Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) B1 - Twins ???Questions???

[DHayden]

I think all twin setups require a 5" down-pipe and exhaust. Is this the same for a B1? I'm not completely familiar with the B1 but I have seen the break down and it looks awfully beefy.

How will a quick spool compare in response to the twins? I have heard that you don't have to worry about grenading a B1 if you bark it like you would an HX-35 or 40... is this somewhat true?

I would love to have twins no doubt. I not to long ago had a dual 4" exhaust put on and a 4"in-line exhaust brake. I am not real interested in replacing both of these components already with 5" versions, after all they are almost brand new. I suppose I would only have to go to a 5" down-pipe and 5" pipe where the brake is located to where it branches into the 4" duals? Then I would only be replacing a fraction of the exhaust and still biting it on getting a 5" brake.

Any helpful hints, tips or words of encouragement?



P. S. What kind of boost are you guys with B1's getting and how well does it hold boost up a hill when towing?

 

[Snow man]

Im real happy with how my Piers twins work! The hx40 on top spools good,and top end is great. Im was at 547hp with a leaky intercooler,at Kauffmans

 

[777 MECHANIC]

The B-1 requires the HX-40 downpipe. Not sure about the spoolup on a KS. I have the big housing and its a little laggy, but it has great top end. I bark mine on a consistant basis. Its hard not to with a stick. Max boost pressurs are 50-52 psi.



MikeD

 

[KWIKKURT]

The B-1 & B-2 Twin setups are AWESOME for towing!!! They will allow you to tow with 500+600+ HP and not have any EGT issues.



The B-2 "Big Turbo is less than 50% cost of many "Modified 40's". and most of the B-1 versions are about 35% more than some of the "Modified 40's" that are avail. Not to mention that Egt drops average 400+ deg with the B-1 verses the average HX40's 200 deg. That allows you to use more HP when towing before having to upgrade to twins. The KSB-1B (-2) are also faster spooling than most 40's.



The rumors that you need a heavily fueled truck for the "B-1's" Is not true. There are 1st gens with mild HP improvements running B-1's with great results.



The exhaust outlet options currently available are Standard "B-1" which is a true 4" outlet, HX 40 style or Hx35 style allowing use of stock exhaust and most Turbo mounted exhaust brakes. We also have several "B-1" Variations built especially for Towing, Sled Pulling, Max HP #'s, City style driving, High altitude, and High HP Automatics. And last but not least a exact bolt up version of the "B-1" for the '03 year trucks that even matches up with the exhaust.



Any other questions feel free to call or email it helps avoid all the misinformation. 505-534-0434 Thanks Kurt Yardley

 

[Snow man]

Bhayden, when i ran the B1 (which I loved BTW ), would see 26-34 psi on hills with the comp off and supermental injectors. Something Ive noticed Kurt is that i now can tow at over 500hp,and not have EGT issues,BUT coolant temps rise as fast as EGTS used to,so you still cant use all the power anyway,unless outside temps are real low. The B1/B2 is probably one of if not the strongest twins out there,IMO. I couldnt hurt the single B1 with nitrous or 55+PSI of boost.

 

[DHayden]

Thanks for everyones input, Kurt I'll be giving you a call to get the skinny.

 

[KWIKKURT]

Snow Man,



What are your max EGT's when pulling over 500 HP? Any smoke?Also do you know what your intake charge air temp is at the airhorn? If you get your egt's low enough your overheat will not be a issue. I am not sure what our radiators will support but it is all tied to the combustion process. The lower the intake charge the more fuel will be burned for HP and less will go to exhaust heat and the cooling system. Of course you know most of this already since you have compound twins.



I hope to do some testing with super high efficiency oil coolers. I know from other High HP testing on different engines in the past the amount of heat carried away by the oil system was surprising.



Kurt

 

[Huff N Puff]

I think 5in is the best setup for twins

Having said that I dont think its absolutly a must. I dynoed my truck at Kauffman's with a 4in system we did 570hp on diesel only,and in the 1\4mile we turned a 12. 9. EGTs weren't un reasonable just starting to touch 1500 at the end of the 1\4 . I have a 5in system now haven't dynoed it since. I will be running it this weekend,I'll let you know how we do. Merv

 

[Snow man]

Kurt If i have the box on level 4 i cannot get over 1150-1200 egts towing,but with this kind of Hp,and only an 8000 lb trailer,you cant stay in it that long,it just goes to fast . Smoek i have a thick cloud on spoolup,and it cleans up tnicely to a haze wide open. I dont know what mu intake temps are,I do not have a guage.

 

[KWIKKURT]

Snow Man, Isn't it a blast when you are out running empty trucks on 8% grades with a trailer in tow?



I will see if OffShoreRacer is done with my Temp meters. If you are interested I will send them to you for testing and tuning of your compound system. The meters I have allow you to read temps at 4 different locations at once. They will give you variances and time stamp max #'s. I like to test before and after the Big turbo, after the second (HP) turbo and after the intercooler (air horn).



It is interesting to see how much heat buildup verses the Boost multiplycation of each turbo to see which way to tune the compounds.



In short if you lower your EGT's to 900-1000 then your coolant temp will slow and the haze will clear up. Then the big problem is you have to go buy bigger injectors!!!



Is there a stopping point?? LOL





Kurt





Bumper Sticker: IF YOU CAN READ THIS - I NEED MORE FUEL!

 

[Jim Fulmer]

I would like to see someone put out some good R&D on the B-1

B-2 combo and not just say they are better, give us power levels that the truck is at and statistics about it and how is it used. . daily driver/towing/weekend warrior, what drive train it has, air temps(outside) with elevation, intake temps, boost levels, RPM's were it spools up past 10 psi, cruise EGT's, WOT EGT's... . normal drill.



Jim

 

[DHayden]

Well I spent 2 hours on the phone with Kirt. He answered all my questions in-depth and gave me plenty of alternate scenario's. I greatly appreciate your time and explanation Kirt.



Jim, hopefully in the very near future I will be able to provide you with some of those statistics you would like to see Oo.

 

[R.ebel]

I'm running a B1B that I tow with at high altitude and it works great for me. Decent spool-up with great midrange and top end power! It also has the reputation for being able to take a lot of abuse unlike an HX40 which can be on the fragile side over about 450 HP.



As far as the overheating problem goes here is my take on the subject... . the high boost levels that we are seeing is putting a lot of heat into the charge air cooler. I've crunched the numbers for a single turbo and at high boost levels it is pretty easy to have a compressor discharge temp of 450+ degrees.

Assuming the charge air cooler has an efficiency rating in the mid 60's the discharge temp ends up being around 220-230 degrees depending on the OAT. All the hot air off of the charge air cooler is now flowing over the radiator putting a lot of extra heat into the cooling system. This combined with the extra heat generated from high HP is what leads to the overheating. Thats my theory anyways.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

That data sounds pretty good and I'll refine it with actual numbers from my setup that you can use.



Discharge temp of 400 out of the Twins = 120 at the hat and this is a 50 psi, Max at the hat now with the outside air at 75 and I'm at 1300 ft..... 180-185, this is without water.



Yep I doubt anyone could say a 40 is tougher than B-1 but both have been blown up by the same person... . it's called pushing them to the moon... it's man made it going to break, your right about the 450 mark on the 40 as that's a good figure. Now we come to Twins using both as a top turbo it's a different game, now it's about spool up, drivability and the bottom charger as it should be doing the big work if the system is setup properly cause the top turbo isn't doing much and is wastegated very low. The big question that I wanted answered and tried to tell in the post I deleted was were does a big set of Twins come in, a guy with 500 hp doesn't need a B-1/B-2, and the cost of a setup like that is at least Twice what I have in mine. The regular person on the TDR needs to know all the info he or she can get and that is what I intend to put out, what I know, if I don't I'll ask the question. The next year is going to be fun!



Jim

 

[offshoreracr]

Originally posted by Jim Fulmer

I would like to see someone put out some good R&D on the B-1

B-2 combo and not just say they are better, give us power levels that the truck is at and statistics about it and how is it used. . daily driver/towing/weekend warrior, what drive train it has, air temps(outside) with elevation, intake temps, boost levels, RPM's were it spools up past 10 psi, cruise EGT's, WOT EGT's... . normal drill.



Jim

Well, I can give a little info out. I have done extensive temp/pressure readings and I am still doing them. My truck is as in the sig. and is a Daily driver. The drive pressures are consistently 10 psi lower than boost pressure up to 70 psi. ( no testing after 70). Air temps in the hat with 70ish outside air are around 83/85 degrees. That is on 5/5 with hot programing. Above 80/85 with humidity and the temps go to around 100 in the hat. Pre- intercooler temps are less than 400 degrees. I have dyno'd recently with a 585 at Kaufmanns Fawl Brawl, that is with very moderate fueling, I was out of fuel before full spool. There is a lot of potential, but tuning takes time. I will get it eventually. At the current level the truck is 100% streetable with zero smoke at light to moderate driving style. Egt's are 1300 ish at full tilt. I will post more later as I am changing exhaust housings to see if any gain can be had, as well as injector tuning.





Fred

 

[snowracer69]

Originally posted by Jim Fulmer



Yep I doubt anyone could say a 40 is tougher than B-1 but both have been blown up by the same person... . Jim

Just curious, who has blown up a B-1, as I was under the impression when I bought mine that the only one who came close to destroying one was JetPilot, and that his only needed some new bearings or something of the like, and that it was fixed and re-sold. Kurt told me it was still well within tolerances, but they did it anyway.



??? Just wondering outloud.



Josh

 

[rubberneck]

I believe strick9 sent one through the hood with a huge shot of n2o

 

[Hemiless]

Banks E-brake??

Kurt,



Do you have a B1 setup that will allow me to keep my banks E-Brake? Oo. Oo.

The exhaust outlet options currently available are Standard "B-1" which is a true 4" outlet, HX 40 style or Hx35 style allowing use of stock exhaust and most Turbo mounted exhaust brakes.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

There is a B1 with an EX3 housing that has the same outlet as an HX35(2. 75" vband).



Jim, I build a lot of HT3b twins and I'll say without a doubt that the b1/b2 SPANKS the 35/3B



The b1 flows more than an H2E and the b2 drastically outflows the 3B and spools faster. All of which lend themselves to lower temps and drive pressures.



We'll give you a ride in a B1/B@ set this weekend.



Later,

Mark

 

[Jim Fulmer]

That little outlet is nice but it's just a Mod... no big deal



I would hope the B-1/B-2 would be allot better than mine and no doubt that it is. It would have to be... ... that's almost 3 times as much money in turbo's as I have and you still have that silly wastegate to deal with..... cost and just something else to leak but it works.



Were is the data on the B-2 or the B-1 for that matter, I've never seen flow numbers on either turbo..... maybe I missed it!



I'd love to come down to the event as lots of folks want me there but working 12 on/ 12 off with a one hour recall I don't think I'll make it.



Offshore racer, don't know the name just the situation and that's what I was thinking, if Doug can't blown on up then who can..... a truck puller... . again I don't doubt the toughness of the turbo.



Thanks for the data that's good stuff to know... ... I like those drive pressures, I'll go back and test mine at that PSI as I know at 60 there 1 to 1.



Jim