Am I over loaded?

[Philsram]

I just recently purschased a 30' 5th wheel that is used. The dry weight is 10,000 lbs. The tow vehicle is a 95' Dodge 3/4 ton, 2 wheel drive standard cab long bed cummins with an auto trans. and a 3. 53 rear end. I just put on a new set of michelin 245/75/16 E load tires. The hitch is rated for 15,000 lbs and I have a prodigy brake control system installed. This will be my first pull with this trailer and will be realitively flat driving. I know the data is in my owners manual but the manual for the truck is missing. Am I overloading this vehicle unsafely? Can anyone help me with this, thanks PW





P. S. wish I had at least a 4. 10 rear end.

 

[klenger]

The best way to determine if you are overloaded is to hook up the trailer and get weighed. A truck scale will provide the weight of the truck front and rear axles and trailer axles separetly. A 3/4 ton truck usually has a GVWR of 8800 lbs. If the combined front and rear axle weights of the truck are over 8800 lbs, you are over weight. Since you have a 2WD, you are not in as bad of shape as I am (I pull a 10K 5er). I expect that you will find that you are somewhat overweight, but it's up to you to determine if it's acceptable or not. You should be able to find the truck GVWR on a sticker on the driver's door opening. Do you have a 5 speed or auto? The auto's usually don't have as high of a tow rating as the standard transmissions.



Check out the page on my website shown below for more info on towing weights.



http://www.klenger.net/arctic-fox/weight/index.html

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by PWellwood

Am I overloading this vehicle... .

Yes, you will be over your 8,800 lb GVWR if you assume the 5ver will weigh probably 11,000 lbs by the time you load it and 20% (2,200 lbs) of that weight will be carried by the truck as GVW. If the truck weighs 7,000 lbs with full fuel tank, passengers and gear, you'll be at 9,200 lbs GVW.



I can't comment specifically on GCW versus GCWR since I don't know what your truck's GCWR is, but I doubt that it's 18,000 lbs with the automatic. More than likely it's 16,000 GCWR, and a 7,000 lb truck plus an 11,000 lb 5ver will put you 2,000 over GCWR at 18,000 lbs GCW if that's the case.

... . unsafely?

That's a subjective decision that only you can make. Back in 2000 my wife had to have a new 36' triple slide 5ver. The 1996 3500 V-10 automatic had been OK to tow our previous 30' single slide, but we were way over the ratings with the new 13,500 lb 5ver. We lived with this for a couple of years until I bought the new truck (see signature). We're now running 10,380 GVW (10,500 GVWR) and 21,180 GCW (21,500 GCWR).



Rusty

 

[ronco]

PWellwood,



I have the same basic truck as you. I weighed my truck with a full load of fuel, me and the 5'er hitch (basically ready to tow). The numbers came out as 3600 pounds on front axle and 2700 pounds on rear axle. I weigh 250 myself. That comes to 6300 pounds total with a truck gross of 8800. I think our trucks are rated at 16K truck and trailer. Is it overloaded? IMHO-probably. You can build enough power to tow without question, but, it probably is not safe. You must consider stopping and handling issues when loaded with that much stuff. Keep doing your homework and see where that leads you. HTH



ronco

 

[Snow man]

Pwellwood, I knwo you are over the rated GCWR of 16000lbs. I woudlnt be concerned with that at all if it were mine. ID be concerned with the kingpin weight on the rear axle,and the truck GVWR. Since you have a reg cab 2wd,you have the best truck short of a dually to carry weight with. If you can keep the truck at 6400(should be possible),you will have 2400 for the kingpin. You wil be close,probably over by 200 lbs or so. I would tow it if it were mine,make sure your tires are E rated,and pump them to 80 psi before you hook up. Oh yeah,I almost forgot keep the truck in 3rd(OD off) below 65mph,and anytime the truck is having a hard time holding speed,drop her into drive. You may want to consider upgrading the plastic trans connectors on the cooler lines if it hasnt already been done. A trailer of that weight will get the trans hot,and a blown hotline will smoke the trans by the time you realize it blew.

 

[Underdog]

If you have to ask,you already know the answer.

I doubt your truck has a 16,000# GCWR with the automatic.

If it had a 5 speed,it would be 16,000#. I'm almost certain

the auto will be less. Forget about dry weight. Load the

trailer with the things you would need for extended travel,

then weigh it. Load your truck,including fuel and people,

then weigh it. Weigh both at the same time. Subtract the

weight of your p/u from the total weight of both vehicles.

You might be shocked by the actual weight. Just off the top

of my head,I would guess that your p/u is rated to tow a

10,000# trailer.

4:10 gears would possibly give you another 1,000# of towing.

 

[Fireman]

YEP!

PW,



You are overweight. I used to have a rig that was about the same GCVW, and had 3:55 gears and an automatic. IMO you have two real problems. One, too much weight on the rear tires. Two, that transmission and gear ratio are the absolute worst combination for towing. That said, I towed like that for a couple of years and survived. If you must, make sure that your tires are inflated to the max pressure and drive a little slower so as not to generate as much heat in the tires. As mentioned earlier tow in direct drive (3rd).



Ron,



250



Be careful out there,

Fireman

 

[ronco]

Fireman, don't start something!



ronco



And don't be jealous of my "full figure" either.

 

[Reddog1]

I agree with Snow man. While I don't want to start a war and do not intentionally want to hurt anyone’s feelings, I take most of these numbers with a grain of salt.



If two trucks are identical, except one has a manual trans and the other has an auto, maybe someone can explain to me what that has to do with the weight you can tow. I have seen more than one person towing in the wrong gear with both transmissions.



Stopping? No matter your weight, you must allow for stopping depending on your load and road conditions. Do all trailers have the same breaking ability? If not, how can a truck manufacture state towing capacity based on braking?



I am concerned with tire load capacity. Although I know there must be some room for error, I prefer to have more tires than I need. I will not run less than load range E.



Some people are overloaded driving a VW bug. Others are safe driving a big rig. I do not believe a truck manufacture can make that determination.



I used to have a 69 GMC 3/4 ton that could haul less than 200 lbs. if you went by the numbers on the door.





Thank smart and drive defensively.





Wayne



P. S. All Rams do not weigh 7000 lbs. or more.

 

[Elite1]

Originally posted by PWellwood

I just recently purschased a 30' 5th wheel that is used. The dry weight is 10,000 lbs. The tow vehicle is a 95' Dodge 3/4 ton, 2 wheel drive standard cab long bed cummins with an auto trans. and a 3. 53 rear end. I just put on a new set of michelin 245/75/16 E load tires. The hitch is rated for 15,000 lbs and I have a prodigy brake control system installed. This will be my first pull with this trailer and will be realitively flat driving. I know the data is in my owners manual but the manual for the truck is missing. Am I overloading this vehicle unsafely? Can anyone help me with this, thanks PW





P. S. wish I had at least a 4. 10 rear end.

PW, I basically have the same truck, except mine is an ext. cab & a 96'... . here are the ratings from the owners manual:



Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) 8,800 lb

Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) 16,000 lb



Payload 3,075 lb*

Max Trailer Weight 10,500 lb (hitch)

Max Trailer Weight 5th wheel application 12,500 lb

***amazing the 4:10 rearend is rated at 12,300 lb !



* The trailer weight allowance is specified for a vehicle equipped with optional trailer tow package and/or proper hitch. Payload and trailer weight allowances must be reduced by weight of passengers and non-drivetrain options.



Tongue weights: Max tongue weight 900 lbs. , must be equal to 10% of Gross Trailer Weight but no more than 15% .



**If you plan to utilize your vehicle to pull a trailer for a significant number of miles, reduce the potential for rear axle overheating by replacing rear axle lubricant with an SAE 75w140 synthetic gear lubricant. (I made this mistake, I now run Mobile1 gear lube!)

 

[bmoeller]

According to the TDR Buyer's Guide, it says that the '95 2500 GCWR w/3. 54 gears is 14,100 max. for both man. and auto. trannys. 16,000 with 4. 10 gears.

 

[Elite1]

PW, by the way I gave you the specs for a 96' 2500 reg. cab, 4x2. Hope it helps, Marty... . ps- I think you can do it, depending on how much cargo/people you bring along. Just take it real slow, especially down hills, use your trailer brakes alot.

 

[Reddog1]

Does anyone know what the 1900-LB difference between the two different gear ratios has to do with safety?



If you were towing in non-mountain areas, I really can see no reason for the different towing capacities.



I have a 96' 2500 Ext. cab, 4x2 with 3:54 gears and a US Gear set-up as an under drive which is about 4:10 gears. Respectfully, does this mean my Ram is safer towing in under drive? If so, maybe it would be safer in under drive even when not towing.



Wayne

 

[Elite1]

Originally posted by Reddog1

Does anyone know what the 1900-LB difference between the two different gear ratios has to do with safety?



If you were towing in non-mountain areas, I really can see no reason for the different towing capacities.



I have a 96' 2500 Ext. cab, 4x2 with 3:54 gears and a US Gear set-up as an under drive which is about 4:10 gears. Respectfully, does this mean my Ram is safer towing in under drive? If so, maybe it would be safer in under drive even when not towing.



Wayne

Reddog, In my 96' owners manual, in 5th wheel application it says, you can tow 200lbs. more with 354's than with 410's... go figure! (auto 354-12500, auto 410-12300)

 

[Fireman]

Reddog,



Gear ratio has nothing to do with safety, the 4:10 just provides a mechanical advantage to pull larger loads.



Fireman

 

[Snow man]

The 4. 10 is also much easier on the auto transmission. Especially cruising the 3. 54 trucks run about 1500-1700 at 57-65mph,this is the worst RPM to tow at. A 4. 10 truck will hit 2000RPM at 63-65 mph ,much better,even cruising at 55 will gvie you about 1750-RPM.

 

[Reddog1]

I do not mean to sound like the post nazi, but if I understood correctly, PWellwood's concern was safety.



While I have not yet towed my 5er, I do have both gear ratios in the same truck. This will allow me to make direct comparisons on the advantage of both ratios. My transmission (auto) has all of the stuff DDT has and it was built in Canada. The transmission absolutely does not tow like a stock transmission.



I think most of us have lots to offer to various posts. Maybe it's just the typing that prevents us from being clear sometimes.



Snow man and Fireman made clear valid and valuable post relative to advantage of gear ratio.



Elite1 provided us with valuable info also. Elite1 did not state nor imply the weight difference was due to safety.



My preference is that folks provide me with as much info as they can. It is great when it is clear that one statement is based on safety and another is based on efficiency.



If you crunch the numbers, my 5er and Ram combo will be at max or a little over (according to Dodge). I would be very foolish to ignore that my Ram will be less safe with any load than it is empty.



As an after thought, do we get extra safety weight with ABS and RWAL breaks on our Rams? It is my understanding they improve braking. How about after market pads and shoes?







Wayne

 

[Underdog]

Thank's Reddog 1, I went back and re-read ,PWellwood's

post. His last sentence "Am I overloading this vehicle unsafely ?"

Somehow,I let that slip by me. In my opinion,he is not

overloading "unsafely". He will however,have difficulty

pulling the weight unless,he upgrades his transmission

and tweaks the engine.

Some people might think that I am being "unsafe" pulling

my 12,000 + # , 5th. wheel with my 1992 w250. I don't.

I did change from 3:55's to 4:10 gears,put 3" brakes on

the rear and other mods. The mods. were necessary

because I needed more pulling power. I was having to run

in 3rd gear anytime I encountered a headwind. Wih the

lower gears and engine mods. , headwinds are no longer

a problem.

In my first response,I was thinking that he was asking about

what his truck is rated to tow. IMO factory ratings have

little to do with the "real world".

 

[Elite1]

Originally posted by Snow man

The 4. 10 is also much easier on the auto transmission. Especially cruising the 3. 54 trucks run about 1500-1700 at 57-65mph,this is the worst RPM to tow at. A 4. 10 truck will hit 2000RPM at 63-65 mph ,much better,even cruising at 55 will gvie you about 1750-RPM.

Snowman, If I were towing that much weight in my 354,auto, I would keep it in 3rd gear, and cruise at 55. BTW: very important to put synthetics in the rearend, just as the owners manual says, if you plan on hauling heavy loads.

 

[Reddog1]

Underdog - I have a slid-in camper that will really put the engine to work with the 5:54 gears in a headwind. Not only do I drop into 3rd with the 3:54's, sometimes 2nd (very strong wind) would be necessary. This was with the stock engine and transmission.



As I mentioned earlier, I have a 5er that I have not yet towed. I have a trip planned in a couple of weeks. The trailer weight on the plate is 11000 pounds.



I replaced the tires. In passing, I might mention there is different load ratings on Load Range E trailer tires. I greased the wheel bearings, checked and adjusted the brakes.



Can you think of anything I have missed?



I have a trailer brake that was installed by the previous owner of my Ram. He pulled a 35-foot 5er. It is a Toshiba (?). I don't know which model. Do you guys think I could improve the braking (SAFETY) by going to the Jordan?





Wayne