Aisin transmission and defueling in the lower gears 1-2-3 ??

[NIsaacs]

My 22

???

 

[AH64ID]

???

I should stick to one thing at a time... My '18 .. ridden in, but haven't driven a 22. Thou the 22 I rode in was not laggy and had lots of pep.


At least I'm only 22 minutes from the end of my work Friday

 

[Turbo Terry]

You would like to test drive my ho 6 speed.

 

[slowmover]

What are the quarter-mile time differences from today vs twenty years ago when CR introduced?

Almost nothing given the “huge increase in power”.

 

[AH64ID]

What are the quarter-mile time differences from today vs twenty years ago when CR introduced?

Almost nothing given the “huge increase in power”.

Given the weight increase and shaving 2-3 seconds off the quarter mile time I would not say that's "almost nothing"

 

[bcbender]

FWIW, I am happy with my 20' HO... much better than my 04 HO and no lag like my 12' HO.. but maybe its me, as Terry has said, you just roll into it and it goes like a bat out of 4ell. I don't feel timid stepping out in traffic, just start rollng in the power and as it spools up let it eat...

Last week some @SS in a big fancy Merc SUV though he was gonna show me that 80 in a 70 wasn't fast enough between slower traffic groups and he tried to pass me on the right... I don't know if the truck is speed limited, but he got his hat handed to him and we were going real fast then. I think is Barbie wife let him have it too as he didn't try it again, but saw the discusted look in his face as I was pulling away.

 

[slowmover]

Given the weight increase and shaving 2-3 seconds off the quarter mile time I would not say that's "almost nothing"

Magazine tests show the same. About 17-secs.

What’s the weight increase? 1,000-lbs?

300HP at 7000Lbs is the same 1/4-mile time as 400HP at 8000Lbs.

That’s not an actual HP increase.

That the newer one gets up a grade without slowing as much (all else the same) really doesn’t mean much of anything unless one lives IN the mountains and tows medium/heavy. Braking distances are also not improved which DOES matter.

— What would have been good to see is a drop in fuel burn as is seen all across Class 8 engines which also feature more power than before.

Blaming emissions packages doesn’t work when seen this way.

The current CTD — driven sensibly — returns no higher MPG despite advances which should make it possible. Class 8 pulls harder on less fuel than before.

Operating Cost always matters. Here, the fuel burn is not offset by higher performance (revenue) as repair costs are far greater than early CR-spec. Operational life isn’t bettered enough to cover the gap either. Class 8 stayed closer to even (revenue increase offset repairs as mpg was bettered).

It’s not a Ram problem. Its the light duty truck market playing fools for what they’re worth if they believe no substantive performance increase in twenty years justifies an Ownership/Operation CPM increase.

The $45k ‘04 is a $70k ‘22 for a rough comp according to one inflation calculator.

But we’d have to increase the price of the ‘04 by a flat $10k (conservatively) for an equalizing handicap to match the higher life costs of the ‘22, wouldn’t we (leaving aside finance costs)?

Above and beyond HP/TQ increase (not justified by revenue offset, much less “performance”) = $10k penalty.

It’s probably higher.

.

 

[AH64ID]

Magazine tests show the same. About 17-secs.

What’s the weight increase? 1,000-lbs?

300HP at 7000Lbs is the same 1/4-mile time as 400HP at 8000Lbs.

That’s not an actual HP increase.

That the newer one gets up a grade without slowing as much (all else the same) really doesn’t mean much of anything unless one lives IN the mountains and tows medium/heavy. Braking distances are also not improved which DOES matter.

— What would have been good to see is a drop in fuel burn as is seen all across Class 8 engines which also feature more power than before.

Blaming emissions packages doesn’t work when seen this way.

The current CTD — driven sensibly — returns no higher MPG despite advances which should make it possible. Class 8 pulls harder on less fuel than before.

Operating Cost always matters. Here, the fuel burn is not offset by higher performance (revenue) as repair costs are far greater than early CR-spec. Operational life isn’t bettered enough to cover the gap either. Class 8 stayed closer to even (revenue increase offset repairs as mpg was bettered).

It’s not a Ram problem. Its the light duty truck market playing fools for what they’re worth if they believe no substantive performance increase in twenty years justifies an Ownership/Operation CPM increase.

The $45k ‘04 is a $70k ‘22 for a rough comp according to one inflation calculator.

But we’d have to increase the price of the ‘04 by a flat $10k (conservatively) for an equalizing handicap to match the higher life costs of the ‘22, wouldn’t we (leaving aside finance costs)?

Above and beyond HP/TQ increase (not justified by revenue offset, much less “performance”) = $10k penalty.

It’s probably higher.

.

15's for a 2022 and 17-18 for a 2003.

Your ET math is also off. Not sure how you're calculating it, but it's hard to prove a point with incorrect figures.

300hp @ 7000 lbs is a 16.6 ET; while 400hp @ 8000lbs is a 15.8 ET.

Noticeable braking improvement on my 18 over my 05, and that's just the service brakes.

I can pull better mpgs out of my 18 than my stock 05, so again poor figures. My modified 05, which returned better mpg than stock as well as a lot more power, could do better in some instances than the stock 18, but not all. They are generally ±5% which is hard to quantify as capability vs environmental.

Speed and braking are just one aspect of towing, handling is another and the 18 is night and day better than the 05, which was great too.

 

[Cummins12V98]

My DRW 15 AISIN right out of the box handles my 35k combined load without any modifications. That's West Coast Towing!

 

[lpennock]

300HP at 7000Lbs is the same 1/4-mile time as 400HP at 8000Lbs.

300hp @ 7000 lbs is a 16.6 ET; while 400hp @ 8000lbs is a 15.8 ET.

So I ran the 300hp/7000lb and 400HP/8000lb through two calculators and the results are:
https://onlinecalculator.guru/physics/quarter-mile-calculator/
300/7000: 17.97 400/8000: 17.07 which ihas the newer truck about 0.9 sec quicker.

https://racingcalcs.com/quarter-mile-calculator/
300/7000: 17.46 400/8000: 16.59 which again has the newer truck about 0.9 sec quicker.

So the calculators I found better align with Johns assertion of the newer trucks being faster. Of course those are only calculators so real world testing would show different results.

 

[AH64ID]

This is the calc I used.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php

 

[Cummins12V98]

This is the calc I used.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php

All this time I thought you were a mathematical genius.

 

[AH64ID]

All this time I thought you were a mathematical genius.

Just another tool in the kit

 

[Ozymandias]

It's the torque that gets the truck moving, and 04 to 22 almost doubled the torque output.

 

[Turbo Terry]

So the 99 275 rv edge DTT stock turbo had turbo lag. Not bad but still there. Probably could have been helped with a different turbo I think? But once the turbo spooled you were gone.Very hard shifts with 89 percent turbo.New 2022 is not turbo lag. Shifts are smooth. But definitely a defueling lag if you don’t roll the throttle on . Not a major disappoint but very different. Truck is plenty fast passing and entering traffic .It’s no slouch. But my good fuel mileage has gone away. My 99 did very well this one likes its diesel. Number 2 diesel is out now here. Truck is mostly empty and will fill today .Maybe I can gain a mile or two per gallon for summer driving. I hope so

 

[Tuesdak]

hat the newer one gets up a grade without slowing as much (all else the same) really doesn’t mean much of anything unless one lives IN the mountains and tows medium/heavy. Braking distances are also not improved which DOES matter.

— What would have been good to see is a drop in fuel burn as is seen all across Class 8 engines which also feature more power than before.

As I tell my dad: "Hold on to your hat, Dad, because THIS isn't your Oldsmobile Diesel!"

He's had to get said hat out of the back seat a couple times that it fell off. (It's also not the old diesel fuel of the 1980's as ULSD of today isn't as MPG friendly esp. with the Bio and alcohol mixed in it.)

It's door-handles unloaded with the HO from a light vs. a 3500 crewcab LB Hemi. Even the same color. HP-HP vs. more TQ unloaded doesn't do much for a 1/4 mile esp with the gearing of 1st being a waste of time, ET, to even use unloaded.

If anyone wants a preview of what the "end of the horsepower wars" will look like check out the big vans and the engine choices offered. Like the Class 8 generally none are 4X4.

3.0L Diesel in Sprinters.

GM 2500/3500 van: 4.3L V6 276 hp 298 TQ (An improvement over the 200HP of the ~1990-2000 era), 4 banger diesel with less power, 2.8L 181HP/369TQ, than the forgotten anemic IDI 6.5 Turbo Diesel 200HP/400TQ, and 6.6L V8 gas 401HP/464TQ that replaced the 6.0L gas 327HP/373TQ (E85 and CNG were options on the 6.0L V8 and not offered on the 6.6L). GM doesn't make a 1500 van or minivan anymore.

RAM is all FWD...

Our OEM's are too C H E A P to build a good manual transmission AND clutch. Look at some old VW Rabbits that had the throwout bearing running in trans oil and used a pushrod to work the clutch. Yeah: Compare to CHEAP. The aftermarket had to "fix" the NV5600 oiling problem, the G56 had the wrong OD ratio, DMF trouble... Yet the 2WD 2003 RAM of mine delivered some of the best MPG with the MT in it vs. the slushboxes.

Those wishing for more gears behind a Cummins may REGRET IT with all the 'degraded wet fluid' torque converter shudder and other major design flaws the 6 and 8 speed GM transmissions have. GM isn't alone in 6+ number of gears trouble of course.

Isn't it like 9-18 gears in a Class 8 with 2 gears for reverse?

 

[Turbo Terry]

Ok I got a full tank of spring #2 in Alaska today. Truck seems to like the added btu Runs a bit more quite I think. Folks in the southern states will think I’m crazy but they probably get #2 year round and don’t know the difference in their truck

 

[brillmtb1]

So i dont stomp on my throttle and there is lots of lag. While the quarter mile time may be faster for newer truck that doesn’t say anything for just smoothly getting i to traffic and if you pull off and come back on the throttle your in big trouble

If the newer model years can break the rear wheels thats more than mine can so they reprogrammed the lag.

I think they overdid the programming in my mind to limit transmission warranty issues. When i program with smarty i can take out a lot of this and with only the 30hp gain so that tells me they way overdid the programming

 

[JPM]

I drove the 2020's and compare them to the 2019 and 2018. The 2020's would immediately slip the tires on throttle input during takeoff being a night and day improvement over the delays in the 2018 I have. I simply drive around it on the 2018 and WILL NOT step out in traffic when the situation requires immediate acceleration not "accelerate when it feels like it": Because it won't. I have had to bail on the brakes after it's delay is over and it decides to get moving as traffic has suddenly changed like a last second 3 lane change from oncoming traffic before an intersection.

Only the HO was acceptable to me going from a 2003 MT in the 2018/2019. Mostly dump the clutch and stall saver got it moving N O W on the 2003. The 2018 delay from a dig or step out of the way at 65 MPH ... I said the heck with a new RAM until I drove the HO. You got traffic merging and a choice to be ahead or burning the brakes behind to let them in, more than one in a line of vehicles being ahead is sometimes the best choice for smooth traffic flow.

IMO It wants the proper turbo setting, rail pressure, and the proper gear before rolling on power. Even the 2008 Duramax we had would take time to get back on it if you let off say aborting a pass then using the passing zone after it cleared up a moment later. Going off the rails I read where improvements to the actual rail itself can help with delays getting the power on.

Fun tip of the day: Powerbraking through a turn just to keep the power "on" and avoid it's delays getting power back on will trip the stuck accelerator nanny protection mode. Then you got No Power.

At the last May Madness I believe it was? I test drove a 19 DRW with the AISIN. I hammered it and it felt exactly the same as my 15 with aISIN. All I heard about the truck is it would smoke the tires, NOT!!! So it sure did have torque management no different as mine.
so what is it?

 

[Cummins12V98]

JPM, what are you asking or saying???