Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Autopsy of an APPS

[Texas Diesel]

APPS' in hand!!! Will ship tomorrow or next day

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Will ship tomorrow or next day

 

[Texas Diesel]

Sticks, your 4 are ready to drop off at the post office.



Gary, I have to find a box to put the APPS assembly in, may be Thursday before I ship it.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Sounds great - get back to me with shipping expense so I can reimburse you - need address as well - sometimes shipping info is not readable from the package itself...



Looking forward to disecting and analyzing those things!

 

[Sticks]

I'm looking forward to painting DC on one and burning it at the stake!



My surging is getting worse, and still no codes.



Tomorrow I take it to the dealer and get them to go for a ride with me.

 

[KEarnest]

Man, I hope someone can come up with a better mousetrap. My APPS died on my truck the other day. It starting acting up, throwing codes and check engine light, then only lasted 2 days before dying completely. Got a new one for $310, what a deal One place quoted me $475



I have posted pics in my reader's rig gallery of my APPS replacement. The latest Mopar part number for the APPS for manual transmission-equipped trucks is 53031576AD, and 53031576AH for the auto transmission trucks. The parts man told me the part has been revised 15 times.



Oddly enough, my best friend here in town had to have his APPS replaced last Thursday. Our local dealer wanted $200 labor to replace it! This is a 20 minute job, tops.

 

[KEarnest]

Oh yeah, I now have 2 dead APPS sensors if anyone wants to experiment with them.

 

[WOT]

Just got mine... I did receive a quote from mopar4less for $331, but of course that was after I ordered from Cummins. 53031576AD is the part # they quoted me (manual transmission).



Where did you get one for $310?

 

[Sticks]

Tejas Deezul wrote on 03-24-2004 08:15 PM:

The assembly is put together from the label side. There is a groove you can dig out and pry the lid off. There is a lubricant (suspect silicone based) on the wiper and carbon pad. Possibly a dielectric grease.



Looks like to me a person could drill 1/4" holes, possibly larger, in the shaft side to spray cleaner (Q tip?) in and clean the carbon pads, then reapply the dielectric grease as a R&R procedure. Problem would be getting around the wiper arm. Drill them at the 10 O'clock and 4 O'clock positions, shaft facing you and connector at 6O'clock. Sealing the holes might call for a gasket to be fabricated and placed on reassembly.



There is no detectable wear on the carbon pads, the grooving was caused by displaced lubricant, at least in my sample (unknown mileage) The problem with just spraying carbcleaner in there is, if the lube is silicone based the cleaner will have no effect and if the cleaner can dissolve the crud and lube, it will die very quickly from no lube.



This is your thread so I wont post on the forum, just wanted to share what I found and thought.



Looks like cleaning it may buy a little time at best, no way to R&R it so replacement is the only option. There has to be a way to buy these doo dads.

Well, if you're not going to post it, I will for you. We need all the input we can get.



I will have to take another look at the carbon surface on mine to verify whether or not it was grooved, or the silicone lube was worn away.



Were you able to pull the cover (label side), and center panel to get to the brush side, or did you cut the brush side apart as well?

 

[Texas Diesel]

No, the center section (below the circuit 'board') was glued or molded in place



In the attached pic you can see the groove the lid sits in. I dont think disassembly is going to be possible. We are going to have to take the Killer Dower Pin Jig approach and figure out where to drill holes (sides, bottom etc) to get an appropraite cleaner and replacement lubricant in there.



The sample I had was well lubed, curious if the early failures could be cause by lack of lube and resulting wear like you saw in yours.

 

[Texas Diesel]

resistance (carbon) pad

 

[Texas Diesel]

surface polishing from the wipers (the four parallel lines)

 

[Sticks]

Is the board still connected to the pins in the connector?



Can that sensor be re-assembled into a functional manner or is it destroyed to get that far?



Could you give a step by step on how you got to that point?

 

[Sticks]

My bad, the e-mail link did not take me to page 6.



Your drill locations were the same that I was pondering. I think the important thing is to clean out the buildup on the inside bend of the brushes. Were yours gummed up as well?



Dielectric grease would work if it could take the heat and vibration and not settle to the bottom.

 

[KEarnest]

WOT,



I got mine for $310 at Tenafly Dodge in NJ. Here's a link to their website Tenafly Dodge



I also got the quote for $331 from Mopar4Less, but I figured that since I'm on the east coast and so is Tenafly Dodge that I could get the part quicker.



What was the corresponding Cummins P/N and price?

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by sticks

My bad, the e-mail link did not take me to page 6.



Your drill locations were the same that I was pondering. I think the important thing is to clean out the buildup on the inside bend of the brushes. Were yours gummed up as well?



Dielectric grease would work if it could take the heat and vibration and not settle to the bottom.

There was some buildup on the wipers (scratchers?). Only way to clean them is with crud dissolving cleaner IMO. Dielectric grease will take heat ok.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I wonder what part, electronically or physically, the APPS plays when using cruise control - and when the APPS appears to begin malfunctioning, is the same malfunction apparent when CC is engaged? Just curious as to how much the physical effect of the brushes/resistance pad contributes compared to possible component problems on the APPS circuit board. I had sorta thought the APPS was pretty much out of the circuit in CC with the later trucks, and all CC function was taken over by the ECM...



Do guys with apparent APPS problems usually still see problems when the CC is engaged?

 

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

I wonder what part, electronically or physically, the APPS plays when using cruise control - and when the APPS appears to begin malfunctioning, is the same malfunction apparent when CC is engaged? Just curious as to how much the physical effect of the brushes/resistance pad contributes compared to possible component problems on the APPS circuit board. I had sorta thought the APPS was pretty much out of the circuit in CC with the later trucks, and all CC function was taken over by the ECM...



Do guys with apparent APPS problems usually still see problems when the CC is engaged?

Just the opposite. If I am having one of those days where it is hitting me on the highway, I hit cruise and then it is a nice smooth ride.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

That should pretty well isolate the problem to the APPS then...

 

[Texas Diesel]

Any truck that doesnt have a vacuum servo and linkage to the APPS is ECM controlled cruise. I think it was in all late build 01's.