ATS vs. DTT Transmissions

[Oil Ape]

I'm looking at replacing my stock transmission and these are the two transmissions that seem to keep coming into the spotlight. I think the DTT has a few more users on this site but I don't want to do something just because everyone else is doing it.



I've contacted both DTT and ATS and both are more than willing to offer their own explainations as to why their transmissions are superior to the competition... Both are obviously excellent transmissions and I don't want this forum thread to be tainted by bias or turn into the ******* match other transmission threads have become.



As such, I would like to know what the people that are actually using these transmissions have to say. What are the Pro's and Con's of each and why I should consider one over the other. What are their opinions of their purchases and what if anything would they have done different.



I'm not looking for a sled pulling transmission but I hope eventually to be close to the 300hp and want a transmission that would hold up to not only daily driving but also to the occasional big trailer. I'm not a hot-rodder. Thank you for all your comments. Please keep this thread civil and informative not confrontational.

 

[phoekema]

transmission experience

You are absolutely right when you state that both DTT and ATS are excellent products. For that matter, so are Dunrite, Suncoast, BD etc. I would have to say that ATS and DTT are probably the top two contenders.

Don't let the number of customers affect your choice too much - remember ATS has not been around in the Dodge transmission market as long as DTT.

My own prefference was ATS for the following reasons: I want a converter with a strong lockup that can be used anytime, not just when under less of a load. Also, the ATS is rather unique in the fact it will deliver the increased lockup performance without pumping up the internal pressures in the transmission, as do all of the others as far as I know. Eventually turning up the pressures will likely take its toll. In the unlocked mode, I would guess that the two (ATS and DTT) are very similar (both F A R better than stock!).

Both companies have an excellent track record standing behind their products and both will be like diriving a new truck.

 

[Bob Wagner]

phokema, what line pressures are you running?



Thanks,

Bob

 

[phoekema]

pressures

Bob,

I don't have any way of knowing what the presures are at this point, as I have no gauges or anything. My transmission is stock other than the ATS converter and valve body. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the ATS valve body did run somewhat higher pressures than stock - but not nearly as high as some are doing in order to provide a more positive lockup. It is possible a code scanner would provide some info re: pressures. If I get one hooked up some time, I will check. Sorry I don't have more specific data.

Paul

 

[Extreme1]

Oil Ape,

You might want to consider a trans from Goered Brothers in St Lucas, IA. I've been real happy with mine.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Some transmission's cruise on the highway with pressures through the roof, not DTT... . that I do know



Jim

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Oil Ape

I don't want this forum thread to be tainted by bias or turn into the ******* match other transmission threads have become.

Oil Ape,

I am in the same kinda shoes as you as I do not know which to go with, but I am also concidering BD as a distantant choice as well. However transmission threads can not be civil on this board, it's just a fact of life. I will be watching this thread untill it gets carried away.



Andrew

 

[csutton7]

for what it's worth ATS is very new to the market--they may have something great and maybe they don't, but it's too early to tell--on the other hand DTT has been around longer and have proven themselves and like stated earlier there are others---you need to do your research and see whose transmission does what you need--good luck--chris

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Cool! We have no nasty stuff brewing in this thread... ... ... . yet. lol There is about to be a unbiased direct comparison between the trannies you are considering. The other thread I started has gone completely to the dark side.



When I say unbiased I mean exactly that. I am going to get as big of a group as I can to each do their own comparison between the two in the same truck- before and after the swap. The main reason for getting multiple comparisons is to ensure several unbiased reviews of each transmission. There are those who believe that I am incapable of doing such a thing because of personal differences between a certain employee at DTT and myself. I still am looking for people who want to compare the two in the Utah area. If anyone is interested they can call me at 801 556 8082. I will be letting people drive the truck saturday (assuming the elk damage is fixed by then) with the current DTT trans. I will schedule another date shortly after I get back from ATS for those people to drive it again. We will be towing, racing, just putting around, and do plenty of each on the highway and in all kinds of city driving. Any ideas are welcome.

Chris

 

[ATSDiesel]

In a general responce to 'csurron7' post... . about us being new to this market. .

That is slightly unjust... We are not out for glory ... so to say... We have been in the buisness for over 11 years, as a group... Clint on the other hand has been doing engine and trans work since he was 10 years old...

Yeah..... when you have it you have it... . He was born for this... Like it or not. .

To be able to 'truely' judge us on what and how we do things... You HAVE to visit our shop. It is as simple as that.

I am beginning to learn that some of the 'persons' who post are not directly in the ... so to say... buisness... on a day to day basis... .

We are.

So... to those who chose to 'judge' without first hand expertise...

... . " Welcome to the world of... ATS... ... "

We will amaze you... They amaze me ... every day... I-LOVE-THEM... .

Of Course... . I am there... everyday... and am bias.....



Ranee... Clint's... other half. .

 

[Joel Richards]

Amen!



(and I'm not bias - just a very satisfied customer)



Joel

 

[Blakers]

I am in the same kinda shoes as you as I do not know which to go with, but I am also concidering BD as a distantant choice as well. However transmission threads can not be civil on this board,

I too, am in the same situation... trying to decide which is the best route to go. If we keep this civil we can all learn from each other's experiences, rather than from our egos.



My stock transmission is in good condition, but the TC clutch is starting to slip under heavy acceleration. I think a new TC and valve body might just do the trick without a complete rebuild at this time.



Blake

 

[Oil Ape]

I do realize that there are more than just two transmissions on the block but from my understanding those are the big two. Any other suggestions for possibilities are also welcome. What I don't want to do is have a VB from one manufacturer with a torque converter from another and a full set of guts for the rest of the transmission from yet another. In other words, I want a transmission designed to run as a whole not a hodge-podged bailing wire job. That is my main reason for the comparison between these two.



I think it is fair to say that ATS has been around awhile. That is if they are the same company that was putting turbos on the older ford diesels in the 80's. Granted the new triple TQ is an interesting new developement but I suspect DTT has been adding or changing components in their lineup as well. As research and developement learns and grows with these engines I truely hope something is learned and new technology is added and hopefully we aren't locked into the old ideas thinking the old tried and trued is always best, however I think that is true with reguards to the 12v.



Now from my perspective it appears that there are two trains of thought with regard to diesel transmissions. Please correct me if I'm wrong. First, increase the fluid coupling which may result with higher trans temps under a load but somewhat protect the clutches by shear force. Second increasing the lockup surface which limits the ability to slip thus keeping the transmission temp down but at the same time maximising the transfer of power to the wheels.



Now there again it appears to me that the DTT is in the Fluid Coupling crowd whereas ATS is in the Lockup Surface crowd. It also seems that for towing where a moderate amount of protection is warranted DTT may be the better choice do to the fluid protection. If I was racing, however, from my understanding the ATS has better lockup so better power transfer.



I realise these are bold general statements and some of you use your trucks for one or the other, or sometimes both. What I am looking for in particular, is a towing truck, and not the boat to the lake on the weekend type, but the greater than 25,000 lbs occasional towing type, and have no interest in tearing up the dragstrip. Also this truck will be a high altitude truck so I don't want to necessarily stall it at a stop light. I just want to make sure and be able to utilize most of the power any of my mods will make.



Please tell me if I'm wrong in the philosophies of the Fluid Coupling vs. Lockup Surface, but if I'm not please tell me the advantages and disadvantages of both types of trannys. Thanks again for keeping it civil.

 

[illflem]

If I'm not mistaken ATS has the longest warranty in the industry. Good reason to go with them in my book.

 

[phoekema]

it's not the surface area

With reguard to the lockup clutch, it is really not the surface area that is the key issue. About all that does is lessen the wear factor, every thing else being equal. I posted this comparison before, but the triple lock concept is similar to the old New Departure bicycle hub with the disks for brakes. There were several disks with the odd ones splined to the hub and the even ones splined to the axle. When you pushed the pedal backwards, it put pressure on these disks and you stopped. Each disk had the same (or very close to it) pressure applied - the more disks, the more holding (in this case brakeing) force.



By just increasing the area, you just distribute the same pressure over a greater area and decrease the presure per sq. inch - this gives no more holding force, just less wear. It is exactly this fact that causes almost all other converter manufacturers to turn up the pressure in the transmission to obtain the desired holding power.



Paul

 

[csutton7]

CCannon--I meant only in reference to the DODGE Cummins Turbo diesel auto's nothing more--now maybe you've been doing them longer than you've been on the TDR--if you have I'm sorry--I believe that DTT has been doing them longer than you--if not I'm sorry---chris

 

[bigkavr]

Oil Ape,



I've gone through:

1. Lock-Right (sp) TC (low stall) with a modified valve body.

2. Lock-Right (sp) TC (low stall) with a BD valve body.

3. DTT 91 TC and DTT VB

4. DTT 91 racing, DTT VB and all new DTT insides.



Why so many changes?? That's easy. . I'm a picky *******. I beat the snot out of my truck and I expect it to perform as I want it to, not as a company says it should. . Be it towing, drag racing, traveling or just harrassing the kids in their rice-a-roni rockets, I

now have a transmission that's about 98% where I want it.

(remember the picky ******* above. . ) I still have to "tweek" the

shift points a little, but that's a minor point that just entails me getting off my a** and doing it. . : )

And before anyone asks, DTT doesn't endorse me, but they have

bent over backwards to make me happy. Even going as far as

all new pieces and parts at their expence. (# 4 above)

If ATS was around with transmissions when I started this endever, I may have gone with them, hard to tell. But I can tell you that DTT has always been honest with me (somtimes bruitality honest. . ) and I truly respect that.

AGAIN, I've got nothing against ATS, (hell, I've never even talked to them) I just try to stay with one vender to maintain

continuity. Best of luck with your search and I too look forward to the outcome. .

 

[Strick-9]

I'd just like to comment on something that was said earlier regarding temperatures in fluid coupling.



A tighter converter runs cooler while cruising than a stock converter.



But it runs hotter at an idle.



Difficult to grasp maybe, but true.



I don't use lockup anymore because my PCM is trying to control the stock engine/transmission with a stock RPM range and my current motor is FAR from stock. It locks up WAY too early and lugs the motor.



I have a manual lockup switch that I could engage if I want to, but I'm too lazy. Empty, I've never needed to activate lockup to reduce temperatures. With my stock converter it would overheat quickly. I pull trailers (construction supplies and equipment) and rarely need or use lockup to maintain temperature.



I'm currently running a DTT 89%.



-Chris

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Well said Chris. All of you that think I am just FOS in regard to my city driving temps, go read the above post again.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

I had a complete DTT upgrade installed about three months ago. I did have a minor hunting problem with light throttle. Fred Swanson was super helpful and got everything perfect. I now am running alot more HP than ever expected. I run this truck hard, very hard. I will run WOT to pass Semi trucks on two lane hwy's on level 5x5. It only has gotten up to 180* while hauling. I sometimes tow up to 12,000 lbs of horses and trailer. Even more weight with the hay trailer. This transmission simply rocks... I am sure ATS is a great bunch of guys. Probably a little more agreeable than Bill is. But the bottem line with my situation was Bill knew what was going to be best for me. I did not..... I am very happy with the service I recieved. Another thing to keep in mind is that I own my stator and VB now. If, say in 100k miles I need a rebuild, I only have to pay for clutches, labor seals and that kind of stuff. I will stick with Bill and DTT for the lifetime of my truck.



Don't forget that there is only a handfull of the new ATS Triple Lock TC's out there and there are litterally thousands of DTT trannys that have well over 100k on them. That speaks for alot with me. If I spent 4k on an ATS transmission I would be telling you how *****in it was too... ... ... ... ... ... .....