AMSOIL Trashes Royal Purple, What about Chevron Delo 400?

[john3976]

Now I am confused, Someone posted that the new blend of Chevron Delo 400 has Molly in it, according to this Amsoil blurb below Royal Purple also has Molly in it and they state in the start of the piece that Cummins says no way to using molly in their engines.



I checked on one of my gallon jugs of Chevron Delo 400 rated "CI-4 Plus" and it says it is certified for use in Cummins engines.



This is one reason I refuse to buy and use Amsoil products, they don't make it for sale on retail shelfs and they seem to go after their rivals with reports like the one below, I wonder who this lab was and if Amsoil would reveal their name?



Or is Amsoil like the Slick 50 people who make all those claims but refuse to reveal who and how they tested.



At any rate, read what Amsoil has to say about Royal Purple and the use of Molly.



Read the Amsoil piece below:









Derek Kolb Kirkland, WA



Purchase your AMSOIL products here in the ONLINE STORE.



Find out how to get all your AMSOIL products at DEALER COST!







Royal Purple Info







As you may know, RP is big in racing circles. The chemistry they use is something we choose not to use. One of our big selling points is extended drain intervals. Some additive chemicals can cause adverse conditions when used for long periods.



Royal Purple uses a different chemistry than most. They are one of only a handful of marketers using Moly in their oil. Moly is a solid, specifically banned by Cummins, due to excessive valve train wear.

Moly (Molybdenum Disulfide) is a processed mineral that is similar in appearance to graphite. Moly has good lubricating properties when used either by itself (in dry power form or as an additive to oil or other lubricants). Particles of the Moly can come out of suspension and agglomerate. This can actually clog oil filters or oil lines and the rest normally settles in the bottom of the oil pan. This seems to be more likely when using extended drain intervals. The only test we ran on RP involved their 20W50 Racing oil versus our AMSOIL Series 2000 Synthetic 20W50 Racing Oil (TRO). We ran two 4 ball wear tests with different parameters, a spectrographic baseline, FTIR scan and volatility tests. The Royal Purple showed a significantly high volatility rate with a 12. 51% boil off rate. This compares to TRO with a 4. 47% volatility rating. Wear scars were also smaller with the TRO. For example the TRO left a . 41mm scar and the RP oil left a . 66mm scar. There was also a surprising difference in the viscosity index. The RP has a VI of 129 versus 155 for the TRO. The higher the VI, the better the viscosity stays in place at high temperatures.



This infomation was profided by AMSOIL Tech Department. They had an independent lab test Royal Purple against AMSOIL. The results are posted above. They have found Moly in Royal Purple. As stated above, this can have negitive effects on your engine.

 

[john3976]

The question is, will having an engine oil with molly in it void the Cummins 100,000 mile warranty?



Does Cummins in fact state as Amsoil is claiming that molly is not to be used in a Cummins engine or valve failure will result?



I am a little concerned as I have Chevron Delo 400 CI-4 Plus in my 05 Cummins engine.



Or is Amsoil blowing smoke up everyones rear end on this matter?



With all the people running Chevron Delo and Royal Purple, I think these are valid questions.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

AS to the use of Moly and Boron in the newest Delo 400 formulation, check THIS out:



http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000240



... AND, as to the fabled "Moly dropout" and claimed fouling of filters, check THIS out:



http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000271





If you carefully read the back label on a bottle of Delo 400, you will see it IS a recommended lube for use by Cat, John Deere, CUMMINS, and many others - and as much as I respect synthtics like Amsoil, does IT provide a similar specific Cummins endorsement in IT'S label?



Fact is, it is PRECISELY the addition of both Molybdenum and Boron that provides new levels of wear protection - and Moly has LONG been acknowledged by lubrication experts and devotees as a VERY desireable ingredient in lubricants - INCLUDING engine oils.



Apparently, Chevron agrees - and I do as well, and will quite gladly continue to use the new Delo 400 in my truck.



4-ball tests and similar "proof" of excellence are great - as long as YOUR truck is powered by a "4-ball" engine - MINE isn't!



But I *do* have a long string of Delo 400 oil analysis I'll gladly put up against ANY competing dino OR synthetic oil under similar use and mileage!



(EDIT)



In the second of the above pointers, I wanted to show the particle count of Delo 400 WITH it's Moly content - look closely at the "filter clogging" particles down at the 5 and 10 micron range - as well as the larger ones - THEN, compare THOSE particle numbers with this Amsoil sample WITHOUT that nasty Molybdenum:



http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000270



See any significant difference?



*I* don't either!

 

[john3976]

Thanks, I feel much better, I trust Chevron products and have used them for years, This is my first Diesel so I have not had to use the Chevron Delo before, I thank you for giving good information on this as I ran a search on Royal Purple oil and google brought up that Amsoil test.



Thanks again.

 

[SMorneau]

This is one reason I refuse to buy and use Amsoil products, they don't make it for sale on retail shelfs and they seem to go after their rivals with reports like the one below, I wonder who this lab was and if Amsoil would reveal their name?





Amsoil is available in a lot of retail auto stores in my area. They simply do not undercut the dealer network they have developed by selling it direct to large chains. What you see on store shelves is likely maintained there by a local dealer. Say what you wan't about the Amsoil products but you have to give the company credit for not selling out the people who comprise their distribution network.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Amsoil is available in a lot of retail auto stores in my area. They simply do not undercut the dealer network they have developed by selling it direct to large chains. What you see on store shelves is likely maintained there by a local dealer. Say what you wan't about the Amsoil products but you have to give the company credit for not selling out the people who comprise their distribution network.

Personally, *I* don't give diddly-squat as to how outfits like Amsoil choose to market or distribute their stuff - I vote with my wallet - and either the product delivers what *I* want, or I go elsewhere!



I have personally dumped about $80 worth of Amsoil lubes, and $40 of Redline's after VERY short-term use, because they FAILED to perform as I expected.



So far, Delo fully meets my quality, price, and performance expectations - and that's what I choose to use...

 

[john3976]

Amsoil is available in a lot of retail auto stores in my area. They simply do not undercut the dealer network they have developed by selling it direct to large chains. What you see on store shelves is likely maintained there by a local dealer. Say what you wan't about the Amsoil products but you have to give the company credit for not selling out the people who comprise their distribution network.

Why would Amsoil print such things as Cummins says not to use Molly in a Cummins engine or valve failure will occur, Does not say much for the integrity of Amsoil if they have posted lies about a competing brand of oil, in the case of their article Royal Purple and all other oils that use molly.



I would like Amsoil to print the proof of where they are getting this information that molly will cause valve damage in a Cummins engine.



There is a Amsoil salesman who posts in here I am sure he can get the document from Amsoil that will either prove their claim or more likely they will not respond.

 

[RT66DOC]

Holy Moly, I just switched from Delvac 1 to Delo 400 about 2500 miles ago. Today my start/run solenoid took a dump. Maybe time to rethink this. :-laf

 

[EMD-Run8]

Crying out loud--------it didn't sound like trashing to me. They simply pointed out that they don't like moly for reasons they pointed out and simply stated that Royal Purple does. They gather this info from indy labs precisely because they don't wan't the appearance of bias. I'm sure if you called them they would gladly provide the name of the lab. What do we want next---Al Amatuzio to take a lie detector test, sworn affadavits? Relax folks.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Crying out loud--------it didn't sound like trashing to me. They simply pointed out that they don't like moly for reasons they pointed out and simply stated that Royal Purple does.

UMMmmm - well, the primary REASON they gave for disliking Moly in the competition's oil. was because of predicted CLOGGING of oil filters with those nasty Moly particles, and settling out of solids to the bottom of engine galleries and the pan... BUT, as the pointers *I* supplied clearly show, the Amsoil ITSELF has the same percentages of random particles down at the same micron sizes as the Moly-containing oils they criticize...



Tempest in a teapot? Sure - but one of the beneficial functions of threads and boards like this, is to closely examine conflicting "facts" and claims in order to make reasonably informed decisions.



AND, *I* am constantly amused and amazed at the scattered whines, bleats and cries of anguish from various supporters and cheerleaders of various "sacred cow" products when someone starts asking questions and making personal opinion based comments. Hell, you'd think someone had insulted their mother! :-laf

 

[Hohn]

This kind of thing is irritating, and sad to me. Sad, because Amsoil only gives their critics more ammunition to use against them.



The Amsoil claims that "Cummins says not to use Moly" is completely taken out of context. Cummins' admonishment not to use moly is limited SPECIFICALLY to aftermarket oil additives, especially those that claim to "replate parts and *restore* engines".



Thus, the Cummins admonishment is not to use the RESTORE product (in the silver cans). This is a different TYPE and AMOUNT of moly.



But Amsoil is claiming that the miniscule amount of moly in additive-level concentrations (as used by oil makers) is harmful. NONSENSE. Many MANY oil makers have been using moly as an additive for year, and it is a PROVEN way to improve an oil.



Moreover, the Four Ball Wear test is not considered a relevant test at all by most tribologists. Amsoil is the only one that uses it because it tends to favor THEIR oils.



Finally, SOLIDS have been used in lubricant with great success. Redline makes gear lubes with sold particulate dispersants under their "Shockproof" line. Talk to a racer about how good these gear oils are.





Amsoil makes some good products, but the company seems content to run itself like a cult, and castigate those who don't "believe".



Justin

 

[DGFoster]

I dont know what AMSOIL said or didnt say,I use it and will continue to use it,some people are happy with what they use,and that is great,so far I have found nothing equal or better. In my opinion and I am no expert but I believe in Amsoil while others may have a different point of view. . and that is OK too

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I dont know what AMSOIL said or didnt say,I use it and will continue to use it,some people are happy with what they use,and that is great,so far I have found nothing equal or better. In my opinion and I am no expert but I believe in Amsoil while others may have a different point of view. . and that is OK too

Absolutely NOTHING wrong with Amsoil - I consider it to be an excellent lube product as offered in a wide array of formulations - just too pricey for my climate and typical truck operation.

 

[DGFoster]

It is pricey

 

[JPope]

Must be officially SPRING, the oil discussions are sprouting !!!



Seems like the Amsoil, Redline, Delo, Royal Purple bulbs survived winter and came back, wonder if the Rotella bulbs are coming in late this year? :-laf

 

[john3976]

Must be officially SPRING, the oil discussions are sprouting !!!



Seems like the Amsoil, Redline, Delo, Royal Purple bulbs survived winter and came back, wonder if the Rotella bulbs are coming in late this year? :-laf

Sorry if I started a war of oil words, but when I happened across the Amsoil piece it made me stop in my tracks as I just changed my oil for the first time in my Cummins and I put in the Delo 400 with the molly and while looking up Royal Purple on a google search up pops this Amsoil piece that makes it sound like molly is prohibited by Cummins and your valves are going to seize up if you use any motor oil that includes molly.



Read what I cut and pasted from the net, that is from Amsoil and it is very misleading.



I am glad I asked because at least now I am sure my Delo is good oil and will not harm my Cummins diesel engine.



But read the Amsoil report in my first post and if you take it at face value it will cause you to worry. Amsoil should be ashamed to print such a misleading piece about oils, I am considering going to the Royal Purple at the 15,000 mile mark.

 

[amsoilman]

BUT, as the pointers *I* supplied clearly show, the Amsoil ITSELF has the same percentages of random particles down at the same micron sizes as the Moly-containing oils they criticize...

Gary,

I don't understand where you are seeing any particles, since there are NO wear metals present in the the oil analysis. They were ALL reporting NEW oil, so how could there be any "wear Metals" in the oil to report?



Wayne

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Wayne, *I* made NO statement or claim about "wear metals" - re-read the quote you supplied, and my own comments - the references and particle counts I was pointing to were non-specified particles in various sizes from 5 microns on up - WITHOUT any claims as to what they consisted of...

 

[bchesley]

I emailed royal purple about this report and statement because I am running their oil. Here is their response!!



Brad



**********************************************************

Brad,



This is an old false thread from 4-5 years ago. It is NOT authorized by Amsoil Corporate but is still distributed by the so called 'lubrication experts' that they call 'dealers for Amsoil.



Do me a favor, contact Amsoil Corporate and I would be interested if they support this as it is totally false.



RP 15W40 is an API Licensed oil and is great in your Dodge Cummins. I should know as I have been using it in my two Cummins powered Dodges since 1992 with over 300,000 personal miles of experience. Attached is a picture of my 96 Dodge 3500 XLT at 115,000 having run 12,000 mile oil change intervals. I was installing a bypass oil filter (OilGuard) and had removed the No#1 valve cover to install the return.



Attached is the photo of my truck (which now has 174K and is 9 1/2 years old running strong on RP 15W40 getting right at 20 mpg average) and a link to our API License.

http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseInfo.asp?LicenseNo=0777

Cheers,



David



David Canitz

Tech Services Manager

Royal Purple Ltd

1 Royal Purple Lane

Porter, TX 77365

281-354-8600 x202

281-354-7335 fax

713-725-7207 cell

-- email address removed --

 

[amsoilman]

Wayne, *I* made NO statement or claim about "wear metals" - re-read the quote you supplied, and my own comments - the references and particle counts I was pointing to were non-specified particles in various sizes from 5 microns on up - WITHOUT any claims as to what they consisted of...

Gary,

That's the point. The non-specified particles in various sizes. What are they? If the oil is *NEW*, how can there be particles of ANYTHING?



Wayne

amsoilman