ATS vs. DTT Transmissions

[Heetseeker_1]

slip is not good

Hey Blakers,



My mildly powered truck smoked my TC in about 24k miles that I have owned it. It did slip some in 4lock when I jumped on it and one can only guess when I wasn't aware of it. I just made the trip to DTT in BC and not only my TC was roasted but my output shaft and related components were on the way out as well.



I went with the 91%, smart controller, master kit and an exaust brake. I drove to Seattle, stayed the night and then drove straight through to the Sacramento area the next day. No slip now and I'm pretty happy about that to say the least.



I came away from DTT feeling good about the bucks I had spent. Despite that, I know that they will bend over backwards to help me with new transmission and controller when it's time to start adjusting shift points if I want to do that later. Interesting to note, I basically dropped the truck off and picked it up 5 days later on a Saturday which didn't give them much time to get me aquainted with their work ethics or build on a trusting relationship. Even after that situation, I still feel happy with the money I put down and I know they will take care of me. They 'radiate' customer service when you talk to them.



I'm not saying DTT is the best thing out there or any product pumping statement like that, but this transmission rocks! It's an improvement not unlike when I put in the #6 plate. Big improvement in performance, the towing will be soon to come-with confidence now.



Get that slip taken care of before it costs you more money than necessary.



Any by the way, get the cryo shaft - you'll regret it if you don't.



Steve.

 

[Pit Bull]

Heres my deal. No towing and no racing. Just want to add 50-80 hp (maybe an EZ). I want dependable and durable. Trucks a daily driver (90% of the time I will drive like the old guy I am, but I want to have the power to pass on the 2 lane roads when needed). What mods would you recommend to the transmission and what do you est. the costs will be with labor included. I will go with either ATS or DTT because of the comments about these two companies, sounds like they are both fine companies.

 

[Oil Ape]

I hate mentioning prices but ATS quoted "me" on the full rebuild in their shop to be at just over $3600. DTT on the other hand recommended a local shop that they work with. That particular shop said that they would rebuild the transmission on site with all the goodies for about $2600. If you buy the DTT transmission as an exchange I think its about $3200. The main difference is the cost of the Torque Converter on the ATS.



I'm new to this forum, but I still know both ATS and DTT owners/staff watch this forum and are probably monitoring this particular thread fairly closely. I think it would be fair to say that these are rough numbers and may vary on your own needs and particular locations. As such, give them a call... You can get some rough price sheets off of there individual websites.



I hope I haven't offended or mispriced either company and please feel free to enter this forum to correct any mistakes. I know both companies are very professional and due to the potential volatility and personal nature of this particular topic that they often take the high road and stay out of the discussions almost completely.



I know I don't have to worry about the professionals from either company but I would like to remind the remainder of the participants to keep it civil. Thank you all for the great info...

 

[Cummins Corvette]

I appologize to everyone... ... ... ... . and say good bye. I'm just one of those people who can't communicate very well and now I've gone and made everyone mad. It has been a pleasure to be among you all. Good bye my friends.

Chris

 

[cmonroe]

Just a little clarification. ATS is by no means new, nor are there only a handfull of thier tc's on the road. They build a completed line of custom convertors for almost every application that you could imagine. From heavy duty towing applications to the wildest race applications. Ford, Dodge and Chevy, this is still just a glimps of what they are. These people are driven to build the highest quality products that can be produced with current technoligies. Sometimes throwing out the old school way of thinking and going back to the drawing board is the only way to get to the next level. They treat each customer that comes threw their door as an individual. All of our needs are different, the customer explaines their needs to one of the crew at ATS and then the customer is educated about the process of how the system works. Then allowed to choose from several options. So each customer is educated to how their application works, thus can make the correct choices involved in their application.



Transmissions are not even the whole picture. I will be posting more in the future and giving you all the testing data on several other products that I have been testing for ATS.

 

[rrausch]

ATS has been building Diesel Transmissions for about 8 years. They've been building transmissions under the ATS business name for about 10 years. Before that Don was a Caterpillar mechanic for a decade or so, and Clint was a re-builder at another trans shop. To imply they are new to the Diesel Trans field is just inaccurate or not being straight. ATS has built thousands of diesel transmissions, from Powerstrokes, to Dodges, to Allisons. Their parking lot had 15 Dodge/Cummins trucks in it when I was there, in April. Also a few Powerstrokes and one Big-Rig. These guys have the Experience, the Guts AND the Vision. And also the Shop.



They ARE new to the TDR, coming on board (I believe) last Dec. or so. This is why there are not yet a lot of TDR members running the ATS TripleLok. There will be! The ATS-TLTC is one damm sophisticated piece of H. P. Diesel Tech.

Also ATS was & is the biggest builder of Torque Converters in the Col. area, and they build a lot of High H. P. Torque Converters for gasser drag racers.

These guys are hard-working, dedicated and truthful.



The stock Dodge/Cummins clutch (made of cellulose I believe) starts to slip, and as it heats up from friction it begins to degrade and those little bits of clutch material then break/melt off the clutch and circulate through the trans causing shudder &... FAILURE! Oh no!!!!

In comparison, the ATS clutches (Three of them) are made from a high-tech composite made by Raybestos; it is a Kevlar/Carbon/Cellulose material and it won't burn, scorch, melt, rip, crumble or slip... I don't care if you are running twins or drugs or towing over the limit or all of the above. Get used to it.



I couldn't believe the changes in my truck; I couldn't believe the seat-of-the-pants difference in non-lockup acceleration. This is because of the ATS stator. My truck GOES now in non-lockup instead of just roaring loudly, and it is because of the stator & fluid coupling that it runs so strongly off the line. ATS also has re-engineered many other parts of the Dodge 47RH-47RE. For instance they use a forged converter hub, a stronger band strut, a cyroed input shaft, extra clutches in both clutch sets, etc. etc.

Also their VB lubes in Park, (Stock doesn't) AND allows locked shifting either up throughthe gears or down, (It's there if you want it). And they guarantee it for 65,000 Miles/ 3 years.



Over the years, these guys have taken their own trucks, jacked the power up to insane levels and then tried to tear the transmissions out of them. Don estimates he took out 20 automatics while he owned 2 D/C's. Clint says he took out 25. (Clint owns a Dodge & a Powerstroke) After they broke one they would pull it and strengthen whatever broke. This kind of engineering is very time/money consuming, but VERY thorough.



Yup, I paid about $3,600 for my ATS Stage-IV, I drove a couple of thousand miles to Wheat Ridge for the install, and I'd do it again in a heart-beat!

This trans MAKES the truck.

 

[SlyBones]

Real nice flag waving there. But for those trying to compare the differences DTT basically does these things as well. DTT has over 20 years transmission building experience, has cyro'd shafts, fancy hubs, upgraded clutches, band stuts, etc. etc.



Yes there are subtle differences in how these two companies setup their systems. So yes you can nit pick some areas. At the high level both offer complete systems that include TC's, VB's, upgrades and controllers all designed to work together as a complete system.



Seems to me the main differences are one company as the strongest lockup and the other has the best fluid coupling. However that does not mean that either are weak in the other area. DTT has trucks running over 780+ HP with their transmission and there are plenty that have stated in here that ATS fluid coupling works just fine.



My point here was not to pick a side or flame anyone. Just my observation. If it was me I would look at the two systems, figure out how the systems work, and choose the system that matches my needs. Choosing between these two because people sit here and argue over line pressure ( for example ) is stupid IMO.



If I choose ATS I would go with the complete system with the lockup controller. As that appears to be their strength. If I was not going to get the controller, and only had lockup when the stock PCM gave me lockup, I would choose DTT for the better fluid coupling. -- Now this is how I personally would decide. You make your own priorities and needs. Dont use mine. Like many have stated in here, some want locked to locked shifts, other do not. Some place higher priority on racing, and others towing. bla bla bla... .



OK my little flag waving, I have DTT and will stick with them. They have taken very good care of my truck, and I will continue to let them do so.

 

[Koa Man]

Hard choices

Both tranmissions appear to be very very good, according to the reports by those who use them. Trying to choose between the two is like winning your choice of either a BMW M5 or a M-B E55. Both cars are real close is performance, with the Bimmer a little faster, but the M-B a little more comfort. I think almost everyone would be happy with either one. I will find out shortly how well a full meal ATS performs. Ranee of ATS called me this afternoon and told me my trans just left the shop to be air freighted to Hawaii and I should have it by early Thursday if not sooner. I'll let you know how it performs after I drive and tow with it for a few days.

 

[Blakers]

A question just came to mind...



Consider if you have a transmission failure on the road somewhere away from home that is not related to a torque converter or valve body. Could a good transmission shop that is not afiliated with DTT or ATS or Goerend be able to make repairs? Would one be more or less difficult to repair by that shop because of proprietory parts or processes within the transmission that are not the "normal" for a stock transmission?



Since there are not DTT, ATS, or Goerend shops everywhere, isn't it important to be able to have it repaired in an emergency?



Just some thoughts.



Blake

 

[Koa Man]

When ATS was having a problem finding a 47RH core for my '96 2 whl drive, they were going to just send me all the parts to have them installed locally. Clint told me any competent trans shop should be able to do the work. I don't think having any of the above mentioned parts would be a problem for most shops. They could just give DTT, ATS or Goerend a call and those guys could talk them through whatever needed to be done.

 

[rrausch]

I know the ATS could be repaired anywhere. It is a simple, rugged system and any shop can put it in, so any shop could repair the trans if needed. One of the reasons I went with the ATS is because it WAS so un-complicated and strong. It doesn't rely on high pressure nor does it create much heat. Fluid Temp of even 20 degrees above normal is a transmission killer in the long run.

 

[Blakers]

From what I have deduced, it looks like ATS or Goerend are a lot less exotic internally and therefore could be rebuilt by any transmission shop. Whereas DTT runs the high line pressure. I'm not sure what all exotic stuff is in their's, but perhaps a run of the mill transmission shop would have trouble working on them?



Blake

 

[azgearpro]

There are no exotic parts added in the DTT setup. They do however greatly improve the life of the transmission by adding better clutches, and a billet 3rd gear holding piston that is tons stronger. This helps the transmission last longer, because of the stronger holding force. These clutches help to prevent slippage for towing and high HP trucks.

I have had my DTT transmission in for over a year now, I am right at 400HP and I pull a 13k fifth wheel all the time. Pulling 6-7% grades here in AZ I have never had a problem with transmission Temps, and believe me it gets very hot here. I hope this has helped with any questions you have.

Jim

 

[Bob Wagner]

most certified shops can do repairs <b>if needed</b>

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Just to clarify,





Bill is a transmission builder by trade and belongs to different transmission associations. He is a well respected memeber of the ATRA (automatic transmission rebuilders association) allowing a nation wide warranty for his transmission customers.



If a situation arises where replacement parts are required they are taken care of,not shipped to us for inspection ect, just shipped to whoever needs them and the details gets sorted out afterwards. Any transmission shop has instances where things break, how you deal with the warranty and the customer is the ultimate factor.



I am not sure how to explain the relationship my dad has with his customers he trusts them , if they screw something up i cant explain it, they call hijm up and they tell him they did something wrong, he treats them like familiy. If a family member is in trouble you deal with it that is how he runs his business.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay



Bill is a transmission builder by trade and belongs to different transmission associations. He is a well respected memeber of the ATRA (automatic transmission rebuilders association) allowing a nation wide warranty for his transmission customers.

Just to clearify I now have a stock transmission and have never talked to anyone from ATS or DTT. One day around 4 months ago I was having lunch in Springfield Missouri and I happened to talk to a guy who is a Transmission consultant. I mentioned that I had a automatic Dodge CTD and that I had heard that a company out of Canada by the name of DTT, owned by a guy named Bill Kondolay could make the Dodge CTD auto's almost bullet proof. Well this guy talked for about 20 minutes about how well respected Bill Kondolay is and that if anybody could make one bullet proof it was Bill. I was kinda shocked. The transmission world must be a small world for a transmission consultant out of Springfield Missouri to know about Bill Kondolay in Canada.

 

[illflem]

Both trannies are great. Call me a patriot or whatever but I prefer to buy American. Canada is a heck of a lot better than Japan or Taiwan, but it still isn't American.

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Most of the guys we deal with dont much care is my dad is a martian with 2 heads, his job is to make these trannies live as long as possible . but for those of you that are interested, my dad is the builder, product designer ect, his partner is American and the shipper receiver, and we ship from his American Warehouse in Ferndale Washington.



Well i am off to Muncie till Monday, have a nice weekend you guys.



Stefan

 

[Bob Wagner]

Originally posted by illflem

Both trannies are great. Call me a patriot or whatever but I prefer to buy American. Canada is a heck of a lot better than Japan or Taiwan, but it still isn't American.

I love Montana, That that kind of BS statement is BS



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[LSMITH]

Canadians are another race? Wow, I thought they just had an accent.