Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) ATF +4, DC ripoff

[Mel Swanson]

The local DC is charging around $10. 00 a quart for their ATF +4.



In my search for a comparative replacement for ATF +4 (MS9602) I located Valvoline ATF 324, which may fit the bill. Look at the last line of this page: "including aTF +3 and ATF +4"

See: www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=6&print=1



DC high dollar ATF +4 is produced by Cheveron.

See: www.ilma.org/resources/ftc_dcc_letter.pdf



EXTORTION... . when you consider what we are charged and they are braking the law and getting away with it.

See: www.imakenews.com/flashpoint/e_article000202279.cfm



I bought a case of the Valvoline Life ATF (#324) at AutoQuest for $2. 72 per quart.



Do I go with the Valvoline for life???? Words of wisdom. PLEASE! ('')



mel

 

[waterdonkey]

Nice research. I was just talking about this today with a coworker and how I would like to change my transmission fluid at regular intervals but at approx. $170. 00 just for the fluid

I hope they get the case settled soon.

 

[DJW]

Of the secret oil formula of ATF+4. Years ago a friend of mine used a very expensive cleaning fluid, he decided to pay a Lab. to analyze it, the report came back as it was 99% alcohol, plus chemicals not needed for it's intended use, although the machine manufacturer specified it's use to continue warranty on machine, the color was simply color. He continued using the plain alcohol for years without adverse effects. There is Power in Numbers, if a TDR Member decided to try a simular Trans. oil, and Documented it's use, and a number of TDR Members each chipped in to replace the Trans. at least we'd have an answer, providing of course, the vehicle was used in a Sane Manner. Wonder why an oil Distributor have not already done such? Scrum Down.

 

[Dieselnutz]

I agree 100% about what they are doing is unfair and possibly illegal. I just paid $21. 62 (plus tax) for a gallon at the local dealer.

 

[ntillm01]

I too would like to see what makes the ATF+4 so special. I bite the bullet and use it in my CTD truck and believe that it has all the right additives, in the right amount, to work well with the clutch plates for firm, non-shuddery shifts and so forth. I figure the folks who engineered the transmission know what the transmission wants flowing in it so I use it. The only unfortunate part is the place to get it, the dealer, is totally legitimately entitled to mark up the price to what ever their customer will pay (after all, it is retail).



Adding to that, Mopar Performance has long been seen as a group of engineers who care about folks driving performance Mopars. A couple of years ago, I needed to build the trans in my 72 Roadrunner, and used the MP trans kit to do it. The sheet that came with it specifically recommended ATF+4 for the clutch plates. I'm sold on the dealer stuff until proven otherwise.



p. s. - I forgot to mention that the discount parts place here, Murray's, carries ATF+4 and it ain't much cheaper than the dealer price.

 

[wlowe]

My local dealer gets 6 bucks a quart. If it is true that ATF+4 is synthetic, 6 bucks is not too bad. If it isn't synthetic, six bucks is a rip-off.

 

[RowJ]

ATF+4

If you need ATF+4, and the Valvoline says meets ATF+4 - use it!

To over simplify - ATF+4 is Deron III with a lot more Friction Modifier.



I would not use anything that says it meets ATF+4 in a transmission calling for ATF+3; even if it says ok for ATF+3. IMHO, too much friction modifier.



What your not getting with the valvoline ATF+4 is a synthetic base oil in the Mopar product (a blended synthetic, I believe)which helps in cold weather and hot summer towing.

Amsoil ATF is an excellent full synthetic substitute for ATF+4 and can be had around $6. 00 a Qt.



Mel, In Arizona, if your not towing, you could do well with the Valvoline. If towing, get a gauge for transmission temps, change fluid @ 30,000 mi. and keep it under 300 degrees (short periods) and 250 degrees for long haul.



As for the ILMA objection from Nov. 2003;

-"ILMA said that DCC has promised, but has not delivered, a licensing program for ATF+4. At the same time, the Association noted that DCC owns the additive system and will not allow the additive supplier to sell “chemistry” to companies not specified by the automaker"... ... This make little sense!

There are several approved ATF+4 brands out there, incl. Amsoil & Valvoline. The specs are public knowledge and the additives are out there for any oil co to buy. I see no violation of the Magneson- Moss Act here?

 

[jtisdale]

A buddy of mine just went to pick up some ATF+4 at the local dealer. They wanted $22 a QUART !! Needless to say he suffered from severe sticker shock and quickly left without making a purchase.

 

[ntillm01]

Originally posted by jtisdale

A buddy of mine just went to pick up some ATF+4 at the local dealer. They wanted $22 a QUART !! Needless to say he suffered from severe sticker shock and quickly left without making a purchase.

ummmm... yah... now THAT's a little too premium a price! $22 a gallon maybe, but not that.

 

[dieselshu]

VALVOLINE Maxlife

Here is a letter from Valvoline about the use of there fluid for ATF+3 & +4 and warranty issues.

THOMAS R. SMITH

Technical Director, Valvoline Brand

Phone: (859) 357-2766

Fax: (859) 357-7610

e-mail: -- email address removed --

August 14, 2003

To Whom It May Concern:

Valvoline has received several inquiries regarding the topic of MaxLife‘ ATF and its use in various vehicles

beyond those requiring Dexron III or Mercon approved products. In response to these questions Valvoline has

issued the following statements:

• Valvoline supports the use of MaxLife ATF in a broad range of transmissions beyond those requiring

Dexron III and Mercon fluids including those where the following fluids are recommended:

o GM Dexron II

o Ford Mercon V

o Allison C4

o Chrysler ATF+3“ or ATF+4“ fluids

o Toyota (and Lexus) Type T, T-III or T-IV fluids

o Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II or SP-III fluids

o Hyundai

o Honda ATF-Z1 fluid (except in CVTs)

o BMW LT71141 or LA2634 fluids

o Nissan J-Matic Fluid

• Valvoline has conducted in-house testing to support MaxLife ATF performance in these transmissions.

However, it is important to note that these vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor approved

MaxLife ATF.

• Valvoline stands behind all of its products, including MaxLife ATF. Use of MaxLife ATF in transmissions

where recommended by Valvoline WILL NOT void the vehicle’s warranty. In the unlikely event that any

transmission was to be damaged as a result of the use of MaxLife ATF, please contact Valvoline at 1-800-

Team-VAL.

While MaxLife ATF is designed to meet the special needs of higher mileage transmissions, new transmissions can

also benefit from its enhanced oxidation protection and anti-shudder protection and many consumers have chosen to

take advantage of this level of performance.

Please note that we have not done extensive testing on the new 5 and 6 speed transmissions that are now being

introduced. We would recommend contacting your Valvoline representative before using MaxLife in these

applications.

Valvoline does not recommend MaxLife ATF for use in continuously variable transmissions (CVT’s) or in

automatic transmissions where Ford Type F is recommended.

Sincerely,

Thom Smith

Technical Director

Valvoline Brand

THE VALVOLINE COMPANY • A DIVISION OF ASHLAND INC. • P. O. BOX 14000 • LEXINGTON, KENTUCKY 40512 • (859) 357-7000

 

[jtisdale]

Originally posted by ntillm01

ummmm... yah... now THAT's a little too premium a price! $22 a gallon maybe, but not that.

This is the same dealer that quoted me $98 for a ($34) throw out bearing. And they say the dealerships are our friends.

 

[pcarlson]

I paid $5. 45/quart and $22/gallon. Sounds like some dealers are ripping you guys off.

 

[Mel Swanson]

Thumbs up ATF +4, DC ripoff



Thanks for the great response. The common theme is DC willingness to break the law. The "Federal Trade Commission" will hold DC accountable if enough of us ask FTC to do so.

SEE: my link www.ilma.org/resources/ftc_dcc_letter.pdf



Think of the millions ($) DC will EXTORT from customers because they hold the power of warranty judgments to the standard of their brand of ATF +4. And... ... . it causes masive heat and fricition between the dealerships and paying customers.

ANY (1) ONE AT DCRYsler LISENING?



DShuart out of Wind Lake, WI, thanks man, for sharing the email form Thomas Smith, @ Valvoline. That Thom is a stand-up guy for putting it on the line that Valvoline MaxLife ATF will fill the CRYsler brand ATF +4 requirements. This guy reminds me of the integrity you can find at Cummins, UP FRONT AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. Valvoline now has my business. I will change ATF at 10K intervals (service truck) instead of 24K intervals. Economics 101. Give them choices and they will increase market share.



I'll say it again "if it didn't have a Cummins there wouldn't' be a RAM in my pin. Don't do well with da anamal dat bites da hand dat feeds em.

VOTE WITH THE DOLLAR!

thanks again.

mel.

 

[jhyatt]

i've been useing amsoil for 50. 000 miles my truck has 131. 000 works great and drops the heat stoped useing atf+4 cause for the same price i can get amsoil

 

[Mel Swanson]

Originally posted by jhyatt

i've been using amsoil for 50. 000 miles my truck has 131. 000 works great and drops the heat stopped using atf+4 cause for the same price i can get amsoil

Thats great if you can get AM soil for the same price as Valvoline MaxLive, ($2. 72 a quart). Most of us down here on the Colorado River/Mexico boarder state don't know how to get that price.

 

[Big-D]

MSwanson,



I'm with you... . if it weren't for the Cummins engine I wouldn't own a Dodge. Matter a fact, I can't see another one in my future.

Dave

 

[rblomquist]

Originally posted by MSwanson

Thats great if you can get AM soil for the same price as Valvoline MaxLive, ($2. 72 a quart). Most of us down here on the Colorado River/Mexico boarder state don't know how to get that price.

I think what he was saying was he could get amsoil for the same price or cheaper than DC ATF+4 and have the added benefit of synthetic.



For me, I'll pay the difference between +3 and/or maxlife and the synthetic if for no other reason than I live in a very hot climate.

 

[2ndgen2500]

i hate dealers in general, if my truck didnt have a cummins, id be driving a ford, i hate dodge, and this just gives me another reason to hate them, i am not sure what fluid i am "supposed to be running, but i did a trany flush, and i used a atf+4 equivelent from amsoil and havnet looked back since, after 3 more changes, still no metal and hardly any traunny wear at all, i run their fluids in everything and am very happy, and personally i dont wan tthis to become a "my fluid is better than yours grudge match. " just sharing my experiences and so far they have been pleasent, plus i pay 4$ a quart for full synthetic.

 

[Mel Swanson]

From the sound of the various responses it can be said, members are independent thinkers and handle problems accordingly. ('')

My side issue is price. My primary issue is the approach that DC has taken to stick it to the Dealers and Customers while ignoring trade laws. See my original post links.

I have heard that GM did the same thing with power steering fluid. ('')

Vote with your dollar. ('')



l

mel