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Anyone running a rear locker?

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I have an open rear diff - one wheel drive sucks;) - and would like to upgrade to a limited slip, but the PowerLok unit is too #@!$% expensive. :eek:



Is anyone running a "hard" locker (Detroit, Lockright, NoSlip, etc) in their truck? If so, how does it drive - both loaded and empty? My Jeep has Detroits at both ends and it can be a real handful to drive, but the short wheelbase, 5-speed, and sitting about 8" higher than stock probably has a lot to do with that. ;)



My daily commute is 21 miles each way, through town, with lots of traffic lights. When I'm fully loaded with the cabover on and the Jeep on the trailer, I'm sitting right around 14k pounds. I'm curious about how a hard locker will affect the driveability of the truck.
 
I'd never put a locker in a daily driver. Makes them handle poorly, good way to break stuff, eat up tires, horrible on ice etc. I've got 2 in my jeep as well, and that thing is so dangerous I won't let anyone else drive it. Now if it's a toy, that's a different story. Just my 2 cents

AJ
 
My Jeep - locked at both ends - was my daily driver for quite a while. It wasn't bad until I went from 2" to 4"+ lift and stepped up to the 35's. It's still capable of pulling DD duties, but the Dodge gets better fuel mileage and the 5-speed sucks in traffic. ;) One thing I notice is that the more I drive it, the more "in tune" I become with the quirks of the locker.



Haven't broken anything - yet;) - even when I was running a *GASP* locked Dana 35. I'm pretty easy on the gas, though. ;)



Tires are a different story..... :p
 
Dan,,,,the Man,,,,

I too have heard the same thing. That a locking diff. is a real bear to drive as a DD. How much ice do you git per year, on average?





:p









-S
 
Dan

My jeep did pretty much the same thing after I got it lifted and put 35s on it. I suppose that I could use it as a daily driver, but if I had a choice I'd rather not. It's real goosey through corners (especially under any throttle changes), course it's older and doesn't have the coil springs. Another thing I would be afraid of with a locker in the rear of a CTD would be the locker actually holding up to all that power. I'd be scared to grenade one. I love what lockers do offroad, but I don't think I could tolerate one on a daily basis in my truck.

AJ
 
Originally posted by Greenleaf

How much ice do you git per year, on average?



About the only ice I see around here is in my drink. :D



If ice were an issue I wouldn't be considering an automatic locker - the few occasions I've hit ice in the Jeep have been a little "interesting," to say the least. :eek:



AJ - Even with the coils mine behaves the same way. When it was my DD I was able to adjust my driving style to minimize the effects - just took some practice. I'm still glad I have the truck to drive though... . ;)
 
Dan,

I guess I just like to hotrod!! With a 304, 4. 88 gears, straight dual pipes, and headders I just can't keep my foot out of it (I just love the sound). It's probably a good thing I have my truck too!! Luckily I never put the top on it, so it doesn't see ice anymore. An ARB sure would be a sweeeeet setup for your truck. Gotta couple grand to blow????

AJ
 
I run a detroit in the rear of my 75 until I couldn't keep axels shafts in it truck pulling. It has a 14bolt now, and when I find a home for the 60 rear detroit I will get a locker for the 14 bolt.



My $. 02 is as follows. I would run a locker in a fullsize truck on the street. I despise open rear ends. My 90 will get lockers in both ends and will drive on the street. The wheelbase, width and weight make a big differnce. I would however worry about towing with it. My ls is real tight in my 93 and it makes pretty good noise when accelerating around a corner loaded. My truck will actually spin both tires under the loaded trailer in first gear around a corner. I would be afraid of breaking axel shafts while towing with a locker, but then I tow heavy, my trailer and truck weigh 15,000 empty, and I put two fullsize truck on the trailer.



I think the factory ls in my 93 is good money spent. I have never had it apart, with 210,000 miles, it will still spin both tires around corners. Its tight.



Michael
 
Thanks, Michael. :) Issues while towing are my biggest concern, and it sounds like a locker may be too aggressive for what I'll be doing.



Too bad a D80 is such a PITA to swap in - I could get a limited slip and rear discs at the same time.....
 
Mike Miller -



What's your experience in snow and ice with the rear end locked up? I, too, am not too fond of open rear ends, which is what the '91 I'm currently running has. This is the first truck I've owned in 25+ years that has had an open dif, so I'm looking to upgrade :). All my street trucks/daily drivers have had limited slip rear ends, and I've like how they've performed - a nice balance for daily usage, towing, inclement weather and other low traction situations. (Once you get used to 'em and know how to drive 'em!)



Since I'm upgrading an existing open dif, I have the option to go with either a limited slip or a (Detroit) locker. A limited slip is a 'known quantity' for me, but I'm considering the locker option just because it is a little more aggressive. My concern with the locker is two fold: Living in Michigan winter and other inclement weather is a real concern - how much more dificult is a locker to handle than a tight limited slip? And a secondary issue is of course towing with the locker. My max tow loads are in the 7,000# - 8,000# range.



Thanks for any feedback!!!



Mike
 
Dan,

I've been running lock-rites in the front and back for 5 years now, about 90k miles, no problems at all, and i don'r baby it either.



it does wear out the rear tires pretty quik, and you don't accelerate out of a turn real hard or the back end will pass you,

theres no stearing into it when it goes it gone.



Rick
 
I do not have a locker on my truck but there are so many setups, you should be able to get one that is able to be turned off like an air locker or something. My other trucks do not have a prob with them. If your truck is lower and with a longer wheelbase than a jeep, it would be less ``squirrly"



You could also ask in the offroad section - they may know what all you should get.



And ofcourse, just get what you need, not what you want. What is in your head matters more that what is on your truck... . I have whooped many 4wd mile-high locker boys w/ an open rear 2wd. It will make you feel good when you whoop someone and yours is just an open... . :D



But I will have to admit, opens do suck... one wheel drive, and un-ballanced - gets stuck real quick and takes a lot of ``help" to get out, not to mention the sliding around deal. With these trucks, you can carry weight that you do not have the tire-spinning probs as a jeep would have. Just use the pbrake, good judgement, and carry lots of weight. It does suck having that heavy cummins up front though.....
 
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I will admit my 75 has never been driven on the ice. I will also admit that my 93 is so tight that its a handful in any kind of ice/wet roads, especially since the bigger injectors went in. My driving experience between my 93 ls and detroit locker in full size trucks I would not have a problem having a detroit in the rear of any of my trucks. In fact all my trucks except the 93 will eventually have detroits in them. There are only two reasons I won't have one in my 93. One is towing, the other is the ls works perfect in the truck, no reason to change it out. I have driven my dads 95 dodge with a supposed ls and it spins one tire around corners. Get on my truck on dry pavement and you better be ready to countersteer, cause the rear ends comming around.



My wife and my brother will not drive my 93 in the rain because the ls is so tight and the cummins will get you in trouble in a heartbeat. The truck will get loose on wet pavement in every gear except overdrive quite easily. Work at it and it will light the tires in 5th on wet pavement. I like my ls this way, I hate having one wheel just set there looking stoopid while the other one spins. Thats why all my other trucks will get lockers for offroading and truck pulling.



My buddy has a 78 ford bronco on 38" swampers that until recently was his daily driver. Had half ton axels in it with lockers, truck was great, except for breakage. He stepped up to one ton axels and locker in the rear, but just ls up front. First time on the ice he hated the ls up front. Went to detroit up front and like it alot better. He said the truck needed ALOT more input from the steering wheel on crappy roads with the ls in 4X4. Just his opinion.



I apolojize for my long winded ness. Many people do have different opionions on lockers, but they usually have them in something small, short wheel base, tall, large bias ply tires. This type of vehicle just makes the locker have a larger effect on handling. With our large trucks a lot if soaked up because it is harder for the truck to be tweaked like a jeep. I on the other hand prefer as many wheels as possible pulling the truck, wether it be on a sunny day, or crappy as heck. I am a driver though, not just a run of the mill, gotta have ABS, airbags, and all season radials to get anywhere. Not trying to cause an argument, just letting everyone know who I am. I live by differnt strokes for differnt folks. Some people want something thats easy to drive, and thats fine. For a majority of the population that is adequete. For me though, I don't mind my stuff a little "squirrly. " I have driven my truck long enough to know what is going to happen before I move the truck. The lockers, or ls seem to always have the same respnonse to wet roads, excess throttle input, and ect.



I would not sweat a locker in the rear of a full size truck, unless towing heavy. 7,000-8,000# I don't know. With responsible driving you should be ok. If you're gonna be torqueing the crap out of it, don't be suprised by a broken axel. The tire wear, I like the fact that the rear tires tend to wear at the same rate on my trucks. We used to have a dakota with an open rear, and it would always chew off one tire. I dislike that. I dislike standing on the gas(or diesel) and waste all that performance on one tire smoking. My friends and I have little problems with a detroit, or even a lock right for that matter breaking. Its usually axels shafts and u-joints. A cheaper way to decide if you want a locker or not is to purchase a lockrite, it replaces all the gears in the differetial carrier. Easy install in a couple of hours. No special oil, no ratcheting noise, and locker performance. I run one of these in the front of my 75. Haven't had any problems yet. I truck pull it with sometimes 1000# of suitcase weights on the front bumper, BUT I am always going straight while doing this.



NOW in conclusion. When installing a tight ls or a locker be prepared for the driving to be differnt. It will have a noticable feel, locker will be more pronounced. You will start having some issues with axel wrap when on the power hard, because our trucks have leaf springs and blocks. You will now notice this because you are no longer spinning one tire. If you like the feel of planting the tires to the ground, prepared to be able to steer the truck with the rear end, and in general like to drive something performance oriented then go ahead and get the ls or a locker. If you are unsure, your truck works adequetly for you now and dont mind being stuck on a patch of ice with the other tire on dry pavement then don't change your truck. If you want, just come on out to Iowa and drive all my trucks to see if you like em!! I hope this helps.



Michael
 
Thanks for the input, everyone!:) There are obviously benefits of each, just as each has their drawbacks.



Expensive or not, it looks like the limited slip will be better for my needs. Actually, and ARB would be best, but I'm just not willing to fork out that kind of money... . ;)



Once the bank account recovers from buying the trailer, guess I'll start hunting around for the best price on the Power Lok... or maybe I'll get injectors first. Four inch exhaust would be nice, too... aw, hell - I need to win the Powerball. :D
 
Hey Michael -



Thanks for the great comeback!!



Couple points - I drove late-model Dodge diesels for since late '99 and loved 'em. Only got a '91 because I got tired of the high LEASE payments, and I was very limited to what I could do to the trucks. My last lease truck was a '93 2500 Quad 4x4 w/ 5 Speed and that truck rocked! With those late model trucks I know what you mean about the tail end coming around on you!!! What I used to do with those trucks whenever it rained was just drop it into 4WD - I was beating most cars off the line at red lights!!



I'm no stranger to the mannerisms of limited slip rear ends - they definitely drive different than open difs. What I've noticed is when you drop it into 4WD (open front difs) that seems to offset a lot of the effects of the rear end in poor weather.



I find your comments interesting about a front locker driving easier than a front limited slip. I've shyed away from front traction devices on my daily drivers because I wasnn't sure how'd they be on the street. It so happens that I have an Eaton Dana 60 gov-lock on the shelf that I might drop into my front axle. What do yo think?



I also find it interesting in this thread that a couple of TDR guys have been running Lock-Rights in there rear axles. I have a '78 CJ-7 that's pretty hard core front/rear Dana 44s and a Detroit in the back and a Lock-Right in the front, following 'conventional wisdom' that Lock-Rights aren't strong enough to last in the rear dif but are OK in the front. Like your '93, there's not too many people I let drive her 'cuz she can get squirely if you're not careful!!



Unfortunately, I won't be doing the rearend upgrade real soon - got a couple more things to do to her this spring and then the 2004 truck budget will just about be used up!! But I saw this post and had to jump in!!



Mike
 
Last I saw, they were awful proud of those OX lockers. I think they were only a couple hundred cheaper than ARBs (not that I could afford those either). Course I haven't seen a price on one since they first came out. I thought it might be nice for the Jeep until I saw the price. BTW Hunter, I have a lockrite in the rear of my 83 CJ with an AMC 20 ( I know, I know) and 35x14. 50 Boggers, and haven't had any problems in 5 years with the locker.

AJ
 
I ran Detroit Lockers for years of daily driving in 149" and 165" wheel base Dodge pickups. They are very tame with long wheelbases and heavy trucks. For such trucks, I feel the DL is the only posi worth buying--the others are either weaker, and/or far less effective. For ice and snow, I still prefer open diffs most of the time. . .
 
So what kind of limited slip was factory-installed into our trucks? Powerloc? Tracloc? My current rear axle has an open diff, but I've owned 1st gen Dodge diesels in the past with factory limited slips and really liked them. I too am considering either installing a LS or a full locker.



I have plenty of experience with lockers... offroading... currently running late model Tacoma electric lockers in my '79 Toy pickup (the electric lockers are just like an ARB, go from full open to full locked with the flip of a switch, except no air leaks to deal with)



One thing to remember is that some trucks came stock with a Detriot locker... '67 to '72 Chevy's for example.



John
 
A lot of my Jeeping buds run the Ox Locker with a lot of success. That is one well built piece of equipment. But, I haven't seen them for Dana 70's yet, and to be perfectly honest, while I'd love it on my Jeep, I don't think I'd care for it on my daily driver. And you're also right about them being a little pricey. What I like most about the Ox Locker is no air or electricity to mess with.



AJ - You're definitley living right to run that setup for 5 years with no problems!! LOL!! I'm running 35x12. 50 Swamper SSRs on my Jeep and have never had a problem with my Dana 44s - although I broke my front Dana 30 3 times (let's not taolk about that part right now, OK!!) before going over to a front Dana 44!!



For the record, DTS (Warren, MI) has a Dana 70 Trac-Loc for around $700-$800, and it looks like a Detroit Locker is anywhere form $100 to $150 less. Hmmmm, maybe I'll just go with the locker after all... ... ... :D:D!!



One more small point - even though I usually set up my own diferrentials, if I'm going to spend that much money on either the Detroit or a Trac-Loc, I'll pay the extra $125 to let them set it up for me!! Besides, that's a lot of steel your playing with on a Dana 70!!!!
 
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