Amsoil not API certified

[Elite1]

Originally posted by Pit Bull

Elite1, why don't you run Mobil1 in your CTD, with its CF rating it should be fine, makes you wonder why Mobil even makes Delvac 1 synthetic for diesels when we could all just use Mobil 1. I'm basing this on the fact that my 2000 service manual states that my truck only requires CE rated oil your 1996 should not require anything above a CE rated oil. By the way Valvoline makes Premium blue, they have a contract with Cummins to be the factory fill, Cummins does not "recommend" them anymore than any other oil that would meet the oil spec's for that year engine. But Premium Blue would be a good oil to use in your engine.

Pit Bull, I believe Mobil made Delvac1, a heavy duty diesel oil, for the trucking industry. I talked to a trucker who drives petroleum tanker trucks, he fights the traffic in Los Angeles daily, so they are hard miles with heavy loads, they use Delvac1 and their change intervals are 100,000 miles! They change the filters of course more often, and take oil samples to the lab for verification.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Elite1

Pit Bull, I believe Mobil made Delvac1, a heavy duty diesel oil, for the trucking industry. I talked to a trucker who drives petroleum tanker trucks, he fights the traffic in Los Angeles daily, so they are hard miles with heavy loads, they use Delvac1 and their change intervals are 100,000 miles! They change the filters of course more often, and take oil samples to the lab for verification.

Your right, that Delvac 1 is expensive. I checked and I can get it for $21. 00 per gallon, but to get that price I have to buy a 4 gallon case. I'm still trying to decide between staying with Rotella T 15w40 and changing every 5K miles or going with the Delvac and changing at 7500 miles. I know the Delvac would be better this winter. Wife might kill me if I come home with an $84. 00 case of oil

 

[fest3er]

Actually, reading one reference, diesel engine oils are not API 'certified'; only oils for gasoline engines are 'certified'. So this whole argu... er, discussion about API certification of oils for our motors is moot.

Also, CF is a designation used to indicate that S-class oils are suitable for used in turbocharged gasoline engines.

I invite readers to persuse http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g52.pdf to glean more info. It is about 275KB, PDF. The explanation of service classifications starts on p. 3.

Fest3er

 

[Elite1]

Originally posted by fest3er

Actually, reading one reference, diesel engine oils are not API 'certified'; only oils for gasoline engines are 'certified'. So this whole argu... er, discussion about API certification of oils for our motors is moot.



Also, CF is a designation used to indicate that S-class oils are suitable for used in turbocharged gasoline engines.



I invite readers to persuse http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g52.pdf to glean more info. It is about 275KB, PDF. The explanation of service classifications starts on p. 3.



Fest3er

Fest3er, Re: CF designation... . this is from www.bobistheoilguy.com



"Okay, but how great? Your car's manual tells what motor oil you should use, and with few exceptions, that description will consist of only two specifications. One is for viscosity, such as 10W-30; and another is for the API service grade, SJ being the current one for gasoline passenger cars.

The buck-a-quart multigrades meet these standards, as do the synthetics.

The synthetics, on the back label, claim compliance with more standards, but even if you know what they mean, they seem beside the point for U. S. passenger cars. For example, should you care about diesels if you drive a gasoline burner? API service CF is the oldest of the current specs for light-duty diesels; some synthetics list that one. Synthetics may also list ACEA A1 and B1, which are European specs roughly equivalent to API gasoline and diesel specs. "

 

[Elite1]

Fester, I read through your Amsoil literature..... I see what you mean, but there is conflicting info. On page 3 (pages are labeled on the bottom) It states that CF oils are for use in Diesel engines... . then on page 4, it says that SJ/CF (which mobil1 is) oils are appropriate for use in turbo gas engines, but they are not appropriate for use in turbo diesel engines, though the "CF" may make it appear so.

Here is my question for Amsoil... . if this is true, then why does Mercedes Benz put Mobil1 as the factory fill in all of their Turbo diesels, and reccomend it for maintenance? I suggest a representitive from Amsoil contact the engineers at Mercedes and let them know of their error!

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by Elite1

I suggest a representitive from Amsoil contact the engineers at Mercedes and let them know of their error!

ROTFLMAO



Amsoil is the best I've seen at company hype, they can print 10,000 words and say nothing relevant.

 

[Hammer]

Ok,So What have we learned here...

Since the moderators will not lock this product bashing thread up.



NOTHING !!!!!!!



Bottom line is this,you use whatever brand oil you want and accept the concenquences of your action as you do with your B. O. M. B. s. I would only have to wonder how many,when I read all the truck signatures of those posting here on this thread, have already violated the Cummins/Dodge warranties for one reason or another and all they want to do is appear to be the newly appointed "warranty white knights" since the others have long been since banished.



Man I thought this crapola was done along time ago..... Andy

 

[Texas Diesel]

Bashing? I thought this was a nice, well mannered discussion, been fun actually.



The truth only hurts when it should...





With everyone behaving themselves, why would you want it locked?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Bottom line is this,you use whatever brand oil you want and accept the concenquences of your action as you do with your B. O. M. B. s. "



Exactly the point that has been made - use non-certified, non-DC approved stuff at YOUR OWN RISK! And ONE way potential users can be made AWARE of those possible risks, is thru threads such as THIS one which openly discuss BOTH sides of the issue - as long as we maintain an acceptable degree of civility, just as we seem to be doing...



"I would only have to wonder how many,when I read all the truck signatures of those posting here on this thread, have already violated the Cummins/Dodge warranties for one reason or another and all they want to do is appear to be the newly appointed "warranty white knights" since the others have long been since banished. "



I, for one, have NO need or desire to be viewed as a "warranty white knight" - and yeah, MY warranty IS already void due to engine mods - but I *still* want the best appropriate stuff in and ON my truck, I often contribute my own take on various issues of product benefits - or liability - as they pertain to a NUMBER of items that frequently pop up here - many of which I have first-hand personal experience...



If THAT somehow makes me a "white-knight wannabe" in the eyes of some - so be it!



ONE valuable item of interest *I* have picked up on here, in this thread, is the publicly professed purpose of Amsoil's insistance in avoiding API certification on some of their lubes due the the API's reduced standard related to wear inhibiting compounds in newer spec'd oils - if THAT is true, I'm quite likely to be a new Amsoil convert myself -and would NOT have known, except for THIS thread!

 

[Pit Bull]

I have enjoyed this thread and learned somethings. I would use Amsoil if my warranty was not intact. From what I have read it is as good or better then Delvac 1 synthetic. We have a number of knowledgeable members and I really enjoy their opinions. When someone disagrees with me, it gives me the opportunity to reexamine my reasoning. Funny part is that I often find I've been mistaken or somethings have changed in the world that altered what I thought was the truth. Example, the government wants to lower pollution, this affects the rules the API and automakers apply to how our oil should be made. Does this improve the performance of the oil? Yes for decreasing pollution, but what about the performance and longevity of our engines? Some of this information is coming to light in this thread. That is a good thing, in my opinion.

Keep it coming.

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by Elite1
Fester, I read through your Amsoil literature..... I see what you mean, but there is conflicting info. On page 3 (pages are labeled on the bottom) It states that CF oils are for use in Diesel engines... . then on page 4, it says that SJ/CF (which mobil1 is) oils are appropriate for use in turbo gas engines, but they are not appropriate for use in turbo diesel engines, though the "CF" may make it appear so.
Here is my question for Amsoil... . if this is true, then why does Mercedes Benz put Mobil1 as the factory fill in all of their Turbo diesels, and reccomend it for maintenance? I suggest a representitive from Amsoil contact the engineers at Mercedes and let them know of their error!

SJ-CF oils are not suitable for use in diesel engines. "Oils whose API service class begins with a "S" listing are meant for use in gasoline engines only. " The "CF" addition indicates the oil has high quality VI improvers, and thus is suitable for use in a turbo-charged gasoline engine. Contrast that with an oil bearing the "CF service slass; it would be suitable for use in a diesel engine (indirect injected, and other diesel engines used in off-road apps, including diesel fuel with greater than 0. 5% sulfur).

As to why M-B specifies Mobil-1, I don't know. And it doesn't really matter. Automakers are free to specify whatever oil they want; one can only assume they have performed tests that show that Mobil-1 provides suitable lubrication.

Fest3er

 

[Elite1]

Originally posted by fest3er

SJ-CF oils are not suitable for use in diesel engines. "Oils whose API service class begins with a "S" listing are meant for use in gasoline engines only. " The "CF" addition indicates the oil has high quality VI improvers, and thus is suitable for use in a turbo-charged gasoline engine. Contrast that with an oil bearing the "CF service slass; it would be suitable for use in a diesel engine (indirect injected, and other diesel engines used in off-road apps, including diesel fuel with greater than 0. 5% sulfur).



As to why M-B specifies Mobil-1, I don't know. And it doesn't really matter. Automakers are free to specify whatever oil they want; one can only assume they have performed tests that show that Mobil-1 provides suitable lubrication.



Fest3er

Fester, If what you say (or is it amsoils web page) is true. I would think that Mobil1 would be in for a false advertisement law suit, or truth in labeling suit. Next time your in an auto parts store, or at a Mobile station, pick up a bottle of Mobil1 and look at the API service rating... it will say SJ/CF, in the "donut rating", then below that it says, "Exceeds API Service SJ, SH/CF warranty requirements for gasoline and diesel engines. "..... In another part of the label it says, "Outstanding protection for gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines. "

 

[TxDieselKid]

care to repeat tht in english......

SJ-CF oils are not suitable for use in diesel engines. "Oils whose API service class begins with a "S" listing are meant for use in gasoline engines only. " The "CF" addition indicates the oil has high quality VI improvers, and thus is suitable for use in a turbo-charged gasoline engine. Contrast that with an oil bearing the "CF service slass; it would be suitable for use in a diesel engine (indirect injected, and other diesel engines used in off-road apps, including diesel fuel with greater than 0. 5% sulfur).

... . and THAT is just one reason why i buy Rotella T



Flame suit zipped up, and on, clicking "Post"



The Calmer Kid,

Andrew

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q
"Bottom line is this,you use whatever brand oil you want and accept the concenquences of your action as you do with your B. O. M. B. s. "

Exactly the point that has been made - use non-certified, non-DC approved stuff at YOUR OWN RISK!

Perhaps other year service manuals differ from my '98 SM, which states on page 9-3, "In gasoline engines, use an engine oil that is API Service Grade Certified. ... In diesel engines, use an engine oil that conforms to API Service Grade CF4 or CG-4/SH. " Thus, for my '98 12V, Dodge do not require that I use an API Service Grade Certified oil in my Cummins engine. In fact, there is *no* "API Certified" oil available anywhere for diesel engines.

Perhaps if I keep posting this information, wording it differently each time, the meaning will get through a *few* heavy-duty crania.

There is a big difference between API Service Grade Certified and conforms to API Service Grade. API Service Grade Certifiied means that the American Petroleum Institute have certified that the oil in question does, in fact, meet the specifications for that grade of oil. Conforms to API Service Grade means that the oil in question meets the published specifications for that service grade.

Thus, when D-C say to use a "Grade Certified" oil, they mean that the oil container must bear the API Certified seal.

But, when D-C say to use an oil that "conforms" to a specification, they do not mean that the container must bear the "API Certified" seal. They would have so stated if that was what they meant. Instead, D-C said to use an oil that "conforms" to the service grade (at least in the case of my '98 12V).

And, to belabor the point a little, #ad
shows that the API certification mark is applied to gasoline engine oils only, whereas the API service symbol #ad
applies to both gasoline and diesel engine oils. There is no certification process in existence for diesel engine oils ("C" series classifications).

My apologies for the sheer size of the first image. I didn't expect it to be quite so *large*! But perhaps it's for the best, for it does help to make my point as graphically as possible.

If moderators know of a way to scale an image, please feel free to modify this post accordingly!

Fest3er

 

[GLASMITHS]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by Elite1
Fester, If what you say (or is it amsoils web page) is true. I would think that Mobil1 would be in for a false advertisement law suit, or truth in labeling suit. ...

You are likely quite correct. The FTC should be informed. And API. Mobil-1 is not rated for use in diesel engines.

Fest3er

 

[Elite1]

Originally posted by fest3er

You are likely quite correct. The FTC should be informed. And API. Mobil-1 is not rated for use in diesel engines.



Fest3er

Wow... Mobil1 is pretty slick, pulling one over on the public, mis-labeling their product... . pulling one over on the Mercedes diesel engineers... ... ... ... or maybe, just maybe... that multi level marketing pyramid company, who pedals oil, has their facts wrong!:--)

 

[andrewkoperdak]

Fester relax before you blow a gasket. Mights as well be discussing politics. Never a winner.



Nice large graphics though.



From the liberal state of CA

Andy

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by AKoperdak
Fester relax before you blow a gasket. Mights as well be discussing politics. Never a winner.

Nice large graphics though.

From the liberal state of CA
Andy

Who's bursting? I'm quite relaxed. As Andrew implied, I'm merely lecturing. You'll note that I didn't mention Amsoil or any other brand in my 'lecture'. Since these thread shave been about API, etc. of late, I'm merely pointing out that DC do *not* require the use of API licensed oil in diesel engines. I'm also pointing out that "C" classification oils are *not* certified by API.

I will not argue that one oil is better than any other. *That* is a waste of breath. I *will* continue to clarify that DC do not require API licensed oil, and that API do not certify diesel engine lubes.

I am quite relaxed. After all, I am merely quoting printed material. . It's not like I am proffering these facts as theough they are my *opinions*.

Fest3er

 

[TDRadmin]

Keep It Clean

Yesterday, I received a complaint that this thread had gotten out of hand, so last night I read it beginning to end. And I didn't think it had gotten out of hand. In fact, I thought it had been an excellent discussion overall and saw no reason to lock it.



Now, I come in this morning, and just thought it would be a good idea to see if the discussion was still productive. Well, it is going south quickly.



Please get it back on target and avoid unnecessarily rude/cynical comments on others' opinions or others' product choices (no matter how "fun" they may be intended), or I will be forced to lock this thread. Then you'll all be mad at me. Not a good way for me to start the weekend (chuckle).



Robin

TDR Admin