Aisin - no grade braking?

[jhenderson]

Maybe you should be afraid of Melvin. He's obviously not bright enough to understand your post. He may not understand his truck.

 

[MelvinPierce]

Yep, that is me. Just a dummy. Obviously not very bright. You nailed me right on the head. Duh

 

[Kirwin]

My truck works like it's supposed to I think. Push the button once to turn on the exhaust brake, orange icon in the EVIC, the brake noticealby slows you from any speed > 25 MPH anytime you take you foot off the gas pedal, including down shifting as necessary. Push the button again, green icon in the EVIC, and the brake only comes on as necessary to prevent vehicle speed from increasing, unless you touch the brake pedal, then again the brake comes on full until you take your foot off the brake or speed reachs 25 MPH down shifting as necessary. It tow/haul mode the down shifts occur at higher speeds and the brake force is amplified by this. I'd guess that your truck is not working as designed if you have no exhaust braking. The transmission does shift more than I'm used to, but it's a 6 speed, so it has two more gears to select from so I guess it would shift more. Ken Irwin

 

[Powder Extreme]

If I am slowing down or coming to a stop, the transmission downshifts just fine.
When I am loaded and descending a hill trying to maintain speed, the transmission will not downshift. Most other vehicles I own will downshift as the speed increases over the set cruise control amount.

 

[sag2]

From the owners manual.
When frequent transmission shifting occurs (such as
when operating the vehicle under heavy loading conditions,
in hilly terrain, traveling into strong head winds, or
while towing heavy trailers), use the Electronic Range
Select (ERS) shift control (refer to “Electronic Range
Select (ERS) Operation” in this section) to select a lower
gear range. Under these conditions, using a lower gear
range will improve performance and extend transmission
life by reducing excessive shifting and heat buildup.

The automatic transmission will downshift more aggressively
in TOW/HAUL mode when the exhaust brake is
enabled to increase brake performance.

NOTE: For optimum braking power it is recommended
to use the exhaust brake while in TOW/HAUL mode.
The exhaust brake feature can also be used to reduce the
engine warm up time. To use the exhaust brake as a
warm-up device, the vehicle must be stopped or moving
less than 5 mph (8 km/h), the Exhaust Brake Indicator
must be on, and the coolant temperature must be below
180°F (82°C) and ambient temperature below 60°F (16°C).
Automatic Smart Exhaust Brake
Automatic Exhaust Brake technology delivers smoother,
less aggressive exhaust braking characteristics during
downhill descents. Although it can apply full exhaust
braking force if needed, Automatic Exhaust Brake may
not apply obvious braking if the vehicle speed is not
increasing. Automatic Exhaust Brake is intended to maintain
vehicle speed, while Full Exhaust Brake is intended
to reduce vehicle speed.

Automatic Exhaust Brake can be enabled by pushing the
exhaust brake button again anytime after the normal Full
Exhaust Brake has been turned on. The “Exhaust Brake
Indicator” in the EVIC will change from Yellow to Green
when Automatic Exhaust Brake is enabled. Pushing the
exhaust brake button again will toggle the exhaust brake
mode to off.

 

[AClayton]

Coming out of a 2nd Gen truck and into a 13' model... ..... all I can say is "I love towing with this thing"!!!! So what if I have to toggle the ERS on occasion to maintain speed going downhill. I would suggest towing with an older truck for a few hundred miles and then hop back into your 4th Gen... ... only then will you realize this is one very well designed vehicle!!

 

[MelvinPierce]

From the owners manual.
When frequent transmission shifting occurs (such as
when operating the vehicle under heavy loading conditions,
in hilly terrain, traveling into strong head winds, or
while towing heavy trailers), use the Electronic Range
Select (ERS) shift control (refer to “Electronic Range
Select (ERS) Operation” in this section) to select a lower
gear range. Under these conditions, using a lower gear
range will improve performance and extend transmission
life by reducing excessive shifting and heat buildup.

I guess all the engineers at ram are not very bright either. They say EXACTLY the same thing I did! EVERY manual I have read, has talked about "hunting" between gears when towing. ALL of them said to downshift manually to stop it. Can cause damage. I guess all those engineers are "not bright enough" either.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Well Melvin, you sure have missed the entire point of this thread, and the quote from the owners manual doesn't have anything to do with it either.

Let me try one more time,

When descending a steep hill at highway speeds while towing a trailer heavy enough to make the truck gain speed. Meaning that with no throttle application the truck is increasing speed. It is doing so because the combined weight of the vehicle is heavy enough to overcome the rolling resistance of all the tires and the wind resistance of the entire vehicle.

Okay, so we have established the truck is gaining speed and why it is doing so, now keep in mind the cruise control is set at 55mph. That part doesn't change and is important to the scenario.

Now the truck is in tow/haul mode, the exhaust brake is turned on. The exhaust brake will activate, but the weight of the truck is still heavy enough that it will continue to gain speed, you with me so far?

The only way for the vehicle to maintain speed without applying the service brakes would be to downshift the transmission. So now we get to my actual question that I asked in the very first post.

When on cruise control, most all of the other vehicles I have driven in the above scenario will downshift the transmission automatically to maintain speed. All of my Duramax/ Allisons did, my 1/2 ton 8spd Dodge does, my 2010 1 ton Dodge did. I'm fairly sure the new dodge Aisin I test drove before buying my truck did as well.

So, my question is for either people who actually OWN and DRIVE a new 2013 Dodge with an Aisin transmission or for techs that KNOW how the transmissions are supposed to work. I don't need speculation from people who have never driven an Aisin with a load, or from people who don't own one. Unless as I stated they are a Ram / Aisin trained tech. (Which seems hard to find, the mechanic at my local dealership argued with me yesterday saying my truck has a 68rfe in it, he told me they only put Aisin's in C&C's. I said it USED to be that way. He told me I was wrong, no way my truck had an Aisin in it. I finally told him to crawl under the truck and look)

Soooo, is/does the Aisin transmission downshift automatically in the above scenario? My truck gained 20mph over the cruise set speed and never downshifted the transmission.

 

[Powder Extreme]

It's funny it says the automatic exhaust brake delivers "smooth, less aggressive behavior". It turns on at the exact same strength (which can be monitored in the evic) it just cycles on and off more.

One would think by reading what the manual says, the brake is applies with less force. Not the case, at least not with my truck. The brake will apply 115hp of braking at 2200 rpm regardless of the switch setting. Auto mode just cycles it on and off.

 

[MelvinPierce]

I just went back, and reread the entire thread. As far as your original post, #1, you are 100% correct. Totally. My answer does NOT address that, and is wrong in reference to post #1.

However, If you go back, you will see in post #15, you talked about the transmission shifting up and down all the time, on a slight upgrade. In post #17, I quoted your post #15, referencing the up and down shifting. THAT is what my responses have been to. So, I believe I provided the correct answer, to your question in post # 15.

The problem is, you are going back to your post # 1, and I am referencing the problem you posted in # 15, which is a different problem.

I am sorry for the confusion.

 

[Beast2B]

sag2 is a VERY qualified tech, so I'm hoping he can add more than just the quote from the manual. I love the fact that my truck will downshift while towing or empty (in T/H mode) to maintain the desired cruise control speed. Not sure if a particular sensor can affect this, but there is definitely a problem. member TransEngineer may also be able to direct you to a particular test for the local tech to attempt.

 

[Powder Extreme]

sag2 is a VERY qualified tech, so I'm hoping he can add more than just the quote from the manual. I love the fact that my truck will downshift while towing or empty (in T/H mode) to maintain the desired cruise control speed. Not sure if a particular sensor can affect this, but there is definitely a problem. member TransEngineer may also be able to direct you to a particular test for the local tech to attempt.

Oh ya, no doubt there are very qualified techs here, which is exactly why I am asking here, my local mechanic doesn't even know what transmission is in my truck. In your sig I see you have a 2010, is that the rig you are referencing? Or do you have a new one as well. My 2010 worked like expected that way too. Anybody else with an Aisin able to verify if theirs downshifts going down a grade?

 

[Powder Extreme]

Melvin, I only thru out the up shift downshift scenario in case that may enlighten a tech about my particular transmission. Maybe they would say " oh that also indicates sensor such and such is giving incorrect values" or some other technical jargon to try and diagnose what is going on. Not to get into a battle about how to drive or which brand is better or any other drama related discussions. I'm guilty too for going back and forth about it.

In the end I just want to know if there is a problem with my transmission or if the Aisin truly Does Not work like other transmissions.

Cheers!

 

[MelvinPierce]

All is well. Seems like on other forum, posters have said that their Aisin DOES downshift going down grades, but that is only hearsay. No first hand info. Mine is due here next week. Can help you then! Good luck.

 

[Wertles]

How is my going down a 6% grade and my Aisin transmission shifting from 6th to 5th in tow/haul and E brake on hauling a load hearsay and not 1st hand info?

See post 5.

 

[Powder Extreme]

You didnt say any of that Wertles. You only said "mine does". Wasn't quite sure what you meant. Sorry

 

[Wertles]

Sorry. Should have been more specific. I was specifically answering your question in the original post "Is the Aisin supposed to downshift?"

 

[S.Morris]

My sons new 13 drw aisin will downshift to hold back load if exhaust brake not enough if towing with cruise on IF IN TOWHAUL. Exhaust brake retard is MUCH stronger than the 11 DRW Dmax he traded.

 

[Powder Extreme]

The dealer reflashed my PCM and TCM today, we will see if the transmission works. The mechanic had no clue if it was supposed to downshift or not and said he was unable to duplicate.

The second Reflash on the stereo still doesn't work, but they said Chrysler told them there is an additional flash due out soon and hopefully that will fix it. Sigh.

At least I can say other trucks work correctly, keep working on mine till it does too!

Thanks guys!

 

[Powder Extreme]

My sons new 13 drw aisin will downshift to hold back load if exhaust brake not enough if towing with cruise on IF IN TOWHAUL. Exhaust brake retard is MUCH stronger than the 11 DRW Dmax he traded.

Definitely was in tow/haul, but good to know it won't downshift if not, sometimes I prefer to let the speed run up in preparation for the next hill.

No doubt about how strong the brake is, considerably better than my '11 Duramax, which was way better than my '10 Dodge.

Chrysler did a lot of things right with these new trucks, once they work out the glitches they will really be one helluva machine.