Anatomy of a Frantz toilet paper bypass oil filter

[Midnite]

I was talking to a friend of mine who's the shop manager at a hydraulic shop about making me up some hoses for my new GCF O-1 (thanks steved!) and he told me something interesting. He said that while hydraulic hose would give me great abrasion resistance, it would fail prematurely from the heat of my engine oil. Hydraulic hose is apparently only made to handle 170 - 180 degrees F. fluid temps. In my friend's estimation, hydraulic hose would only last me about a year or so before it would start cracking and then fail soon after.

He steered me to a local Parker Fittings store where they recommended some braided stainless line that can handle up to 400 degrees F.

Just an FYI for those of you who may be using hydraulic hose--you may want to check it frequently if nothing else.

Mike

 

[steved]

He said that while hydraulic hose would give me great abrasion resistance, it would fail prematurely from the heat of my engine oil.

I think it depends on the hydraulic hose.



I ran hydraulic hose for over 120k on that particular GCF 0-1... they were in as good of shape when removed (short being dirty) as when I installed.



Hydraulic systems can run every bit as hot as our engine oils.

 

[Midnite]

That's what I would've thought, and I remember you saying you'd run hydraulic hose for a while with no problems. I'd bet you're right about it depending on the specific type of hose.

The braided stainless line turned out to be much cheaper than I thought, so I went with that. Just like hydraulic hose, with this stuff I won't have to worry about anything wearing through it, but I think I'll have to be careful about it wearing through other stuff, so I'm going to cover it in places with some split loom.

Mike

 

[steved]

#ad




This is my replacement setup... couple things; I was able to reuse my aluminum cooler and it flows a lot more than the GCF did.



I checked the in/out temps today... it was 198*F coming out of the filter head and returning at the valve cover at 147*F. So my cooler is working quite well. Not sure it makes any difference as it really isn't that much flow... but it was bought and paid for.



I'm going to pull a UOA later this week (when I get home from Texas).

 

[Coalsmoke]

Nice cooler!

 

[Midnite]

Steve, I thought about doing something very similar, but I was thinking about plumbing it into the normal turbo oil circuit so that the oil would hit the cooler before going to the turbo.



Where did you pick up that cooler?



Mike

 

[steved]

EBay several years ago.

 

[C2]

I've read all the posts for the Frantz filter and have picked up a lot of good information. I have a few comments and questions about the Frantz and other filters that I would like to post.

I have a physical handicap and a longer time interval between filter changes would be better for me so I think toilet paper filters are out for me. Would channelling be a problem with longer intervals using toilet paper rolls? If water is collected in the roll would longer intervals degrade the oil in the filter or is the water somehow isolated from the oil (I would have the same concern with any long interval filter). There is an explanation at YouTube - How Water Is Removed During Bypass Filtration from kleenoil. ca - Kleenoil Filtration System which indicates that the water is encapsulated inside the long fibres but I wonder if anyone has heard anything different.

A very similar design to the Frantz is the Jackmaster at Oil Filters,Bypass Oil Filters,Bypass Oil Filter . It has a 15,000 km / 9300 mile filter for $10 or less and also allows the use of TP with a special fitting. The filter feeds and drains through the bottom of the housing and I was wondering if any of the captured water would drain out when the engine shuts down (if the drain is below the filter of course). There is a bolt that runs through the center of the filter but it is a smaller diameter than a TP center and there doesn't seem to a central tube for direct support of a TP core. They do have a lot of fittings and suggestions for feeding and draining the oil. One method is supplying the oil through the end of the full flow spin on filter. They also have a sandwich adapter ( also at Oil Filter Sandwich Adapters ) that feeds oil from under the spin on filter. Has anyone had any experience with these?

Most bypass filter systems claim an increased interval for changing the full flow filter. The full flow filter is still filtering most of the oil (+95%?) and wouldn't it still get clogged up with the larger particles fairly fast - unless most large particles are formed from clumped small particles. Does anybody know what percentage of the large particles in motor oil are formed by clumping of the smaller particles?

I do a lot of small trips and have been considering the bypass filters from www(dot)Puradyn.com ( <Puradyn Oil Filtration 2010 Keep It Clean!> ) that uses a heater to evaporate water, fuel and other liquids from the oil ( also see Hydraulic Electric Oil By-Pass Filtration System | Premo Lubrication Technologies | Tampa, FL ). These systems indicate that the water is removed by the heater (heats to about 195°F). The Puradyn uses a cotton filter and I wonder if anybody knows if any of the water would be removed by the cotton fibres. Cotton is cellulose (very long fibre?) and the wood cellulose TP removes water so why not cotton cellulose. I understand heaters are necessary to remove fuel but are they giving us a line about evaporating water? I was concerned about over heating the oil but Puradyn claims that it doesn't, it will only heat up to 195°F even with hot oil.

Purafiner (now Puradyn) has a lot of info at Index of /files/Puradyn . There is an old file on how to calculate the filter change interval at http://files.mainlube.com/files/Puradyn/Formula to calculate Purifiner filter change interval.pdf . Briefly it is:
960 multiplied by the filter volume (filter volume, not sump volume) divided by (engine HP divided by 100) multiplied by a safety factor (0. 5 to 0. 8 for diesel engines - gasoline engines should give more hours). The current info from Puradyn recommends changing the Puradyn filter at the car manufacturers oil change interval and changing the full flow filter every two changes. They recommend doing an oil analysis at every filter change and replace the oil when needed.

From what I've read engine hours are a more accurate method of determining oil change intervals than miles driven. I'm thinking of purchasing a meter similar to the ones at LCD Hour Meters on ENM Company . The T54 is activated by engine vibration and doesn't need to be wired in but they have lots of other models. Anyone have experience with engine hour oil changes?

Due to the thin film evaporation chamber the Puradyn return line has to be gravity feed (1 foot drop recommended) and therefore cannot be returned to the rocker cover. The simplest return is using their fitting and punching a hole into the oil pan. They also have some banjo fittings at http://www.puradyn.com/pdf/012808_BanjoFittingKits.pdf that replace the oil drain plug but I'm a little leary of oil change mechanics damaging the fitting or hose. Any other suggestions for a return line?

There are a couple of spin on style TP filters shown at TRASKO-USA and Stilko Lifetime Oil Filters - oil filter,filtration system,clean oil,oil filtering,car oil . The Trasko uses a partial roll of TP? for the bypass filter and an 8-10 micron reusable mesh filter for the overfow. The Stilko uses TP as the only filter with an overfow bypass valve without filter? for the remainder. I wonder what percentage of the oil passes through the TP and what percentage flows through the bypass valve unfiltered?

Quite a bit of this thread is really about oil quality and there are a couple of good of articles at Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible and Lincolns OnLine | Tech Tips and Articles . I've collected a lot of links pertaining to bypass filters and I'll list them at http://eco6.com/bypass.html .

 

[amsoilman]

I've read all the posts for the Frantz filter and have picked up a lot of good information. I have a few comments and questions about the Frantz and other filters that I would like to post.



I have a physical handicap and a longer time interval between filter changes would be better for me so I think toilet paper filters are out for me. Would channelling be a problem with longer intervals using toilet paper rolls? If water is collected in the roll would longer intervals degrade the oil in the filter or is the water somehow isolated from the oil (I would have the same concern with any long interval filter). There is an explanation at YouTube - How Water Is Removed During Bypass Filtration from kleenoil. ca - Kleenoil Filtration System which indicates that the water is encapsulated inside the long fibres but I wonder if anyone has heard anything different.



A very similar design to the Frantz is the Jackmaster at Oil Filters,Bypass Oil Filters,Bypass Oil Filter . It has a 15,000 km / 9300 mile filter for $10 or less and also allows the use of TP with a special fitting. The filter feeds and drains through the bottom of the housing and I was wondering if any of the captured water would drain out when the engine shuts down (if the drain is below the filter of course). There is a bolt that runs through the center of the filter but it is a smaller diameter than a TP center and there doesn't seem to a central tube for direct support of a TP core. They do have a lot of fittings and suggestions for feeding and draining the oil. One method is supplying the oil through the end of the full flow spin on filter. They also have a sandwich adapter ( also at Oil Filter Sandwich Adapters ) that feeds oil from under the spin on filter. Has anyone had any experience with these?



Most bypass filter systems claim an increased interval for changing the full flow filter. The full flow filter is still filtering most of the oil (+95%?) and wouldn't it still get clogged up with the larger particles fairly fast - unless most large particles are formed from clumped small particles. Does anybody know what percentage of the large particles in motor oil are formed by clumping of the smaller particles?



I do a lot of small trips and have been considering the bypass filters from www(dot)Puradyn.com ( <Puradyn Oil Filtration 2010 Keep It Clean!> ) that uses a heater to evaporate water, fuel and other liquids from the oil ( also see Hydraulic Electric Oil By-Pass Filtration System | Premo Lubrication Technologies | Tampa, FL ). These systems indicate that the water is removed by the heater (heats to about 195°F). The Puradyn uses a cotton filter and I wonder if anybody knows if any of the water would be removed by the cotton fibres. Cotton is cellulose (very long fibre?) and the wood cellulose TP removes water so why not cotton cellulose. I understand heaters are necessary to remove fuel but are they giving us a line about evaporating water? I was concerned about over heating the oil but Puradyn claims that it doesn't, it will only heat up to 195°F even with hot oil.



Purafiner (now Puradyn) has a lot of info at Index of /files/Puradyn . There is an old file on how to calculate the filter change interval at http://files.mainlube.com/files/Puradyn/Formula to calculate Purifiner filter change interval.pdf . Briefly it is:

960 multiplied by the filter volume (filter volume, not sump volume) divided by (engine HP divided by 100) multiplied by a safety factor (0. 5 to 0. 8 for diesel engines - gasoline engines should give more hours). The current info from Puradyn recommends changing the Puradyn filter at the car manufacturers oil change interval and changing the full flow filter every two changes. They recommend doing an oil analysis at every filter change and replace the oil when needed.



From what I've read engine hours are a more accurate method of determining oil change intervals than miles driven. I'm thinking of purchasing a meter similar to the ones at LCD Hour Meters on ENM Company . The T54 is activated by engine vibration and doesn't need to be wired in but they have lots of other models. Anyone have experience with engine hour oil changes?



Due to the thin film evaporation chamber the Puradyn return line has to be gravity feed (1 foot drop recommended) and therefore cannot be returned to the rocker cover. The simplest return is using their fitting and punching a hole into the oil pan. They also have some banjo fittings at http://www.puradyn.com/pdf/012808_BanjoFittingKits.pdf that replace the oil drain plug but I'm a little leary of oil change mechanics damaging the fitting or hose. Any other suggestions for a return line?



There are a couple of spin on style TP filters shown at TRASKO-USA and Stilko Lifetime Oil Filters - oil filter,filtration system,clean oil,oil filtering,car oil . The Trasko uses a partial roll of TP? for the bypass filter and an 8-10 micron reusable mesh filter for the overfow. The Stilko uses TP as the only filter with an overfow bypass valve without filter? for the remainder. I wonder what percentage of the oil passes through the TP and what percentage flows through the bypass valve unfiltered?



Quite a bit of this thread is really about oil quality and there are a couple of good of articles at Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible and Lincolns OnLine | Tech Tips and Articles . I've collected a lot of links pertaining to bypass filters and I'll list them at http://eco6.com/bypass.html .

I use the Amsoil by-bass system on my current truck, and have also used the same system on two other Dodge/Cummins I've owned. My current truck has over 80,000 on the oil without draining, and I do oil analysis every 10,000 miles. My previous Dodge/Cummins had some 155,000/ten years with only one oil drain in that time frame. All of my reports have shown < 0. 1 % water. Both by-pass element and full-flow element are changed at 15,000 mile intervals. My point here is this. Water in the oil is pretty much a non-issue when a good oil filtration system is used.

 

[Midnite]

I got the GCF O-1 hooked up last night and working! Wohoo! I'm amazed that I didn't have a single leak anywhere--nothing ever works perfectly for me on the first attempt. I was surprised how long it took for the oil to start flowing back through the return line, even recognizing how huge that filter housing is.

I'm going to take a sample now, and then another after 3 or 4 thousand miles for comparison's sake. I'll be very curious to see the difference.

Mike

 

[steved]

Water in oil has nothing to do with filtration.



Oil runs at well over 200 degrees, and any water in the system is simply boiled off. Water detected in oil at any concentration is a sign of worse things to come.

 

[Balzac]

Tight install

When preparing new roll of TP, 'Cone' the roll by holding with two hands and bang on knee till the roll is somewhat cone shaped, push into canister then push in the extending center till flat, this tightens the roll into the canister for better filtering, also I have been using for over 40 years.

 

[DMillard]

Thanks to Gary-K7GLD and amsoilman for all the helpfull information. I ended up with a NOS Frantz for now but I've got more plans for other vehicles. My race car runs on methanol and it messes up the oil in a big hurry. The system would have to be off the car, so maybe a gravity feed might work after draining from car.

I saw the Amsoil set up on a Harley on the Amsoil web and that may just be my next purchase. That with an air cooler will add capacity, cooling, and cleaner oil.

Next thing to do is find a place to get my oil analyzed. Ain't never done that before. "either"