Another statistic for the lift pump legacy

[mbrolin]

I recently installed a fuel pressure gauge. Darn good thing I did. My readings were great. 15 psi @ idle,11-12psi @ cruising speed,a minimum of 9psi @ WOT. Note I said were great!Yesterday morning the readings took a dive. A maximum of 11psi and a minimum of 0psi WOT. At first I thought it could be my sending unit. But I ruled that out because when bumpimg the starter I would get 15psi. When the truck is running it is 9psi @ idle,6-7 psi when cruising and 0psi WOT. In fact once it dropped to zero and stayed there for about 3 miles at 2100rpm. It goes to the dealer Tuesday. I hope they tell me it is just my sending unit. But if not its a lift pump and I would assume that with a 0psi reading that an injector pump is needed. Correct?Naturally it just before a trip to eastern Oregon and this dealer doesnt stock anything as far as parts.

 

[RJOL]

Michael... When and were did you install the fuel pressure gauge and sender. The reason I ask is that I installed a Westach sender directly on the VP44 inlet and it worked fine for a few hundred miles. All of a sudden the pressures started to drop, and hovered around zero. I took the sender off the VP44, used a rubber extension fuel hose to mount the sender up near the power distribution center, and bled most the air out of the hose. The gauge has worked perfectly since then, for over 5K. Also, even if it is the lift pump going bad does not mean that the VP44 has to be replaced. It has the ability to "suck" some fuel from the tank, on its own. I would limit my driving until I made sure what the problem was. Good luck...

 

[obert]

I definatly know that feeling. My lift pump shat itself (and with it the inj. pump) about three days before needing it to haul parts to a big IH tractor swapmeet and sale in northwesten OH. Dad's Ol' '94 had to save my *** (again). He had to take his load and mine I got mine back in time to bring the empty trailer home though.



After witnesing my massive pump failure, several small electrical problems, and a melted piston w/ roasted engine block, Dad's ready to stick to the old mechanical trucks-- his has only had one minor engine problem in nearly 200k miles -- the feul shutdown solenoid shorted... .



Here's to hoping the '03 EPA engine is rid of these bugs.....

 

[GGades]

Get yourself a fluid filled 0-15 or0-30 guage and use it for a backup. Tape or tie wrap it to your wiper to read wwhie on the road. Senders don't seem to like being mounted real close to the pump. Had the same problem with an autometer setup, but mine would stay on 15psi all the time.

 

[Whitmore]

Sounds like you have just joined the lift pump club, My 5 screw stealer said drive the truck up here and we will test it , my comment was not favorable toward doing business with them in the future , I am now my own warrentee station. Went to CUMMINS and got a new lift pump from them ..... all good now. see sig for part #... ... ... ... Kevin

 

[pwr2tow]

I don't think your injector pump is shot only time will tell though.

The lift pump should be covered under the 100,000 mile or 5 year warranty. If the dealer will not replace it under warranty get a new lift pump from cummin, the cummins pump is the same as the dealers and it only costs $150. 00 compared to the dealers screw job of $400. 00 installed. The lift pump is easy to replace once you have done it, the first time will take approxiamtly 1 hour and thats takeing time to be meticulas, the second time can be done in less than an hour.



Ron

 

[Whitmore]

and the 3rd time you can do it with both hands tied behind your back, standing on one foot and wistling Dixie all at once

 

[mbrolin]

RJOL,My sending unit is mounted on the left apron near the hood hinge. Im using about 2ft. of rubber fuel line fed off of the line entering the fuel filter with the tapped banjo bolt. At first I thought it could be the sender as well. But the readings are consistently low. If is the sender then I would have to pay their $65 diagnostic fee and I would not be comfortable using the Westach gauge. Find out Tuesday.

 

[X-10]

I'd bet on the lift pump. Sounds just like mine did a couple weeks ago. Hope your dealer does you right. Good luck Tuesday.

Doug

 

[Larry Willard]

Mike

I agre. . sounds like the lift pump. Good luck with the dealer, mine felt that regardless of the pressures specified in the service manual that if it was running it couldn't be bad. I ran to May Madness last year with a lot of o pressures, and then Carson Dodge replaced it.

I figured if they like the idea of no pressure, then they could buy me a new injector pump later. I have since replaced that one myself with one from Cummins which is now starting to lose a little of its pressure after about 10000 miles. Looks like a 2nd pump near the tank soon.

Larry

 

[pwr2tow]

If the service rep tells you that 9lb psi at idle is o. k. (which they probably will) then look at him and say lets go for a ride and see if those pressures are normal, if he says they are normal look at him and tell him you want to talk to the service manager and if he says there normal tell him to call the regional rep and get his opinion. If they call you later and say the regional rep says the pressures are fine ask the service manager for the regional reps phone number and do it yourself. Some times the service guys are over worked and do not have time to go through all the hoops DC has set up so if you do as stated above it might say you some time running back and forth to the dealer or going to another dealer and remember it is covered under the 100,000 mile or 5 year warranty.



Ron

 

[WOT]

Ok... I'm a little confused. I didn't think the lift pump was covered under the 5/100,000 mile engine warrantee. Can someone tell me where I can verify that it is covered?



Thanks!

 

[obert]

WOT-- it looks like you bought your truck new, so you should have a waranty book in your ownwer's manual pakage. Cant remember exact wording but i think it does say pumpS. Try that, unless your good friends with the service manager and he'll give you a straight answer... .

 

[WOT]

obert,



Ahh... Found it. Under Emissions warrantee - 5/100,000. I guess next time I'll look first!



Thanks,

WOT

 

[obert]

If you would have looked first youl wouldn't have had to spend quality time on this handy website..... :-laf

 

[THancock]

My question, and it's probably been asked before, is why doesn't DC find a cure for this obvious problem? I for one am pretty disapointed with this kind of junk in my truck and can't figure why DC doesn't address it.

Seems like the three big worries are clutches, lift pumps and auto trannies. To bad they can't get these thing right on what seems to be a fairly decent truck otherwise. It's all starting to make me wonder if I made the right choice in vehicles!

 

[1tuffram]

Originally posted by THancock

My question, and it's probably been asked before, is why doesn't DC find a cure for this obvious problem? I for one am pretty disapointed with this kind of junk in my truck and can't figure why DC doesn't address it.

Seems like the three big worries are clutches, lift pumps and auto trannies. To bad they can't get these thing right on what seems to be a fairly decent truck otherwise. It's all starting to make me wonder if I made the right choice in vehicles!

I'm guessing it's economics, the bean counters have probably figured it's cheaper this way than to go back to the drawing board and redesign things, re-tool the assembly lines, and the losses aquired from the stock pile of marginally designed junk no longer having any use.



It would be interesting to see some statistics on how many trucks have had lift pump replacements under warranty vs how many have been built. I suspect the vast majority of non-TDR members are unaware of this problem and get taken advantage of by dealers saying the lift pump is "OK" or is only covered under the 3/36 warranty. How many non-TDR folks put FP guages on their trucks and monitor fuel pressures? How many post have we read of Service Depts tring to pull the wool over peoples eyes by saying as long as the truck is running it doesn't matter idle fuel pressures are marginal and WOT are ridiculously low, just send them out the door and hope it holds out thru the warranty (which they want you to believe is only 3/36). I never would have known lift pumps are covered under the 5/100 emissions warranty (and not many service depts acknowledge this or inform the unknowing customer) had it not been for the TDR.



Guess my point is DC warranty Dept and the bean counters have probably determined the vast majority of Dodge Diesel owners are uninformed and easily taken advantage of by the games service depts play to avoid warranty repairs which just puts more money in DC's pockets since they weassle out of warranty repairs and/or having to fork out more $$ for better quality parts and design.



This is just my opinion, but I bet service depts hate it when informed TDR folks show up for warranty repairs



Knowledge is power. This is the informed customer... ... , and this is the service/warranty managers and DC warranty dept... ... .

 

[Challenger-II]

Originally posted by 1tuffram







How many post have we read of Service Depts tring to pull the wool over peoples eyes by saying as long as the truck is running it doesn't matter idle fuel pressures are marginal and WOT are ridiculously low, just send them out the door and hope it holds out thru the warranty (which they want you to believe is only 3/36). I never would have known lift pumps are covered under the 5/100 emissions warranty (and not many service depts acknowledge this or inform the unknowing customer) had it not been for the TDR.

Where is it stated that the lift pump is covered under the 5/100 emissions warranty?? I would like to have this in writing as ammo for when I need to get my pump replaced. I would love to shove it right back in their face but need to prove it too. Where is it in writing?

 

[WOT]

ok... unless I am reading this wrong it looks like it is really under the 7/100,000 LONG-TERM Emissions section... . See Page 16 & 17 of the Warranty Information booklet that came with the truck. It says "Fuel Pump Assembly" is covered.

 

[obert]

ref to 1tuffram

its ironic..... my loacal small town dealer in MT sterling, OH treats me ok. The service manager is a fellow TDR member, and i am a service tech in con/ex (Bobcat). We developed an understanding that i will not have the wool over my eyes, simply because i know better and i see it happen to my customers (yes, thru the bean coounters up front- we in the shop are as honest as we can, even whan that brutal honest irritates the customer).



But when i walk into the big 5-star dealer in columbus, i get the run around, especialy when i present info, that in the dealers eyes, i probly shouldnt have- like the tsb number for an upgrade that i wanted to have done. It was just an ECM thing and he wanted to charge 2 hour labor. I got it done for free at a local place in Piqua OH while at a factory training school for work.



Go to your friendly dodge dealer and bother them. make them get to know you. And being informed helps alot, which is why were all here on the TDR