Another Oil War....Hope Not !!!!!

[CumminsPuller]

If two different oils from two seperate manufacturers, both meet the same spec or requirements for a particular application, what makes one better than the other? If the two oils have identical specs. which one is better?



Is it just the additive packages? Or is it the different routes each manufacturer takes to arrive at their particular specs. ?



Jason

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Truth is, your Cummins - mine for sure - will outlive us, or outlast the truck body and our desire to keep driving it...



Arguments and debates as to "superiority" of one oil vs another is a futile waste of time in my opinion...



Use a good, name brand oil - and all the above applies to the synthetics AND conventional oils - and make sure to change it regularly - and use good filters - Fleetguard 3894 is VERY hard to beat - and a little extra investment in a good bypass oil filter for added protection in cleaner oil (it's transferrable from one vehicle to another) - and you're doing about all that's needed for longer engine life than you are likely to ever use...



And THAT's the truth!

 

[CumminsPuller]

I agree with your statements Gary. I was looking at the technical side of it. And not just our cummins, but all motor oils and lubes. If all requirements are met and two oils specs are identical, is one better than the other?



I just spent $65. 00 on Fleetgaurd filters for my 8. 3C Cummins today, and still didn't get one of the fuel filters and forgot to buy an airfilter. A bit more expensive preventative maintainence on this engine compared to the ol' 5. 9.



Jason

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

At BEST, you MIGHT find one oil to be slightly better in cold climates - another in hot - not really even sure that is likely...

 

[Cummins Pilot]

I doubt my Cummins will out live me. (I'm 23) But I get what I feel is the best oil I can get. (Mobil full syn). I run syn or syn/castor oil in everything I own.



Plus I live in a climate that gets very cold and can get pretty warm/hot. So I look for an oil that can stand up to those requirements.



Its very difficult to figure out which oil is better than the next brand. But I think the best oil is the one that lets you rest easy at night.



This truck will be around until it dies. And if the engine is still going it will be transplanted into something else.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Tyler, you may well be the exception to the rule - but it would be neat to return to your post in 10-15 years, and see how it actually turns out...



I made similar statements myself concerning past vehicles I was in love with at the time - they are now all long gone - including the last '91 Dodge/Cummins I parted with to get my current '02...



Sure do wish I still had my old '40 Ford tho' - and the '50 Olds coupe was sure nice - then there was...

 

[Cummins Pilot]

I know I say I'm not going to get rid of it. I figure in a few years mine will be paid off and I'll drive it for 10-15 years. Then I'll probably get another truck (if they exists then with current greenies running around). It will be retired to either a play rig or a weekend worker. Or perhaps that old fixer upper for the kid who just got his license. (no kids yet)



My dad was good at driving something until it gave its last breath. I learned from him its hard to get the value out of a vehicle unless you drive it to the end. Selling it 4/5 through its life you'll never get the money you think its worth.



But I'd still rather put in the best oil even if I sell it tomorrow. No reason to trash a rig even if its being sold. I have a conscience about stuff like that.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I sure agree with your idea of keeping stuff and getting the wear out of it - a "generation" thing I guess - today seems to cater to a "throw-away" mindset - buy it, treat it like crap, toss it and buy something else...



I too come from a different mindset, I research stuff I buy - even the cheaper stuff, and then get as much value as possible out of my investment. Our current society will be in deep trouble if they ever face difficult times that force them to actually take care of their stuff because they can't afford to replace it!

 

[CGriffith]

CumminsPuller

Ever seen the BobIsTheOilguy forum? There is lots of info on oil there and guys that really love talking about it.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

 

[y-knot]

I think it should be what ever you are comfortable with, I happen to be very comfortable with synthetics, Amsoil. If your thing is Castrol, or pep boys oil then go with it. I don't believe more then 5% of readers on this forum could tell the differance or even understand it. For to really appreciate the beauty oil synthetic's, one has to look on the inside. From most people's standpoint, in front of their truck starring at the engine, there seems to be very little difference, just remove the cap and pour it in. But from inside, you get to see the reduced wear, and how clean it keeps the engine. I started running synthetics way before I bought my first diesel, I had started while racing a turbocharged sand car on nitrous. The reduction in heat was immediate,and I no longer had to pre-heat the oil pryer to the run. On the in-side, wear was no longer an issue, an went from a re-build every 15 passes, to only once a season. I had been having main bearing wear, we launch at 7500 rpm, and it's very hard on them. Also the turbo was spinning at 160,000rpm, and oil foaming was a huge problem, the turbo litterly whipped the oil into a creamy foam, which leads to oil starvation. Foam can not be pressurized, the air in it prevents this, which leads to low oil pressure and oil related failures. The synthetics resist this, resulting in a better more consistent pressurized oiling system.

I run synthetics in every engine or pump I have, for me there is no substitute. Sure they coast more up front, but they do pay for themselves in the longer run. Problem is most people don't keep their trucks long enough to find out, most lease. If that is your bag, then synthetics probably are not for you. Same with the oil filters, Fleatguard is one of the best, and yes it is a little more then others, but that is because they work. I believe keeping the filters changed is as important as what oil you use, they after all are the first line of defense, they remove the debre. I change them every 2000 miles, just spin the old off, and the new one on, and add a quart, takes less then 5 min.

 

[Ron Bissett]

If it is Mil spec . Its the same no matter what brand . If not could be a toss up your dime. Ron Bissett in Metro Louisville KY

 

[WadePatton]

I'm running one truck on synthetic (not spec) and a bypass filter (mil-spec paper towel holder). The other truck is running on oldSmella and HQ spin-ons.



If one wears out faster than the other, I'll report.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

If one wears out faster than the other, I'll report.



I'll be on pins and needles for the next 20 years Wade...

 

[dalton4]

I agree with what Gary stated above on maybe one similar oil being better in "hot" or "cold" applications. Rotella T and Delo 15w-40 are both CI-4 rated. However, the spec sheet for Delo 15w-40 shows a lower pour point. I believe this would give the Delo an advantage in cold weather starts.

 

[tgbol]

One thing that is missed here is that the specs are minimun reqirements. Many oils will meet a spec, but also far exceed them.

In reality any oil today that meets the specs is a GOOD oil. you can use any of them with confidence.

 

[Ralph Wood]

I have sold three types of submicronic bypass filters and worked for three oil companies in the last forty years. Your engine doesnt care which of the submicronic bypass filters you use. For the most part it doesnt care which oil you use.

I was reading in a maintenance book not to use synthetic oil because it flows better than conventional oil and will flow off the parts better at shut down. We use Delo 400 15-40 in the equipment at work. We normally run the trucks up to two million miles. I saw one truck with over one million miles that still has the hone marks in the liners using Shell Rotella T 15-40.

I am at the point in life where I can think of selling filters as a hobby and sell only the filters I like the best. Back when I started you didnt use multi grade oil in a diesel truck. The additives were no good. That has changed. The most important thing now and always has been to keep your lubricants clean. The same goes for the coolant and fuel. I dont normally drain oil. I soon determine how often I need to change the filter to keep the oil clean and add enough new oil to keep the soot that even a submicronic bypass filter cant remove diluted down to a safe level. The additives take care of themselves in clean oil.

Marketing is interesting. Instead of making a better filter they use a different sales pitch. They use fancy words but the best filters are still just plain old cellulose. The big filters you see bolted to the side of trucks in the construction business mostly use shredded newspapers and wood chips. You might find the following interesting:



"Title: Don't Bypass Bypass Filters

Author: Gelinas, Tom

Journal: Fleet Equipment Vol: 14 Iss: 7

Date: Jul 1988 pp. 39-41

Abstract: According to some estimates, 60% of the potential causes of engine wear and failure can be eliminated by a well-designed and properly applied filtration system. Cummins Engine Co. recommends that both a bypass filter and a full-flow filter be used. A bypass filter shunts 10% of the total oil pump output through a filter and then back to the sump, bypassing the engine. Because this filter has high-pressure differential and low flow rate, it can filter out fine particles in the 5-micron range. In contrast, a full-flow filter has a low-pressure differential and filters out only large particles in the 40 micron to 60 micron range. However, the full-flow filter is located so that all of the oil must flow through it before reaching the bearings. The combination of these 2 filter types gives double protection against wear. Studies at the Cummins Technical Center indicate that wear can be reduced up to 91% by using a bypass filter in combination with a full-flow filter. "



"EnviroSense

Department of Defense

Pollution Prevention Technical Library



Bypass Filter for Vehicle Motor Oil Introduction:

Gasoline and diesel fueled internal combustion engines require

lubricating oil to reduce friction and dissipate heat. The lubricating oil must be changed once the oil's effectiveness diminishes. Lubricating effectiveness generally does not deteriorate in high-quality oils, but what does occur is contamination of the oil with particles and a breakdown of the

lubricating oil's additive package. The additive package, which can be 50 percent of the oil's volume is responsible for maintaining pH and preventing deterioration of the oil. Bypass filters are designed to remove smaller particulate than would normally be removed by the engine's normal filter so that oil changes are not necessary. Oil added during filter changing, and to replace burned oil, is normally sufficient to replenish the oil's additive package. "



Ralph

 

[CumminsPuller]

Good post Ralph.



Jason