Anyone use Perma Cool Engine Oil Cooler?

[RJWEST]

You are welcome, keep us informed,

 

[Wiredawg]

Status

All:



I thought I would share some info: I contacted Amsoil and they do not recommend connecting anything to the bypass oil system due to concerns in dropping oil pressure. I'm also discovering there are only two locations for me to mount the Amsoil bypass system. There is no room in the engine bay; I have a Scotty 2, an air tank under it, and oversize Interstate batteries. I wouldn't want to put is behind the bumper on the passenger side because a small accident would leave the truck imobile. There is room on the inside of the frame behind the passenger side motor mount. Just would have to mount a steel strip onto the frame so as to mount high enough to prevent damage from road debris.



I need advice on whether it would be effective to run an oil cooler off the tap on top of the stock oil filter location and tee the cooler return line into the oil return from the turbo.



I have to admit this has turned into a real pain. Products that are seemingly designed for our application are not really up to the standards our engines need. This past week has been a real eye opener.



Anyway, I still appreciate your toughts and comments as I decide wheter to bother with this or not.



Thanks all,



Wiredawg

 

[RJWEST]

I would suggest getting a oil system diagram, (If there is one for the cummins )
Help someone , I would like to see it also:

Let's you verify for yourself any mods...

A bypass system ( not one that steals oil from the oil system ) but
a Pump,filter,cooler system that draws from the pan and recirculates
would have no affect on the oil pressure, but would have another failure
point, would probably require a oil pan removal to do it correctly...

May want to just install a temp gage and see if it is a worthwhile project.
And , of coarse, report findings, as I have always had oil temps gages.

Remiss on this truck, so far , don't know where to add temp sensor without external oil circulation, Maybe turbo return line with a cooler ????

 

[nickleinonen]

a separate loop cooling setup for the lube oil could work ok. . if you find a good pump, you could run it off the oil drain plug [just get necessary M18(?) to JIC fitting to use as a pickup] through a strainer, through the pump, then through a cooler, and dump it back into the valve cover.

i wish it were easier to plumb in an external oil cooler. . i would do it if it was easier. i'd like to see water temps in the low 200°f while having lube oil temperatures in the 160°-180­°

 

[swmnkdinthervr]

Good questions. The B Series Oil pumps put out 16 GPM.

I know the Perma-Cool # 81000 fuel filter will handle up to 95 GPH at about 100 PSI... the inlet/outlet NPT size is 1" on this filter head...

 

[Wiredawg]

I'm going for it!

Well, I dove off the cliff. I ordered the Amsoil bypass system, 10 gals 15W-4o, and assorted 90' and 45' fittings. I also ordered a Perma-Cool oil cooler, but not the kit, just the cooler. I'm going to buy 1/2" ID fittings and 1/2" high pressure hose.



First, I'm gong to baseline the oil pressure on my w/ stock configuration. Then I'm going to install the bypass system high on the inside of the frame, behind the motor mount, trying to get as close to the stock position as possible to protect from debris and have short hose runs. I have a temp gauge I will baseline temps with too, although I don't think I'll have opportunity to tow heavy for a baseline. Once installed, I'm going to check oil pressure again and record results and check temp.



I need to do the research and find another oil port on the Cummins to feed the cooler. I'm thinking I can tee the cooler return line into the turbo return line. Maybe I can tee off of the oil pressure sending unit to feed the cooler. If this works, I'll do final pressure reading.



I may consider running a separate pump for the cooler feed and find another source to feed it. Looks like Amsoil has a self tapping port for the oil pan that I could use. gotta thingk that one out.



I'm happy for suggestions for another source for the cooler feed line or any other part of the project. I'll get the digital camera and try to document install.



The real test for the final configuration will be the run to May Madness from San Antonio. I'll keep a log and report result back here.



Well,Can't wait to start,



Wiredawg

 

[RJWEST]

Sounds like you have a plan. .

Whenever I Messed with the oil pressure system, I was always afraid of
stealing oil from a critical path, my understanding is , each /port/ branch
, downstream of the oil pump, had size restrictions to insure some positive
flow to each area, when tapping in to an area down stream, pressure may stay the same but that area may in fact starve for oil...

Not trying to be negative, just a thought... .

I will be following your project, thanks for keeping us posted.

 

[Wiredawg]

Oil Cooler, Separate flow loop...

nickleinonen:

Great idea! I've decided to take your advice and to run the oil cooler as a separate flow loop and using the drain plug as the flow source. I'm taking my stock oil plug over to Napa today to find a plug w/ a port fitting, like a B&M plug. I will run it w/ a switch inside the cab so if it's cold, we won't have the additional cooling. Thanks!



RJWEST:

We are thinking alike on this. After I posted last night, I was thinking about going by Cummins to speak to a mechanic over there about oil feed and returen possiblities off of the block. This guy has an 03 3500 and might be a good source for techy info, so I still might check him out Monday.



All:

Now, I need your help to find a worthy and reliable electric pump. I'm looking in my Summit catalogue now, but don't see anything under electric oil pumps. I'm now looking at fuel pumps, but the only thing that stands out is one that has stainless steel guts (vanes etc... ). It's rated for all types of fuels and runs about 14 psi. I'm also going to check with Napa and I may stop by a speed shop today to get their input.



Thanks all for the ongoing support... I really think this has possiblities for those of us heavy haulers that want/need additional cooling. I's cold and rainy here in San Antonio, so I'm gonna be hitting the parts stores/speed shops.



I'm hoping everything makes it in this coming week so I can engage w/ this project. I may go ahead and wire in an oil temp gauge today.



Wiredawg, 10-10 and listening in...

 

[Wiredawg]

Well,



I went by Napa, Pep Boys and Advanced Auto today and had no luck finding a tapped/drilled oil plug. I did find my old stock one today and am thinking about drilling/tapping it. I have a drill press and tap/die set. No harm trying.



There is a fitting/fasterner specialty shop I found today that was closed that has a machine shop so I will give them a call Monday.



Wiredawg over and out.

 

[DavidC]

When I installed my Oilguard system it came with the oil pan return. The drain plug has a hose fitting on one side and a allen drain plug on the other. It appears they may still use this and may be able to buy seperately. All the ports are on the sides of the plug.



http://www.oilguard.com/Merchant4/m...m&Product_Code=EPS-20-DC&Category_Code=dodge1



Dave

 

[Wiredawg]

Dave:



Many thanks... after reading your post, I e-mailed Oilguard with a request to purchase the ported plug.



Thanks again, Wiredawg

 

[Wiredawg]

All:



I received all my parts... curious note that the Amsoil bypass system has 1/2" ports but the oil line is 11/32 and the inside diameter of the oil line fittings looks to be 3/8" or less. With these restrictions, it appears it's designed to NOT flow as much oil as possible... could be a design to reduce flow. Might be worth an e-mail to Amsoil to ask why the restictions. The Perma Cool oil cooler has 1/2" ports too and I'm going to use 1/2" ID lines for it.



So, to keep moving forward, I'm going to use the supplied hardware with the Amsoil system and see what the results are. I've got a hard broke lawn tractor, tall grass and a persistant wife :-laf , so I'm not sure when I'll get this project complete.



Staying busy, Wiredawg

 

[Larry Willard]

Ron I think I have the solution to your problems. Give Viv a hand mower and send her out to do the mowing, that should keep her busy and out of your hair to get this project rolling, after that she should be good and tired and you should be able to get a full day in on the project while she gets a nap in.

Larry

 

[Wiredawg]

Larry: I beat you to that thought... and she threatened to go down and buy a new lawn tractor if I didn't get the lawn cut today. So, I took the backhoe off the tractor, put the finish mower on and cut grass the past two hours. It was only 2ft tall. Gotta keep the finance manager happy or else my upgrade funds could get cut off. :-laf Still gotta fix the lawn tractor, though.



All: I have been crazy busy all week, so hoping to start the install/testing Sat. Hardest part will be drilling the frame for the bypass mounting. I won't be able to finish though, since I still have some fittings due in from Amsoil.



I'll have my wife take some pix and I'll record some readings.



Talk at y'all later,



Wiredawg

 

[Wiredawg]

Some Progress

I thought I would share my progress:



Saturday I spent about six hours determining mounting location, fabricating a mounting bracket and adjusting it for best clearances. I decided to go against the advice of Amsoil and mount the bypass system on the engine. I found the motor mount bracket on the Cummins sufficiently long to attach a 10" steel bar. This places the bypass syst close to the height of the stock oil filter, straight and direct runs for oil lines, well clear of any road debris and easily accessible for filter changes.



I'm still missing hardware on order from Amsoil so I havent actually mounted the system yet. I installed a temp gauge and found the oil temp mirrors the coolant temp. It will be real interesting to see the reciprical occurs: If cooling the oil also cools the coolant. I hope to have everything in this week and complete the install. I looked up min oil pressures in the DC svc manual: 10 PSI @ idle and 30 PSI @ 2000 RPM.



This week I will record pressure readings stock, w/ bypass and w/ bypass and cooler. My wife already took pix of the bypass syst w/ the bracket I made. I will post those and the rest next week.



I figure real test will be trip to Nevada for May Madness. I plan on running the first 300 miles w/out the cooler to check coolant and oil temps then open the cooler valve and check again.



Will post more as I make progress.



Wiredawg

 

[Wiredawg]

Job Complete

All:



I finished the project this evening. The UPS guy came rolling up w/ my remainng hose fittings and hose. I located the cooler behind the bumper in front of the condenser. There wasn'r enough clearance to mount above the bumper behind the grill. I could have mounted it on the right side, but would have had to notched the bumper mounting braket to clear the cooler fitings. I managed to have the cooler located down by lower openings by the factory fog lights.



I had a bad fitting that leaked on my on of my bypass valves, so I temporarily removed it and installed two barrel fittings. I didn't have tim to check pressure w/ my mechnaicaal gauge, but there is no discernable drop in oil pressure on the factory oil pressure gauge.



So, next I will post pictures and temperature drop results. I may fix the bypass valves so i can record temps w/ cooler and w/out cooler.



On a side note, I didn't waste time while waiting for the parts... I installed a second roof A/C unit on my 5th wheel to help keep 'er cool in the desert. Cut the hole perfectly and completed install in 3 hours.



Hope to see some of you at May Madness. I will be posting on my way there and while there.



Take care and thanks for all the inputs.



Wiredawg



My wife took pictures,b ut i will post them while on the road to May Madness.

 

[JoeZimmerman]

Cooler Oil

I was curious if you are running syn. oil? Could you increase air flow through radiator? Could your fan clutch be slipping? Horton has a electric fan clutch controlled by water temp. Hope oil cooler heps now that warmer weather is closer. Joe

 

[EricBu12]

Wiredawg.



I tow a heavy 5th and soon I will be adding a dunebuggy on a second trailer. do you have an auto? I have a manual and a horton fan. still gets very warm on hard pulls even with the horton. if you have an auto would the cooler fit in front of the A/C condensor?



Why could you not use the secondary port next to the one for the turbo? put a restriction so pressures are good and flow back to the valve cover... I will follow this. I am not going to MM otherwise I'd loo you up to see your system.

 

[Wiredawg]

Happy so far, but...

We're in Alemagorda NM and we've already had several 6 and 7% grades. I'm pretty pleased with cooler as I'm seeing 10' to 15' cooler coolant temps on the grades. I also noticed running empty w/out cooler I saw 190 to 200 degree oil temps. Hotest I saw today was 210'. I'm thinking 10 to 20' oil temp increase running 65 up 7' w/ 27. 5K GCVW aint bad. This is first runusing Amsoil bypass filter and 15W-40 synthetic too. My 3500 has a 6spd manual. I have oil temp probe in tap next to turbo oil feed.



I decided while at May Madness, I'm gonna move the cooler to the right hand side of radiator and cut a small notch in the bumper mount. I know I'll get much better results w/ full air flow thru the cooler, versus where it is behind the front bumper. The right hand side of the radiator, beside the A/C condensos is the only place the oil cooler will fit for good airflow. The hood safety release latch interferes at the bottom and where the bar runs up to the latch. Bad on me for assuming it would fit, just 'cause Perma Cool says it will.



I'm also goon get my bypass valve leaking problem fixed and get them installed. That way, I can really compare benefit of running w/ and w/ out cooler towing heavy. But the main reason is I can bypass the cooler in cold weather. Yep, it does get down to 32' once or twice a year, and I won't need my oil cooled when it does.



Well, gotta go now. Heading to Death Valley today and tomorrow and look to pull into Pahrump on Monday afternoon. Will post if anything comes up.



Take care, Wiredawg

 

[Wiredawg]

Happy so far, but...

We're in Alemagorda NM and we've already had several 6 and 7% grades. I'm pretty pleased with cooler as I'm seeing 10' to 15' cooler coolant temps on the grades. I also noticed running empty w/out cooler I saw 190 to 200 degree oil temps. Hotest I saw today was 210'. I'm thinking 10 to 20' oil temp increase running 65 up 7' w/ 27. 5K GCVW aint bad. This is first runusing Amsoil bypass filter and 15W-40 synthetic too. My 3500 has a 6spd manual. I have oil temp probe in tap next to turbo oil feed.



I decided while at May Madness, I'm gonna move the cooler to the right hand side of radiator and cut a small notch in the bumper mount. I know I'll get much better results w/ full air flow thru the cooler, versus where it is behind the front bumper. The right hand side of the radiator, beside the A/C condensos is the only place the oil cooler will fit for good airflow. The hood safety release latch interferes at the bottom and where the bar runs up to the latch. Bad on me for assuming it would fit, just 'cause Perma Cool says it will.



I'm also goon get my bypass valve leaking problem fixed and get them installed. That way, I can really compare benefit of running w/ and w/ out cooler towing heavy. But the main reason is I can bypass the cooler in cold weather. Yep, it does get down to 32' once or twice a year, and I won't need my oil cooled when it does.



Well, gotta go now. Heading to Death Valley today and tomorrow and look to pull into Pahrump on Monday afternoon. Will post if anything comes up.



Take care, Wiredawg