Anyone use Perma Cool Engine Oil Cooler?

[Wiredawg]

Fellow Rammers:



I'm looking at installing an engine oil cooler on my 02 to help keep down temps while pulling heavy on grades in the summer. Has anyone used one of these: http://perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page08.html



This is a special application for Dodge Cummins. Seems logical cooling oil would have significant inmact on motor temps.



I appreciate your frank comments.



Wiredawg

 

[PC12Driver]

Because of the built-in oil cooler (uses engine coolant), our oil temps are always within 5* +/- of the water temps. Even when pulling heavy they stay about the same. I don't know if it would be worth it to me.



But then again, I don't live in Texas. And more cooling surface area is more cooling surface area...

 

[d90boy]

I wouldn't use it for this reason:



"Uses oil filters with 3/4"-16 threads, such as Perma-Cool® 81008, Fram® PH8A or equivalent (oil filters not included). "

 

[RustyJC]

"Uses oil filters with 3/4"-16 threads, such as Perma-Cool® 81008, Fram® PH8A or equivalent (oil filters not included). "

IIRC, the Fram PH8A is for most Ford applications. I remember running PH8A Frams on a 289 Mustang!! Not quite what a 5. 9L Cummins needs!!



Rusty

 

[RustyJC]

Fellow Rammers:



I'm looking at installing an engine oil cooler on my 02 to help keep down temps while pulling heavy on grades in the summer.

My 2002 never gets more than 1 or 2 needle widths to the right of the 190 mark, even towing our 16K GVWR 5th wheel in the Texas Hill Country with summertime ambients of over 100 degF. Even on the worst grades, as soon as the fan clutch kicks in, it cools down. If you're seeing more than this, you might check the radiator for fouling, the fan clutch or the thermostat.



Just a suggestion.....



Rusty

 

[Wiredawg]

More Info

All:



I agree on not using the "lesser oil filters" for my Cummins. Does ianyone know what the opening size and thread count is on the Fleetgaurd LF3498?



I've asked Perma Cool if they have a different oil filter relocation adapter that allows use of two LF3498s and I've asked Trans Dapt if they make a sandwich adapter that will keep the stock LF 3498 filter in its original location and just add the cooler. I figure the cooler and lines ought to add another 2 quarts of oil to the capacity. Worst case, I would consider installing an Amsoil bypass oil system w/ this oil cooler. If I install the cooler, I'm thinking about installing two inline valves that I can bypass the oil cooler in cold weather.



Rusty, you are right about temps/grades in Texas being OK, but pulling 26K lbs GCVW in 6 - 7 % grades in Arizona and Nevada w/ 100+ degrees outside temps w/ A/C on puts my coolant temp gauge just a hair to the left of the upper limit of the temp gauge. EGTs will be 1,200' steady pre-turbo. Radiator is clean and new coolant. My friend, Larry Willard, reports similar symptoms w/ his rig on the same conditions.



I agree with all that 90% of the time we don't need it, but extra oil and cooling can be a good thing. I used the same thought process when I added the MagHytec rear diff cover (two more pints) and the Fast Coolers (two more quarts) on my 6-spd. Maybe it's overkill, but I'm concerned about running in extreme conditions with extreme weight. Cummins has 15qt oil capacity in its other ISB applications per their brochure on the ISB.



Finally, an interesting bit of info... Summit Racing list these on backorder, so looks like a few (or a lot) of Rammers may be buying this setup.



Keep the comments coming. This is the whole point of having the TDR!



Thanks, Wiredawg

 

[HEMI®Dart]

The search is broken but if you enter LF3894 it will give you the thread.



http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/fleet/en/catalog/index.jsp

 

[DavidC]

All:



Rusty, you are right about temps/grades in Texas being OK, but pulling 26K lbs GCVW in 6 - 7 % grades in Arizona and Nevada w/ 100+ degrees outside temps w/ A/C on puts my coolant temp gauge just a hair to the left of the upper limit of the temp gauge. EGTs will be 1,200' steady pre-turbo. Radiator is clean and new coolant. My friend, Larry Willard, reports similar symptoms w/ his rig on the same conditions.



Thanks, Wiredawg

Yes, there are some grades here that when the outside air temp is at 95+ the eyes are glued to the engine temperature. Some of these grades last for miles (at least one is 6 miles). The only recourse I have found is to lift on the throttle to try to keep temps in the warning zone and not iminent danger. I am usually out of overdrive during these endeavors but it still gets unnerving.

This only happens here during the summer months, during fall,winter,and spring things seem to keep themselves in check.



Dave

 

[HEMI®Dart]

The search is broken but if you enter LF3894 it will give you the thread.



http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/fleet/en/catalog/index.jsp

It is working now:



LF3894



Largest OD: 93. 47 mm (3. 68 in)

Overall Height: 176. 02 mm (6. 93 in)

Thread Size: 1-16 UN-2B

 

[HEMI®Dart]

I wouldn't use it for this reason:



"Uses oil filters with 3/4"-16 threads, such as Perma-Cool® 81008, Fram® PH8A or equivalent (oil filters not included). "

That would not stop me from buying one. You can just cross-reference PH8A to get a Fleetguard Microglass/Stratpore, Donaldson Endurance, or an Amsoil EoA



PH8A = Amsoil EAO15

PH8A = Fleetguard LF3487 (Synthetic media) Unknown whether it's a Microglass or Stratapore.

 

[d90boy]

Do you think these filters will flow through like the LF3894 given that the thread size is 1/4" smaller and the filters are not as large? I know there are better filters than a PH8A but my concern is they are substantially smaller than what comes on the engine.

 

[RustyJC]

Also, bear in mind that the oil filter was redesigned with a thicker shell shortly after the 24V came out in order to handle high oil pressure on cold startup. Does the Fleetguard replacement for the PH8A have this capability?



Rusty

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Also, bear in mind that the oil filter was redesigned with a thicker shell shortly after the 24V came out in order to handle high oil pressure on cold startup. Does the Fleetguard replacement for the PH8A have this capability?



Rusty

Good questions. The B Series Oil pumps put out 16 GPM.

 

[boatpuller]

I haven't used one but personally I would stay away from anything that uses barbed fittings and hoseclamps to hold my engine oil, would prefer something a little stouter, also says that it has 3/8"NPT fittings on the cooler, I'd be worried that it might restrict the oil too much when it's cool so you wouldn't get much flow but build up a lot of pressure.

Just my $0. 02 but probably only worth what you paid for them:-laf



Caleb

 

[Wiredawg]

Many good points raised here. I wonder why they use 3/8" id fittings when they could have used 1/2 easily. I'm like y'all, I'm not happy to move away from the LF3894, although the Amsoil primay oil filter on their Oil bypass system looks much smaller too.



DavidC: Exactly right... I run by the EGT gauge and throttle to try to keep temps down. It's just that heat is the biggest vulnerability. Well, now I'm leaning real hard on rethinking this. That's why I post here to get the opinions of you learned Rammers.



In case ya'll are wondering, I'm getting ready to head out to May Madness. Hope to see you there.



I'll let y'all know what comes of this.



Thanks. Wiredawg

 

[PRout]

I do like the idea of adding an external oil cooler. When the filter situation is resolved I'll be adding one. I say anytime you can pull more heat out of the oil, youre looking at less wear on core parts. I remember reading a statistic that went something like: Lowering the average temps of your oil by 10 degrees can add 50% more life to an engine.

 

[Wiredawg]

I'll be the Beta Test for TDR

All:



I decided to order the oil cooler, so I'l be the Beta test for the TDR. Hope it gets here before going to May Madness. I still haven't worked out oil filter dilema yet. A producer of the oil adapters left me a v-mail to call him to discuss my questions if they produce a sandich adapter that lets me keep the stock stratapore. would have been nice if he just said yes they have thme or no they don't.



Worst case if I can not figure out, I will order the Amsoil filters for the kit.



I'll keep y'all informed.



Thanks, Wiredawg.

 

[RJWEST]

Check your oil pressure before install, Will give you a bench mark to determine how much oil pressure loss is a result of the installation.
The pressure drop may be significant, also Have you considered how the Cold weather bypass will work with the remotes,


I have not done the mod on a cummins but have used Perma cool dual
filters on a GM diesel, used the Ford filters, mistake, There is a Larger
dual adapter available that accepts the larger filters,

Notes: My dual adapter had a restriction where the threaded portion
meet the oil filter passage, Relieved the area.

Also 1st attempt at hoses was not good, too much restriction at connections
(hose diameter larger than fiting diameter... Had to I used bayonet connections for minimum pressure drop. Double clamped ( napa spring clamps ).

Did use special hose from Aero quip dealer, Fits very tight, can't get it back off easily, even without clamps,

Oil pressure drop after installation , 2-3 psi

 

[AKaiser]

IIRC, the Fram PH8A is for most Ford applications. I remember running PH8A Frams on a 289 Mustang!! Not quite what a 5. 9L Cummins needs!!



Rusty

Also able to use on Dodge 5. 2/5. 9 liter gas V8s, since the filter for these is simply a short version of the PH8A/LF1/Baldwin B2. Baldwin B2 Product Info. Anti-Drainback Valve, 8 PSID Front End By-Pass Valve.



What Baldwin calls for is a BT7349. You can also use a B7177, but it doesn't have the fluted base. Looks like the only difference.

 

[Wiredawg]

Good info

RJWEST:



Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I'm looking for. I'm not going to do the Perma Cool setup, but am looking at putting together an Amsoil bypass setup with a cooler inline. I had actually thought about installing two tees and two inline valves for cold weather that I basically bypass the cooler.



I'm not going to order anything unless I come up with something that will give me minimum 1/2" hoses, fittings and adapters.



I'll check w/ ya'll when I figure somehting out.



Thank, Wiredawg