Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) ATS 3 piece manifold

[SRehberg]

I know this subject has been beaten up a lot, but I am getting ready to install mine. I wondered if the hard lines mounted to the manifold for coolant have to be removed or just lifted up out of the way so there's clearance? I'm debating whether to have a shop do it, but the price kind of slows me down. It looks like if you take your time, it can be done without a lot of fanfare, but those are the projects that can turn into a nightmare. Thanks for any help.

 

[HeberRam]

Manifold install

The lines can just be moved out of the way. It is also better to remove the turbo, so you have better access to the bottom bolts. The hardest thing is to get it perfectly pieced together. You've got one chance to get it right (measure) exactly from each end to the center. you can use your existing manifold as a template and again double check your measurements and make sure you have a flat surface. Forget the rubber hammer, hit the sucker down on a rug over a concrete floor or piece of wood to get started. Carefully keep hitting down each end until you get the exact measurement. Don't forget to use "new" gaskets and get them from cummins as they are cheaper then the dealer. Good luck.



Steve

 

[JGK]

Put the ends in the freezer for a few hours and the middle section in the oven at about 200* for about a half hour before you're ready to assemble. When you're all ready to put them together, they do so quite easily. But you have to move fairly fast. They'll go together by hand - no beating. Just wear heavy leather gloves. Get the ends lined up and the mouting surfaces flat using your original manifold as a template, as Steve said, or some such (nails in a 2X4?). You're better off to have it slightly too long than too short. It's much easier to whack it with a mallet to shorten it then pull it apart after the temp equilizes and the slip joints get tight.



-Jay

 

[SRehberg]

The ideas sound great and I'll do just that. I will probably do the 2x4 thing with dowels or nails, as my manifold has shrunk, so it would make the holes a little to close. I just hate to pay the diesel place to do it ($175) when it sounds like it can be done. I picked up the gaskets from Cummins, they aren't real impressive looking, just some punched out beer cans it looks like! About $15 worth, do these sound like the right ones?

 

[HeberRam]

gaskets

If you got all six gaskets for $15. 00 you did good. Dealer wants $14-16 each!! OOCH. As jay said it's better to be long then short! Also use some anti-seize compound on the ends, this also helps... Also use on the bolts. I haven't tried the freezer trick yet and I've done a ton of these. FYI, I charge $150 for installs, which includes drill and tapping for the pyro. Take your time, don't rush and you will be "ok".



Steve

 

[SMorneau]

I put mine together with a hard plastic mallet and it worked great. I would recommend that you error on the side of being to lengthy. Its not really bad to test fit and I would not want to have to pull the ends back out of the center. I used my old manifold to get it close but it wasn't as close as I thought it would be.



The bolts were not that difficult on mine and they had been there for 245K miles. Use penetrating oil and be prepared to get creative with your wrench positions. There was one bolt I could get the wrench on but I had no room to turn it so I used a big screw driver as a lever on the end of the wrench.



The turbo pulled far enough away to easily work around it. If your leave the studs out of the ATS it will easily clear the turbo for test fitting. The studs came out of the manifold easily after I gave them a good rap on the end with a hammer and double-nutted them.

 

[illflem]

Good tips. Remember to retorque the bolts after a a few hundred miles when the engine is cool, they will be lose.

 

[SRehberg]

Thanks for all the tips, as it is much easier to do knowing the "tricks" especially from those that have done it before. I can see the biggest thing to watch out for is not to install the ends into the center to far, so I will definetly error on the side of long. The gaskets are pretty weak looking, but they are genuine Cummins, so I guess they are the correct ones to use!



Thanks again

 

[JGK]

Gaskets - yep, just stamped sheet metal.



$ - I am sooo thankful we can get engine parts from someplace other than the..... dealer.



Bolts - I assume they're still coming with allen-head bolts. The top ones on the center section, as I remember, are a pain because you can't get an allen-head socket on them - the manifold channels partially block access. So you either need a socket with a long-reach allen-key shaft (rare), or use a standard key with a cheater on the short end. You'll see what I mean. Perhaps Steve has found a better way.



-Jay

 

[SRehberg]

What did you use to tighten those center bolts and how can I torque them; just take them up tight and hope it's close? I haven't pulled the old manifold off yet, I want to make a doweled jig for length setup. I sure appreciate all the help!!!

 

[illflem]

Just try to torque them evenly by feel, it's about all you can do. I used a ball end type allen wrench that allows you to come in from angle with a cheater pipe on the short end. With this method you'll know they're too tight when the ball end breaks off.

Seriously with that big of a allen wrench the ball type are pretty strong. You'll probably have to buy a whole set to get the one you want though. Sure made it a heck of a lot easier.

 

[radixr]

I cut off a short piece of the allen wrench and used that and a box end wrench to tighten the middle bolts.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by radixr

I cut off a short piece of the allen wrench and used that and a box end wrench to tighten the middle bolts.

I did the same then used a crow's foot on my torque wrench. That and feel should be close enough torque wise.



Use antisieze on the threads. I used stainless cap screws to prevent rusting. Careful with those metal gaskets too. They can easily slip out of place while your lining everything up.

 

[SRehberg]

Thanks for the help, it will make it a lot easier knowing what you guys have done, otherwise the learning curve takes awhile. I'll do the anti-seize too... do you use it on the gaskets as well or just down dry?

 

[1dslram]

I had an emergency in the middle of adjusting my manifold and had to leave upon returning the manifold was all equal tempraature, and with the anti-sieze and the ball ends it was still easy to adjust and install. I didn't remove the turbo as there was enough room.

Bruce

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by SRehberg

Thanks for the help, it will make it a lot easier knowing what you guys have done, otherwise the learning curve takes awhile. I'll do the anti-seize too... do you use it on the gaskets as well or just down dry?

I did not use antisieze on the gaskets nor do I recall anyone ever mentioning it. I "dunno". Anyone else?

 

[1dslram]

That is a directly from the directions that come with the manifold.

Bruce

 

[illflem]

I don't think they mean the gaskets between the head and manifold but rather the area where the three pieces side together. That's what I did, no hassle at all adjusting for the proper length.

 

[1dslram]

The gaskets go in dry the antisieze goes on the bolts and on the ends of the center section of the manifold and as illflem said no problem adjusting for length.

Bruce