from Wheel Well



View from Below



As you can see in the first pic, the spring is at it's normal fully extended position, and the upper bracket would be sitting almost in line with the bottom edge of the frame. This is with the overload springs and bump stops in place and no weight in the bed.



In the second pic, which is from under the truck, it shows another perspective.



My thought is this... unbolt the bump stop as you do to install the 3rd gen bags and fab an L-shaped bracket that bolts to the bump stop location and runs up the outside of the frame, and you bolt the 2nd gen bracket to that L-bracket what whatever position seems ideal. The height of the lower bracket could be altered with different spacers as needed.



Whaddaya think?



Rob

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Here is one thing I was thinking. Getting the second gen bag and I have the B&W gooseneck hitch which has big plates of steel that are u-bolted to the outside of the frame rails. I could weld brackets to the gooseneck plates to make the top bag mount. I can image what B&W would say about welding to their mounts though... ... .



You could u-bolt plates of some sort to your frame and do the same thing.

 

[SRadke]

I'm having a tough time following you without looking at the truck. I'll check it out later and offer my thoughts.



As far as welding to the goosneck I think this is a great idea. Mine was made by Diamond hitch but I'm sure is very similar to the B&W. It uses mild steel plates above and below the frame rails with long bolts for a clamp. Metallurgically there should be no issues with welding to the outside lip of these plates to mount an airbag bracket. If done incorrectly it may limit the ability to remove the goosneck hitch (without a blue tip saw ) in the future but I have no reason to do that.

-Scott

 

[RobG]

One of my main concerns with using the 2nd gen bags is if they will cause the same problem as the third-gen bags due to the size of the bags themselves. If so, then I might as well (a) use the proper bags for my truck rather than pay somebody $100-200 to fab up brackets for my current ones, or (b) not use them at all.



Rob

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by SRadke

I'm having a tough time following you without looking at the truck. I'll check it out later and offer my thoughts.



As far as welding to the goosneck I think this is a great idea. Mine was made by Diamond hitch but I'm sure is very similar to the B&W. It uses mild steel plates above and below the frame rails with long bolts for a clamp. Metallurgically there should be no issues with welding to the outside lip of these plates to mount an airbag bracket. If done incorrectly it may limit the ability to remove the goosneck hitch (without a blue tip saw ) in the future but I have no reason to do that.

-Scott

I am sure it is no problem to weld to the plates, I know that I could do it. What I was refering to is that if anything ever happened for what ever reason that the hitch failed or something they would say tough luck because you modified it, which could get you into a law suit if your problem caused an accident or something.

 

[SRadke]

I don't think there is much physical diffrence between the second and third gen airbags. What is diffrent is the mounting hardware and location. The problem with the third gen setup is not the airbags so much as the lack of axle travel caused by how and where they are mounted.



As for the lawsuit I never really thought about it. I made the gooseneck hitch in my last pickup entirely from scratch so any liability was mine. I know after installing my current hitch that is is a very strong design and my airbag mods would not comprimise that. For this reason I am not worried.

-Scott

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by SRadke

I don't think there is much physical diffrence between the second and third gen airbags. What is diffrent is the mounting hardware and location. The problem with the third gen setup is not the airbags so much as the lack of axle travel caused by how and where they are mounted.



As for the lawsuit I never really thought about it. I made the gooseneck hitch in my last pickup entirely from scratch so any liability was mine. I know after installing my current hitch that is is a very strong design and my airbag mods would not comprimise that. For this reason I am not worried.

-Scott

You know that and I know that. But with the way of the world now days everyone wants to sue and everyone else is looking for a way to pass blame. Just something you have to keep in mind, it is is a business vehicle it is that much worse.

 

[SRadke]

I'm not argueing the lawsuit. You have a totally legitament point. To me it's just like the warrantee, I am my own warrantee station.



I looked at how my 03 is setup a while ago and it looks like there is plenty of room on top of the spring pack and next to the frame rail for a set of airbags. This is exactly where the previous airbags mounted is it not? Why change what works? I'm not sure how to attach the lower bracket to the top of the spring pack but the upper bracket should be easy with the help of my gooseneck hitch. I wish I had the time to play with it.

-Scott

 

[Bill Stockard]

RobG,



A better name would low pressure switches instead of safety relays. If the pressure in either or both bags drops below 5 PSI the compressor will automatically come on and pressure up the bag up to about 7 PSI then shut off. The only time this would be necessary would be if you had a leak.



Bill

 

[RobG]

Okay one more thought... since airbags don't seem to be a good idea right now, what are people's thoughts on the Timbren rubber springs? They appear to attach to the underside of the axle bump stop, so I wonder how badly they would affect unloaded ride, while still providing a more level ride than without them?



I will do more measurements of my 2nd gen airbags in the morning and decide if I want to try to make them work or not...



Rob

 

[SRadke]

More info on Timbrens here:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=79645



-Scott

 

[RobG]

Yeah I read that thread (that's where I heard about 'em) and wanted some more opinions on them.



But after reading over the thread again, I've concluded that airbags are still the best way to go, especially given that the cost is similar.



Rob

 

[SRadke]

I agree that airbags are a better system when mounted and functioning properly. I've never ridden in a truck with Timbrens so I can't say how they affect the ride.

-Scott