Atten: Union Steel Workers who Vote Dem.

[Sled Puller]

You may want to check into Clinton loaning the
CHINESE money to build steel mills.
Did you know we only have 150,000
steel workers left?? And, that 9 mills went broke this year due to Clinton
letting imports come in under cost?

What a friend to Labor!
Gene

[This message has been edited by MGM (edited 01-07-2001). ]

 

[Archive]

MGM... you need to look at the big picture here. Yes, we lose mills and workers, but the union officers get richer. Simple mathematics.

Of course, we all know union officers would not sell out their members, nor would the democrats, cause they are all for the "working man".

NAFTA comes to mind here, also.

 

[Champane Flight]

There aren't that many Union steel workers left in America. We can thank Regan for getting the ball rolling back when he busted the air traffic controllers. Watched one battle after another lost by the Unions.

Maybe we can all live on minimum wages and do without healthcare. Is that what everybody wants?I used to be a Union worker,the company I work for made it so miserable for us we dropped out. The Union could not do a thing,mostly because the company was walking a line and would not step over. Our workers contract was picked apart by the company and the young workers would not fight for it!A Union is only as strong as its members. Union presidents can be voted out if they are not doing there job.
We as a work force are back doing the same thing we did before the Union,just because of apathy and Anti-union propaganda spread by the company and the press.
When we start losing our worker rights maybe we will remember who got them for us,Thats right the unions!

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95 Dodge 2500 Luverne grill guard,headache rack,running boards and Amzoiled. Soon to be mildly bombed. 84 Dodge d-150, 318 Hooker headers,Edelbrok intake,mallory ignition,Carter Afb,Accel coil,and Custom dual exhaust. Boat,fifthwheel,motorcycles,and shop,job to support toys. Yuck...

 

[Sled Puller]

Rob,
Could you enlighten us once again on what REALLY happened to the air traffic Controllers?
Union member here also, who is sick of the Union bosses selling out to the biggest enemy Labor and Freedom has ever seen, the "NEW" Democratic party. Better known as Socialism.

Time to open the eyes and see what is happening, and what we have let happen the last 8 years.
Gene

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1997 Cummins Dodge 4x4 Bombed & Amsoiled. Amsoil Premiere Direct Jobber, Member of: NRA Business Alliance, GLTDR, WANTED: Wrecked Dodges.
www.awdist.com

 

[Steve M]

For crying out loud Gene! Bush is in. In four years everything will be perfect. There will be no poverty or unempoyment. He will undo NAFTA that his father (not Clinton) created. He will solve the fuel cost crisis. He will end abortions. You really can legislate morality! We will all become law abiding citizens with our revolvers on our sides. And most of all, there will be no need for unification of the workforce because white collar America is honest and generous. You never see management screwing off in the lounge while on the clock. Oh noooo no no no. Only blue collar union members are greedy and lazy. Of course you wouldn't be selective and biased in your criticism would you? Let's wait and see what Bush does for the steel workers. #ad

(edit) One more thought. Cummins is building or already has completed an engine manufacturing facility in China. This is a decision by Cummins management. Not Clinton or the union. Hmmm, what should we do now?

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98 2500 CC SB 4X2 12v 5spd 4. 10, -silencer, AFC+20, Edelbrock IAS, VDO gauges, Reese 15k Classic
97 Dodge Stratus 150HP
92 Harley Fatboy, Dynojet fuel management, Supertrapp 2-1
00 Jayco 25' 5th wheel, single slide

[This message has been edited by Steve McDaniel (edited 01-07-2001). ]

 

[Champane Flight]

Rob it sounds like you crossed. Feeling a little scaby?If anything is illeagal it is a president breaking the countrys own laws(for big buisness)to force a working unit to fall. I have seen 1100 striking steel workers pickets crossed by out of towners and Pinkerton men. Who in my opinion should not be allowed to even join the human race. Can you say NO honor!These people crossing the lines have no idea whats going on they are just looking at the bottom line. If you were making 4. 50 an hour in a conveinence store don't you think 14. 50per looks good?They don't look at the sell out,they are telling the comunity,the strikers,and their children"we don't care". And they also give other companys the idea of "they did it we can to". Don't give me the familys to support line. They are telling there familys they have no honor and are selling out there own childrens future.

Yes I was their too and Regans trickle down economy trickled down my bu!! too. And we can expect some more now with Bush coming from a"right to work" state. It is not a right to work it is a"right to not have a organized work force". It takes some socialists to keep the capitialists honest. If you would read a little bit on the subject,instead of listening to Rush Limbuegh all day you would realize this.

You now somthing?I really thought the Republican/conservatives would quit whinning since one of their own got elected. It just does not seem to stop!All I hear is "whine Clinton did this" or "whine Hillary did that". If your waiting for everyone to take up whining you will be waiting a long time.

I will never cross a picket line!I have and will continue to support organized labor. I have and will take a job for minimum wage before I cross. Let all the no honor scabs go to he11. You can call me a comunist,socialist,and even a liberal if you want,at least I have a little honor!!!!!!

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95 Dodge 2500 Luverne grill guard,headache rack,running boards and Amzoiled. Soon to be mildly bombed. 84 Dodge d-150, 318 Hooker headers,Edelbrok intake,mallory ignition,Carter Afb,Accel coil,and Custom dual exhaust. Boat,fifthwheel,motorcycles,and shop,job to support toys. Yuck...

 

[Sled Puller]

I have never crossed a picket line and don't plan to.
I also will not stop letting people know what kind of anti-American they put in office the last 8 years.

The reason Clinton keeps coming up is his Executive Orders that are taking effect right now that will be affecting us.
I'M supposed to back off, because Bush won. Strange the Democrats have not. They have threatened to filibuster everything that Bush puts up unless they get their way. They want Co-Control of the Senate. Looks like the Republicans are caving already.
I'm in for the long haul boys! I'm not going back to sleep and let them do it to us worse next time!
I hope Bush does nothing for/or against steel workers. But I should/would question his intentions if he loans the Chinese MY MONEY to build Steel Mills and let them sell it under cost to kill OUR mills! And then say he is a friend to Big Labor! WAKE UP!

Do your homework on Clinton and China before you pass judgement.
Review the trade laws.

Quote from CF
"You can call me a comunist,socialist,and even a liberal if you want,at least I have a little honor!!!!!!" end quote. #ad


I hope you do not consider yourself one of these!?
And I like how he makes the Liberal WORSE than the other two!
They are all three the same.

As long as there is an "other" forum, I will be talking Politics. If you guys can't read them with an open mind, I suggest you don't click on them.
Gene

 

[Shrimpy]

I to was in a Union in Texas no less. We never struck but I was prepared to walk if we had to. Would I cross?? It depends. Would it make me less honerable if I did?? Only in the eyes of a person who is constantly looking for someone else to blame for lifes troubles in my opinion. And I would not loose on milli-second of sleep over worrying if someone felt I had no honor. Honor is like respect, it is not given out to every one it is earned!!!!

Strange as it sounds I do support Unions and will continue to do so. But when someone at the headquarters decides that we should strike it better be for a hell of a good reason. If the union didn't constantly support some of the low lifes in society they would be looked upon in a much better light. I worked with folks that worked harder at screwing off than actually working. The white collar boys are just as guilty of screwing off on the clock to. Their time will come because in todays workforce, the screw-ups will be ferreted out like cockroaches in the kitchen when the lights come on. That is unless they own the company. Then they can screw off as much as they want because in time (very short in most cases) the business will be dead.

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92 Ext. Cab, Auto trans. , 3. 54 Non-LS, Isspro Tach, 16 cm housing, no name 3 Gauge cluster, 220,000+ miles, straight pipe, old and abused but still running strong!!!!

 

[Champane Flight]

Yes I agree with the fact that allot of worthless employees have been backed by the unions. We had them in my unit too. And the company in all its wisdom made good work of them by telling us everyday thier screwups and how good we were and how we should dump the union. Been there done that. I have been on the receiving end of company retaliation for filing a greivence as a steward. It sucks. I call this today a attitude adjustment. When all it really is is unfair labor practices. At this time I have a really good boss and choose to lay low and finnish the next four years with no interference or job place politics. Then I can leave to my new second career and not look back. I fought for awhile,10 years. And all I got was grief.
Maybe you don't understand,the USAs labor laws are wound in bureatic tape so tight that to actually acheive justice for any labor violation would take years and then many more in appeals. That is not right... .

Lets see where to start. I guess to keep it simple would be nice. I do not lean left or right. I believe the truth lies in the middle of the road. If you take a look at any argumemnt there are two sides. If you are talking about the free trade agreement Gene. I believe it was first passed by both house and congress. We have been importing steel since way back in the Nixon era. Ford made it real popular in the early 70s. If the trade agreement gave any moneys to the Chinese they are the ones distributing it to whatever cause they want. We also were importing steel products from Poland and Baltic block countrys in the 70s. The last gun control laws I have seen are the Brady bill(R). In our state our new gov (R)just proposed and got passed a new gun show law.
I think Calif is coming down with something on assault weapons. Do not know the party associated with that.

As far as honor goes. I will honor a picket because I believe they will honor mine!When we give up these princibles we give up our basic belief in our fellow man. In my eyes when you cross a picket you are stealing!I come from a family that has roots to the Ludlow massacre.

The company that I work for has been good to me. It has also has some middle managment with some giant egos that are fed with the tears and sweat of the workers. These are the @$$holes I have a problem with.

I fought for my rights and others rights for free speech and all may post whatever they want. But in the same light SO MAY I. So don't get too bent when I chalenge the whine.


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95 Dodge 2500 Luverne grill guard,headache rack,running boards and Amzoiled. Soon to be mildly bombed. 84 Dodge d-150, 318 Hooker headers,Edelbrok intake,mallory ignition,Carter Afb,Accel coil,and Custom dual exhaust. Boat,fifthwheel,motorcycles,and shop,job to support toys. Yuck...

 

[Steve M]

Shrimpy, You sound like the level headed kind of guy unions need more of. Unions need to have a few pit bulls in the ranks but we also need a membership of level headed hard working career minded people. I couldn't agree with you more. Unions are for collective bargaining. Not for collective whining, bullying, or busting the company we work for. Unfortunately, we're slowly losing what our fathers fought for in years past. When it gets bad enough again, American workers will wake up and unite once again.

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98 2500 CC SB 4X2 12v 5spd 4. 10, -silencer, AFC+20, Edelbrock IAS, VDO gauges, Reese 15k Classic
97 Dodge Stratus 150HP
92 Harley Fatboy, Dynojet fuel management, Supertrapp 2-1
00 Jayco 25' 5th wheel, single slide

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by Steve McDaniel:
Unfortunately, we're slowly losing what our fathers fought for in years past. When it gets bad enough again, American workers will wake up and unite once again.

100% correct!
YES! We agree! I think this applys to the Country as a whole, not just labor.

We have to watch ALL politicians, but right now, The Republicans are the best ride in town as a whole.
One of my biggest gripes with my Union, is they Vote democrat no matter what the guy has done. I feel it is in the best interests of everyone for the Unions to work with whoever is in power, insted of drawing the line so tight.
If it comes down to it, I WOULD sacrifice my job to save the Constitution.
Gene

 

[Archive]

Steve McD... I agree with your statements.

MGM... I agree with your statements.

CF... I don't feel the least bit scabby, cause I was following the LAW. Obviously, you do not understand it is against federal law to strike against the government. I might add that my scabby a$$ appears to be able to spell better than yours!

Bush started up NAFTA? Never heard that whopper before(oh, I know, it was in your union newsletter!)... but even if he did, Clinton was the one that signed it(maybe Clinton is a closet republican). Clinton also gave China a favored nation trade status. Pull your head out of the depths of the union intestines, and think about it.

I did cross the lines... call me a scab. Heck, I will call myself a scab! 11,500 people went on strike. Call them criminals. Maybe instead of firing them all, he should have prosecuted them, too.

Worst part of it all is that their families paid for their ignorance.

 

[Shrimpy]

Steve, Thanks for the compliment. I, and most others I know, approach our jobs for what they are, monetary exchange for service rendered. I am not the boss, but I respect the person who is. We may never agree on anything, but for our company and thus ourselves as workers to succeed, we must get along in a productive way. I would guess that 98% of the folks I have worked under were level headed and fair 99% of the time. A person can not satisify everyone 100% of the time, myself included. And those times we did not agree, as long as nothing illegal was happening I went along.

You see to me the traditional mode of "work" has changed drastically over the last 10-15 yrs. We are in an age now where major screw ups (not people but business model wise) are not tolerated. The smart and effective manager will seek out many different ways of skinning the provberial (sp) cat. They will understand that they cannot do it alone. We Americans are the most productive economy in the world hands down. We can produce/service more with one person than our neariest competitor by almost 2. 5 to 1. The rub for me comes when it is time to divey up the bouty. Most situations seem to overly reward the white collar types. I have never figured out how, in a corporate setting, the pay disparity can become so lopsided. Don't get me wrong, someone has to be at the top and someone at the bottom. But this is where unions come in for me. I fully support their position of getting just compensation for all involved. I liken them to the little guy who pops up on your shoulder whispering in your ear. Not necessarily good or evil, just someone there to remind you that others are watching.

I work for a major oil (clue "Pectan"). They are just now, in most areas, begining to see that undue labor strife causes more problems than it cures. If you keep the workers happy, everything else seems to fall into place. Currently I am in a position that is not represented, but because of the pay issue alone, will probably change shortly.

Like MGM stated, it is the extreme hard line by both Union and Managment that troubles me. Before everyone gets all bent about the other, some face to face talks will do wonders.

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92 Ext. Cab, Auto trans. , 3. 54 Non-LS, Isspro Tach, 16 cm housing, no name 3 Gauge cluster, 220,000+ miles, straight pipe, old and abused but still running strong!!!!

 

[Champane Flight]

Whoa,I did misspell a couple of words. I am so sorry you are trying to justify your crossing the picketline Rob. It does not mean a **** if you are striking against the govt or a corp,a strike and a picket are the same.
If it is against the law,whos law?The ones you are strike against?Thats right,does that make it alright to cross?I don't think so. Regan pulled that out so he could keep the big airlines in buisness. Just because you are working for the govt does not mean you cannot organize a workforce or strike. You having a rough time at the mirror?

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95 Dodge 2500 Luverne grill guard,headache rack,running boards and Amzoiled. Soon to be mildly bombed. 84 Dodge d-150, 318 Hooker headers,Edelbrok intake,mallory ignition,Carter Afb,Accel coil,and Custom dual exhaust. Boat,fifthwheel,motorcycles,and shop,job to support toys. Yuck...

 

['956Wheel]

Union member here too... . yeah, go out on strike boys so we (the union) get a ****en raise! We did it in '93. If you asked your union brothers what the issues were they did not match what OUR union was fighting for. Bottom line: they get the mine you get the shaft. Don't get me wrong, you need "fat cats" to keep your managers in line. Read about Henry Ford! #ad


On the Reagan years, funny how a former union man FORGOT what it was like on the other side! How were the 80's for you guys $ wise... really I would like to hear.

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9535hundred

 

[Archive]

Ok, here goes!

I WAS there. This is not media BS, or secondhand stories, or union propaganda. And bear in mind, for losing 11,500 controllers, sure were a lot of applicants to take their jobs! Musta not been that bad.

The controllers were way overstaffed. We had 17000 at the time of the strike. There were some days, and almost always on the weekends, where some controllers stayed in the cafeteria ALL day playing cards and watching TV, never even entering the controlroom. Ronald Reagan, thru Drew Lewis, then sec. of dept of Trans. , offered the controllers many good things in the contract. Such as a 36hr work week, the ability to negotiate their own wages(unheard of in the government!), and a significant wage increase, better equipment, etc.
Problem was that the controllers were too focused on their request for a $10,000 per year wage increase for each one of them! They would not even consider the proposed contract. I voted for it, and wanted it to pass, looking at the future. The union was trying to live for the day, and turned it down in hopes of "making the skies grow silent".
Professionals? I think not.
Keep in mind that striking against the government is ILLEGAL! We all signed a paper on this and took a verbal oath. Prior to the strike, we were all required to review this information. Would you like to have your armed services go on strike? We took the same oath as I did in the service. Also, the alleged unionbuster gave the controllers an extra few days to get back to work. I would not have. Maybe he should have sent his limo around to pick them up, too. I doubt if it would have changed the dollar signs in their eyes. On the picket lines, they looked more like bums than they did "professionals". Check out the news archives and see for yourself. The pilots unions did not support them. The others did not, either.
The FAA lost 11,500 controllers. It was a sad day for everyone. I think of those days often, and the friends I lost forever. It was a sad day, but Reagan had no choice. It was the law, and still is.
I am not against unions, but I am against a union or anyone else telling me how to vote or how to run my life. Unions are a good thing, but even better if you are a lazy slug.
I will attempt to answer any other questions posted here.

 

[Sled Puller]

Tell me ONE THING GOOD THAT THE CLINTON REGIME HAS DONE FOR THE UNION WORKING MAN.

I can!
They have taxed the dog poop out of me, and Gore wanted MORE taxes!
They have done everything they could to destroy our Constitution.
There is two of the most important issues to me.
Gene

 

['956Wheel]

Oh come on MGM, Clinton was a better actor than Reagan any day! #ad
He kept that stupid a$$ smile on his face for eight years straight! #ad


The problem is the bleeding heart cry babies are so easily fooled by morons who have no regard for our country and its heritage. Gun control is an excellent example of this, add media hype and you have all the I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER needed to fool an allready lazy public. My opinion and you are intitled to it!

Lets face it, most people work there butt off and go home to watch the "news" and believe it! So sad but true. One would be better off watching cartoons... at least they could remain free thinkers.

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9535hundred

 

[Archive]

CP... every time you post, it shows your ignorance and lack of knowledge... oh, I see, you are just a puppet for your union. You don't need to know anything, your union will tell ya! And of course, we all know that the union never lies, just management. I have a big surprise for you: THEY BOTH DO!

By the way, a picket that is informational is crossed all the time. (those are not illegal in the government)
Mirror? I don't have any problems with that at all. I shave every day, and no problems here! In fact, I usually think of the people that are so easily led around. You may be a good candidate for one of these church groups that commit mass suicide! "Ripe for the pickins". Sounds to me like maybe you are the one with the problem... something happen in your past... maybe a union action that you unwittingly supported? Hurt your family? Or you? You sound like a very bitter person.

Before any air traffic controller was hired, we ALL had to take the oath and sign papers that said we would NOT strike against the government. It is the law. It is also not a closed shop. If you think differently, you are way under-informed!
I helped to form the latest union we have. (NATCA). I was a member, then an associate member for a few years. A balance of union/management is a good thing. I am now in charge of labor/management relations for about 50 people, from the management side. I enjoy all of these employees.

I do not blindly follow anyone. Sounds to me like your union may want to pass out some seeing-eye dogs at the next meeting.

Bottom line: What the controllers did in 1981 was illegal. They knew it. All of the other unions knew it. None supported them. The union (PATCO) was trying to hold the government hostage, for their own greed... a 10,000 dollar per year wage increase.
Did you, or anyone else out there, get a 10,000 dollar a year raise in 1981? I bet not. And how would you like your taxes to go up for controllers to get this raise? That would be an increase of 170,000,000 dollars per year of the FAA budget, which does not include other things... retirement contributions, etc. And that was just for the controllers portion of the workforce... and this did not count the 36hr work week.

All of this extra pay, and they were sitting on their butts watching tv and playing cards. Support your unions? Sometimes. But do it with an open mind, and don't follow anyone blindly.

CP... also, if you don't want to post here, could you email me of the Ludlow incident? I would like to hear more about that.

There is a big difference in a union trying to help members with safety issues, benefits, and etc, and a union trying to hold the whole nation hostage.

[This message has been edited by Rob Hanson (edited 01-08-2001). ]

[This message has been edited by Rob Hanson (edited 01-08-2001). ]

 

[Steve M]

Rob,
I sure wish you wouldn't jump to conclusions. George Bush senior started NAFTA and Clinton signed it. I followed it while it was happening. And just as I thought, it hasn't reduced the cost of anything. It has increased the profit of alot of goods but the savings haven't been passed on to the consumer. That was the obvious lie to the American people in order to make it attractive. It had nothing to do with the unions or union newsletter. Our union newsletter is mostly about elevators and member interests. Not a peep about the election before or after at the hall. Our interests are elevator related. Jumping to the conclusion that my every thought is directed from the union hall is false.
I liked GB senior with the exception of a few things. NAFTA being one of them. I hope W undoes alot of Clinton's damage and doesn't do more damage in other areas. I have a wait and see attitude about it. I will support him as our president. I simply hope he'll respect our right to organized labor as much as he respects our right to any other organization. And uphold the law regardless of "who" breaks the law. And if a law is unjust or unconstitutional, I hope he'll do his best to change it. And I hope he'll notice that 37% of union labor voted for him regardless of where the fatcats spent the money. That was more than enough to throw the election the other way. Remember the ol' saying... Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

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98 2500 CC SB 4X2 12v 5spd 4. 10, -silencer, AFC+20, Edelbrock IAS, VDO gauges, Reese 15k Classic
97 Dodge Stratus 150HP
92 Harley Fatboy, Dynojet fuel management, Supertrapp 2-1
00 Jayco 25' 5th wheel, single slide