Allison transmission

[AKaiser]

It didn't have the traditional OBD-II port, it had that funky looking port with the German name that I can't seem to recall at the moment. :-laf

What, a Deutsch (pr. Doytch) conector maybe?

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Yup - I'm pretty sure that's the one.

Round... 5 or 6 pins, IIRC.



It's "Deutsch" - just found the spelling online...



Matt

 

[AKaiser]

Yup - I'm pretty sure that's the one.

Round... 5 or 6 pins, IIRC.



It's "Deutsch" - just found the spelling online...



Matt

Right, pronounced "Doytch" as in the language of the Germans.



For the longest time, I thought they were calling them Deutz connectors (maybe they were. )

 

[Philip]

Guy's I went for a ride in Gmac's truck Saturday night. All I can say is



I want an allison now.



I had planed on rebuilding and swaping in a 47RH I have this coming spring. That 47 is going to find a new home now.



Gmac's allison shifted firm and positive on every shift. The lockup converter kicked in with 2nd gear and stayed in threw the top gears. The shifts weren't brutal like you would need on a Dodge trans with as much power as he was throwing at it. In tow/haul mode the engine braking was very good. The converter stayed in down to 2nd gear. Throw an exhaust brake on and you have a very good tow package.

 

[SMorneau]

As a former owner of a DTT modified 47RH and current owner of a bone-stock LCT-1000, I won't be going back to a 47RH/RE. The Allison was designed with a clean sheet to take abuse, the Chrysler trannies were slowly upgraded over time to maybe just barely make it to the end of the warranty period with a gentle right foot and OEM engine.



Matt

Using that logic you should probably dump your cummins and get a Dmax! The cummins engine was not designed for a pickup truck on a clean slate. Evolution is sometimes better! New designs for many products are done using highly developed models that allow the designers to specifically design for finite life (warranty period?) , low cost, and no allowance for customer upgrades. I am speaking in general here, not with regards to the Allison products which I know nothing about. But when that designer sits down with his tools he can use them in many different ways depending upon his goals. Evolution can build upon knowledge that a new person may never get.



I have personally seen product designs that were impractical and near impossible to build because some guy, who usually has no experience actually making anything, sat in front of his computer where a model told him that holding tolerances that no one is capable of would improve performance. Maybe, maybe not. Most likely the model if incorrect because it could never be validated because such parts cannot actually be made, a possibility that is lost on a lot of designers who are good at manipulating models but don't fully understand the basis for models. I worked in the disk drive industry where this type of stuff drove up costs far faster than performance.



Sorry to hijack the thread I just felt it was time to harrass Matt a little.



Scott

 

[Oil Burner]

Designers have personalities just like every other line of work. Some are technically very strong but weak in practical knowledge... . others are the opposite and a few reside in the middle.



I agree with SMorneau in that I have heard many machinists compain about the tolerances that the Engineer called for. The best teachers I had were the ones that spent time in the "real" world and told us to only call for tolerances that we needed. I just saw a basic tool drawing last week that was a very simle, basic tool but every tolerance went to 4 decimal places...



Unfortunately, most of the pressure now is to reduce costs which means that you have to push the limits of the design. Some ideas that would have been laughed at 20 years ago are being considered as serious projects now.



Well, this has been WAY off topic so I'll add this...



I'd love an Allison in my truck. I'm tired of shifting gears :-laf.

 

[therabbittree]

Oil Burner . I noticed your sig, with the crew cab. . thats nice!. . I thought i remember another one that was a different color. . I my pm you for more details etc. . nice truck. .

Thanks,

Deo

 

[Oil Burner]

Thanks Deo. I'll answer any questions I can. I've seen a few others on this site that have been made by different companies.



feel free to pm me.



Jason

 

[MMcCallie]

I've ridden in Scott Countryman's Super Duty with a Cummins and an ATS Allison. His destroked.com kits are unbeatable in strength and quality. I instantly noticed that the deeper 1st gear gets the truck moving quicker than his old ATS 4R100. He likes the lower crusing RPMs as well.



Last time i talked to him he was still trying to work out the electronics. His truck makes way over 600 hp and the transmission goes into limp mode when he romps on it. Has someone figured out how to get around that problem?

 

[GMac]

he needs someone that knows how to program the tcm to keep it from doing that. It is not programmed quite right if it is doing that.

 

[AKaiser]

Anyone that was on DTR reading the thread about the allison transmission swap, you will need to come here for the factual info now. Brayden and I (GMac) got kicked off of DTR because of Opie running his mouth on stuff he doesn't know on DTR. So come here for info.

That has to be the single longest (timewise) running thread in any forum's history. Started on Nov 7, 2006 and the last post (so far) is on Oct 23, 2007. Mostly b/c Opie doesn't know when to leave well enough alone. I just finished the thread, and look at my timestamp. Sheesh #@$%!



I WANNA!!!

 

[LanceD]

do you guys know if I can get an allison out of a bus and buy all the good internals for the GM allison 1000 to put in it? basically make it the same? I really don't want to pay for shipping one of those things out here, but there is a bus junkyard with a few cummins busses and im pretty sure they have allisons in them.

 

[therabbittree]

unless they have new late model buses, they probbaly have allisons in them but not 1000 series . . probably 545s or 645... ie no overdrive and not worth it. . the 1000's are pretty late model most of thoses busses would still be in service...

just a thought. . otherwise everyone would have one. .

Later

deo

 

[mrtwister]

From what I have heard, under extreme horsepower situations the electronics on the allison are to slow and will burn up the drive plates ( discs). Yes they have much larger shafts and components, but for the amount of money it takes to install an Allison you can build a bulletproff 47/48 re/rh. I have been seeing some GM trucks putting the 48re/rh behind the Duramax in truck pulling situations. On the other hand it would be nice to have a 6 speed auto behind the 2nd gen. cummins. Not really trying to take sides on the subject, just looking at pros and cons.

 

[LanceD]

I had a chat with Dave Goerend about the allison and dodge trans differences, and he told me he would take a built allison over a built dodge trans any day of the week for sled pulling, drag racing, towing, etc

 

[GMac]

it all depends on the programming of the tcm. IMO, I think it is far superior to a 47 or 48re. I will never go back to one of those trannys.

 

[MMcCallie]

Too bad there isn't some manual-automatic valve body for the Allison 1000. I purchased an Allison years ago to put behind my Cummins. Ran into nothing but dead ends on how to make it shift.

Now, i think i'm happier with my BTS 4R100 anyway because it is virtually indestructible and i can shift it manually until i can install an electronic controller. Also, a built Allison gets to costing near $10,000, which is more than just adding a Gear Vendors overdrive to what i now have, which would also offer even more shifts. Also, since i'm fairly hardcore into 4 wheeling, i try to maintain as much ground clearance as possible, the Allison really is huge. I wonder what the new 6L80s are like.

 

[GMac]

$10,000?? Bend over!! Where does a built allison cost that much? The allison doesn't hang any lower than a 47re does. They are a bigger transmission but they don't hang lower. When you have it programmed right, why do you want to manually shift it. For that matter, you might as well have a 5 or 6 speed manual.

 

[MMcCallie]

The top of the line ATS Allison 1000 is roughly $8,120, which includes their version of the PCS TCU minus shipping or installation with a core charge of over $2,100. So i guess actual costs would exceed $10,000 for those of us who require the ultimate in durability, especially after factoring in the costs of a conversion kit. One can have a top of the line Chrysler or Ford transmission for far less. How many miles would it take to recoup fuel savings from the swap?

If anyone has had success in programming an Allison that has been swapped into a Dodge or Ford having no issues with over 600 hp to the ground, my buddy would be interested in knowing about it for his truck. User programmable being ideal but with what software and hardware?

When i had my Allison on the workbench it sure seemed big. I'm surprised that ground clearance is is the same, especially with the drop shape of the housing around the torque converter. Good to know. I may someday have money to play with and consider the Allison again.

Even if shifting an automatic manually, no clutch is required and you still get the benefit of torque multiplication from the torque converter, two features unavailable in a manual transmission. The way the aftermarket has come to the aid of automatic transmissions in the past several years has made them more durable under extreme usage like sled pulling and street racing than manual transmissions.

 

[GMac]

The top of the line ATS Allison 1000 is roughly $8,120, which includes their version of the PCS TCU minus shipping or installation with a core charge of over $2,100. So i guess actual costs would exceed $10,000 for those of us who require the ultimate in durability, especially after factoring in the costs of a conversion kit. One can have a top of the line Chrysler or Ford transmission for far less. How many miles would it take to recoup fuel savings from the swap?



If anyone has had success in programming an Allison that has been swapped into a Dodge or Ford having no issues with over 600 hp to the ground, my buddy would be interested in knowing about it for his truck. User programmable being ideal but with what software and hardware?



When i had my Allison on the workbench it sure seemed big. I'm surprised that ground clearance is is the same, especially with the drop shape of the housing around the torque converter. Good to know. I may someday have money to play with and consider the Allison again.



Even if shifting an automatic manually, no clutch is required and you still get the benefit of torque multiplication from the torque converter, two features unavailable in a manual transmission. The way the aftermarket has come to the aid of automatic transmissions in the past several years has made them more durable under extreme usage like sled pulling and street racing than manual transmissions.

ATS? That is the first problem. They are expensive on everything they sell. They don't sell a stand alone tcm for the allison. I know that. I have 4 dodges with 2 more on the way with allisons and they all work fine. One guy is close to 600hp with his and mine is about 750 with stock shafts. I will how much power I have monday. :-laf I totally agree with you on the durability compared to a manual transmission.