Amsoil vs. Delo 400

[RDietze]

If you seriously wanted the Amsoil Dual by-pass system... . ... ... ... Joe F. (Buffalo)

thanks joe! i think the single filter is the way to go w/me. $441 would be too expensive. plus, i don't want to have to buy 2 filters from amsoil .

i didn't think the oilguard filtered as well as you posted..... plus the price of the filters is quite cha-ching! ($)

thanks for the info on the bypass forum... . i'm going there now.



ron

 

[BillGotthelf]

RDietz check out www.puradyn.com I have used their bypass filters for the past 10 years in al my heavy equipment with great success. As for the oil I use Delo400 for the first 15,000 miles then change out to Amsoil Series 3000 put on the bypass system and never change the oil again. Oil is added as needed when the factory filter is changed, bypass filter element is changed or as needed. Oil is tested every 15,000 miles.

 

[Iguide]

I for one have a hard time believing your claim of 22. 5 to 23. 1 mpg average combined driving. I also have a hard time believing that your fluid change is responsible for a 10% mpg increase. I don't necessarily expect you to "prove" your claims, but your "bluntless" comes across as a little bit shallow because you don't provide any details about your truck. If you would really like us to get your perspective in context then it would help if you provide a few details about your truck such as year, trany type, body style, 2wd vs 4wd, SRW vs. DRW, miles on truck, etc.

First these are listed on my members page.



2003 4x4

NV5600

3. 74 rear diff.

no engine or trany mods

Drive easy & coservative

I changed evrything over @ 3000 miles and now have 37,856. When I posted I had just over 36,000

Amsoil BMK 15 Bypass system



Yea I know I'm blunt, but when I posted in the past I basically got called a liar, and that really ****** me off. The fact is if you believe it or not this is what is going on. Why my truck & not every one elses. I do not know. I think it is the Amsoil & the early change over. Keeping my Amsoinl airfilter clean, draining my fuel filter after evry fill up & I use Amsoil fuel additives. Keeping a watch on my tire pressure. Changing my fuel filter every 7500mi. Those are the things that I try to do. Personaly i think the biggest reason now is the way that I drive. I usually do not have a lead foot. What other information would you like? In any event enjoy life and have a great day.

Wayne

 

[mberry]

I believe you Derby. If I could stand to go 50-55mph I would get close to what you get mileage wise. I just can't go that slow. Biggest thing I noticed was that after I changed my nasty filthy stock air filter, my mileage went up significantly.

 

[Iguide]

mberry:





Thank you!



At this time in my life, I just do not need to rush. I tend to take things slower. That way I get a more harmonious outcome. When I'm on the rd it drives my wife a little crazy, & since I don't do "jack rabbit starts off the line from a stop I get a lot of horns & Hawaiian good luck wave's. That is ok though. They will just live a more rushed and much less harmonious life. A lot of people drive like there is no tomorrow and if they can't get there as fast as possible their life will end. Not only does that cause stress but really cuts down on the MPG. As I noted originally when I changed over to Amsoil I immediately noticed a 10% increase in mileage at 3000 miles. It went from 19. 5 to 21. 6. I also noticed that with winter blend that I do not have as much decrease in mileage as guy's I know that are running dino. All the synthetics in the truck do not thicken up as dino does in the cold. Therefore, that is another reason for Amsoil for me. Never mind the extend drain and low wear characteristics of Amsoil. Therefore, for me it is a no brainer, Amsoil over Dino. That is for me, I am not saying that every one should go that route. You have to do what make you comfortable. That way you live a more harmonious life.

 

[draymorris]

Run Delo - to prove it, do oil analysis at every change. I also did the total change to Amsoil and saw about 3mpg increase. I began at doing oil samples regularly at the same time. Over time, the oil analysis showed that Amsoil was wearing my engine faster than Delo ever did. I really don't want to post all the details again, but I saw with my own eyes - and each sample since I have changed back to delo still proves my theory. I now actually run to 10k between oil changes- the oil analysis does not change much between 5k and 10K on the delo. Also - never run a Amsoil air filter - the oil samplings will tell on it if you compare it to a paper filter! I now use products made by Lubrication Engineers Inc. in my drivetrain components - I had Amsoil in, but the rear end started grinding on corners when loaded - changed to LE product and it imediately stopped grinding. Remember, synthetic is not always better. Good luck and sample your oil if you want the truth.

 

[Iguide]

draymorris:

I find your obsevations & comments very interesting. I am courious what Amsoil products were you using, in what applications?

Thanks & make it a great day.

 

[Forrest]

Run Delo - I also did the total change to Amsoil and saw about 3mpg increase.

Is that all? ... Change not only the engine oil, but diffs, transmission & xfer case ... then see the difference.

 

[RDietze]

Over time, the oil analysis showed that Amsoil was wearing my engine faster than Delo ever did.

never heard of such a thing?!

Also - never run a Amsoil air filter - the oil samplings will tell on it if you compare it to a paper filter!

this statement has some believability.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

never heard of such a thing?!

OK, might as well bring this discussion to a FULL boil... :-laf



Over the last 10 years or so on this and similar boards, I have carefully inspected MANY Amsoil, and competing popular dino brands like Delo and Rotella in regards to analysis - and MY conclusion has been that consistently, wear metals in analysis show Amsoil to be somewhat higher in those metals than the top dino oils. Not by amounts the Amsoil faithful would consider (or accept!) as substantial, but HIGHER just the same!



That is one reason I personally pretty much disregard that notorious "4-ball test" Amsoil steadfastly employs in their advertising - that test and it's results has NOT been supported in the majority of "real world" use and analysis *I* have consistently seen from a broad range of engines and users over the years.



But since that wear increase is relatively small, the other substantial benefits provided by Amsoil and similar synthetics make that slight "cost" worth the price of admission for those needing those added benefits due to their locations and climates.



NOW, I suppose and expect there will be a few Amsoil faithful jump in here asking for "proof" and "documentation" - and no, I haven't saved all the past analysis #'s I refer to - and can only suggest interested readers to keep an open mind and watch the occasional analysis reports as they surface here and on other boards from time to time...



Now, back to the current war in progress... :-laf :-laf

 

[dhill]

OK, might as well bring this discussion to a FULL boil... :-laf



- and can only suggest interested readers to keep an open mind and watch the occasional analysis reports as they surface here and on other boards from time to time...



Now, back to the current war in progress... :-laf :-laf

Wow!!!!! That in it self should put Gary in a flame suit. :-laf



Dave

 

[Iguide]

Is that all? ... Change not only the engine oil, but diffs, transmission & xfer case ... then see the difference.

That is what I did @ 3,000 miles. I also did change my air filter to the Amsoil one and added a BMK-15 filter & bypass kit. I immediately saw a 10% increase from 19. 5mpg to 21. 6mpg. I do regular oil analysis approximately every 12,500. So far I have not had the problems that Mr. draymorris had. But that does not mean that he did not have those problems. Just because I did not experience something is no reason to doubt that someone else is not being truthful about the same thing.



One of the things that will also make a DIFFERENCE in mileage is the way people drive. When I have driven aggressively my mileage is 15 to 20% less than when I take it easy & relax. It just takes planning ahead a bit more. You can put the slipperiest stuff on the market in your truck, but if you have a lead foot you will not see the results that you will if you drive as if you have an egg under your foot. That my friends is the real X factor in all of this.



Take Care & enjoy your life as you should.

Wayne

 

[amsoilman]

OK, might as well bring this discussion to a FULL boil... :-laf



That is one reason I personally pretty much disregard that notorious "4-ball test" Amsoil steadfastly employs in their advertising - that test and it's results has NOT been supported in the majority of "real world" use and analysis *I* have consistently seen from a broad range of engines and users over the years.

Now, back to the current war in progress... :-laf :-laf

Here is a picture of a bearing from an engine, (won't say what kind) after 226,000 miles and 15,000 mile drain intervals, NO BY-PASS, just regular "off the shelf filters". This is real world!

#ad




Wayne

amsoilman

 

[amsoilman]

And here is another real world shot. This is the Valve cover of that same engine after 226,000 miles, changing the oil at 15,000 mile intervals, with regular "off the shelf filters". NO BY-PASS.



#ad




Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Here is a picture of a bearing from an engine, (won't say what kind) after 226,000 miles and 15,000 mile drain intervals, NO BY-PASS, just regular "off the shelf filters". This is real world"



WAYNE, you're a great guy, and I love and respect you and your integrity - but as we BOTH know, one tree doesn't make a forest - and just because your neighbors Ford blows up at only 100 miles doesn't mean ALL Fords are junk and destined for an early grave. Just because MY Dodge gets 23 MPG doesn't mean ALL Dodges everywhere will do the same, etc. , etc.



Your examples are fine - but as I tried to make clear, my claim was based NOT upon a single - or a selected FEW - examples, but rather on 10+ years of interested observation of posted oil analysis samples provided by various brand oil users across several major diesel boards, SOME with bypass filtration, but MOST without.



All characteristics considered, synthetics are UNDOUBTEDLY the best and greatest for our engines and drivetrains, especially in extreme service and climates - but I stand by my own posted comments and observations...



Peace...

 

[Buffalo]

Oilguard Bypass info.

Hi RDietze.



Sorry it took so long to answer your reply. I've been working quite a bit, lately.



Regarding your suggestion that the Oilguard filters are too expensive, they are $13. 00 ea. If you do not use oil sampling tests, the recommended change is twice the recommended oil change interval.



If you chose the Amsoil product, the retail price on the full-flow filter is $20. 35 and the dealer price is $15. 35. On the Amsoil Bypass Filter, the retail price is $29. 40, and the dealer price is $22. 85.



With these price comparisons, the Oilguard looks like it may be a bargain.



You, also, mentioned that my suggestion that the oilguard system filtered down to the 1-2 micron level, was possibly inaccurate. This system is advertised to filter down to the 1 micron level. Testing has been done, by an independent lab that shows the filtering capabilities of this system. Unfortunately, their testing only shows levels of 2 microns, or more.



If you, or anyone else, would care to read more on this system, you can find them on Oilguard.com.



I am not affiliated with Oilguard, nor do I own one of their systems. However, if I was in the market, they would be a top contender.



Rumor has it that Dodge "fails to see the humor" in aftermarket oil filteration systems. For that reason, I am shying away from these products, at this time. As I get closer to the end of my warranty, I will probably consider one of these products.



Hope this helps.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[RDietze]

buffalo,



this is what an amsoil rep sent me on the filtering aspects of their bypass filters (i believe this is a single pass?):

1 micron it is 71. 2 percent efficient, at 3 micron it is 98. 6 efficient, at 5 micron it is 99. 5 percent efficient, and at 10 micron, it is 99. 9 percent efficient.



compared to oilguard: see graph http://oilguard.com/side_menu/bypass_filtration/independent_laboratory_test_page.htm

OilGuard Bypass Filter removes 92% of all particles 2 micron and larger within a single pass.

The OilGuard Bypass Filter removes 99% of all particles 2 micron and larger within two passes.



if the info is accurate, it would appear that that the amsoil filters better - single pass?

as far as cost, the filters i would get, there is a $9 difference in the advantage of the oilgard ( amsoil be110 v. oilguard 60) -- then there is the "kit" price of each unit, the oilguard is nearly twice as expensive.



thanks for your output joe, it made me think (and take a few more hits on the oilguard website). i haven't bought anything yet - still sitting on me hands.



thanks! ron

 

[amsoilman]

Hi RDietze.



Rumor has it that Dodge "fails to see the humor" in aftermarket oil filteration systems. For that reason, I am shying away from these products, at this time. As I get closer to the end of my warranty, I will probably consider one of these products.



Hope this helps.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

I don't know about others on this board, but I have had 3 Dodge Trucks with the Cummins engines over the past 14 Years. Each of these 3 trucks had a by-pass oil filtration system installed, and each had been in the Dodge dealerships with NO NEGATIVE remarks at all. Infact, the first CTD (1991) I had in the dealership with a fueling problem in which the regional Dodge rep was involved in, and he admired the system I had installed, and even made positive remarks regarding my oil analysis program. It's pretty hard to dispute an oil analysis.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

and MY conclusion has been that consistently, wear metals in analysis show Amsoil to be somewhat higher in those metals than the top dino oils. Not by amounts the Amsoil faithful would consider (or accept!) as substantial, but HIGHER just the same!

And with the sampling I did in two trucks I found the opposite to be true, wear metals dropped noticeably going to Amsoil 15w40 HDD/Marine oil.



With that said this '96 I have which has been run on Delo 400 all its life looked pretty good inside at 352,000 when I pulled the head, very little cylinder wear. It did however have some soot/deposits buildup and wasn't as clean internally as an engine run on Amsoil.



Currently I'm running Rotella T Synthetic and that helped clean it up inside, looks purdy now when I lift the valve covers.



Vaughn

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"With that said this '96 I have which has been run on Delo 400 all its life looked pretty good inside at 352,000 when I pulled the head, very little cylinder wear. It did however have some soot/deposits buildup and wasn't as clean internally as an engine run on Amsoil. "



NOT to be a wiseguy, Vaughn- but how many decently serviced 325,000 mile engines using Amsoil have you seen to base such a comparison on?



Also, On my '91 truck, my oil analysis wear metals continued to drop clear out to 100,000 miles, and IF I had switched brands or types of lubes in that period, it would have been pretty tempting to credit the new lube, instead of the natural long term seating in of the Cummins.



My new truck wear metals (Iron) dropped from about 19 ppm in the first 5000 miles to the current 3 ppm or so at 40,000 miles, and I expect it to probably drop slightly lower still up to 100,000 miles as the older '91 did. Only difference is, I've only used Delo after the first oil change at 500 miles on the latest '02...



NOW, *if* I had switched from the Delo over to a synthetic in those earlier miles, my wear metals would undoubtedly have also dropped dramatically - but could I *really* credit the synthetic for that drop, or naturally occuring breaking in and seating of engine components - which would have occured REGARDLESS of WHAT decent brand oil I used?



Guys do the dyno bit, and then post only the BEST HP numbers - drag racers do the same with their times - I fully suspect that all oil companies use various tests, and also send out MANY oil samples for analysis - which ones do ya suppose THEY select to use in their advertising?



On the other hand, oil formulations are constantly changing - today's Delo isn't the same as it was a year or so ago - the same is undoubtedly true of Amsoil and other synthetics - so analysis results could very well change too...