Bad News Turbo

[DLeno]

not worthless at all.



The HX-35 on the std transmisson 2nd gen trucks was actually a slightly higher capacity turbo, in terms of the air flow choke point, than what we have today in the 3rd gens.



to me this means the 2nd gen EZ benefits MORE from the boost elbow than a 3rd gen EZ would. In other words, I would expect even less of a benefit from using the boost elbow on a 3rd gen because of the lower choke point.



I didn't put the boost elbow in my 02 ETH either...

 

[RustyJC]

The main benefits of the EZ's boost elbow in the 2nd generation ETH (HO) are (1. ) to drop EGTs and (2. ) to reduce smoke. I doubt the boost elbow makes a significant difference in peak BHP since (assuming stock or mildly upgraded injectors) there's enough air available at the stock 21-22 PSIG maximum boost to burn all the fuel the EZ can call for within the constraints of the ECM/VP-44.



Rusty

 

[DLeno]

Hey rusty did you find such benefits on your 02? did the boost elbow reduce EGTs by a measureable and significantly beneficial amount? I ran an 02/EZ combo for some time but I never put in the boost elbow. -doug

 

[RustyJC]

Doug,



Hard to say. Towing our previous 13,500 lb 5th wheel, our 02 ETH/DEE would hit 1300 degF pre-turbo EGTs stock. The first mod was the BHAF - no significant change - 25 degF EGT reduction, tops. Unfortunately, the next mod was the EZ, boost elbow and 4" Jardine exhaust, all on the same weekend. Maximum EGTs dropped to 1100 degF when towing. I'm convinced the additional airflow related to the higher boost (up from 21-22 PSIG to 30 PSIG) was responsible for the majority of the EGT reduction, but I certainly can't prove it.



The addition of the DD2 injectors is interesting. With the EZ plugged into the CANbus, I can hit 1300 degF EGTs once again due to the additional fueling, even at 34 PSIG boost. If I unplug the EZ from the CANbus but leave it connected to the MAP sensor where it acts as a boost fooler, peak EGTs drop back to the 1100 degF range at 30 PSIG boost when towing.



Rusty

 

[DLeno]

yea, the 2nd gens have more of a quick win available when you do 4" exhaust; that, and the more capable HX35 could point to a measureable benefit for using the boost elbow. Those of us with that tinly little 9 cm Hy charger just have to realize that there is essentially no margin left in it.

 

[RustyJC]

Doug,



The folks at Diesel Dynamics say the HX35W-12 will support about 330-340 RWHP (IIRC) if one is going to tow or otherwise work the truck. My experience bears that out. At 347 RWHP/762 lb-ft, I'm at the limit on EGTs. If I add any more fuel, I'm going to have to go to a hybrid HX35 (darned Jacobs e-brake limits me to a 3. 5" outlet) It's pretty amazing the BHP you 3rd genners are supporting with an HY35W-9!



I wish someone would hurry up with a good, reliable VGT turbo for us. Tight nozzle area for quick spooling and minimal smoke when off boost and off load, but large nozzle area for EGT control when hitting that 6-7% grade with a heavy 5th wheel in tow.



Rusty

 

[SOLER]

Good, and Bad

I got the truck back from the dealer. I had it towed back, as I didn't want to drive it for obvious reasons!



I got tired of waiting for the Rep to make a decision. I think I know what he would have said, so I just got my truck out of there. Those guys are criminal. I want a Rep job. As the Customer Service for Dodge said, "Those guys have very laxxed schedules. They'll get to it when they feel like it. " How's that for service commesurate for a $40,000 vehicle!



I don't know what they did to my truck, but both batteries have 2 volts in them!! WTFO!!!!! Those SOB's. That's why I absolutely HATE, LOATH, even DESPISE dealer service and why I never want to take my cars there. Damn, I can't begin to express how p-oed I am.



Anyway, I took the air tube off the outlet side of the intercooler and the aluminum runner to the manifold, and it's clean. The outlet tube on the front of the turbo is very oily/grimy, and has shavings in it. I think I'm good as far as the engine. The dealer put a note in the computer about my truck. I told them I'd put a turbo on it, clean the intercooler and tubes, show them receipts, and they'd take the "care" off of it. Thank goodness my engine is still covered.



So, I'm looking for a stock turbo. Anyone. Anyone. And where is a good radiator shop in Dover/MD that will do a good job of cleaning my radiator?



SOLER

 

[DLeno]

rusty -- yea, and we have guys trying to run ~350 RWHP with that little hy-9 using a "100 HP" box.



soler. I'd say you're right and your engine is ok. BTW, if you have oil in the intercooler and you put on a new turbo, you could generate a runaway condition where the ECM is powerless to shut things down. I know you're going to clean yours first... good that the intercooler saved your engine. why do you have to show them receipts? If it isn't their parts or their labor they won't cover an engine failure anyway if something in the intercooler breaks off and lands in a cylinder.

 

[SOLER]

The dealer knows that there is oil and sludge in the intercooler. They put a "care" on it. They said that that means I can't take it anywhere else and get warranty work done on the engine. But if I get things taken care of, and convince the dealer, they will remove the "care" and I'll be okay. I can take it wherever for future work. Basically, they were concerned that I was just going to ignore them and just start driving the truck in its current condition. And of course they don't want me to put a new turbo on it and have it blow all that crap from the intercooler into the engine.



I hear ya about the runaway. I'm wondering why I didn't have one anyway. Whew!! I've a friend on here that had one. His turbo started leaking oil, and it hit 4 grand. I can't remember how he got it shut down.



I've got the turbo (intake side) and the intercooler isolated from the engine. The tow driver left it in the street. I need to put it in the driveway tomorrow. I'll start it up, but the turbo won't be sending anything into the engine, and neither will the intercooler. I'll only drive it 50 yards.



I wonder how this truck would run without a turbo at all, like an old Detroit, and those GM 6. 2 (Detroit also). I used to drive a truck, and it had a NA Detroit. Gutless pig, but it ran. It would go down the road, but couldn't pull a load up any kind of hill to save it's life, and always overheated when trying. Can I do this until I get a new turbo shipped here?



SOLER

 

[wsteffes]

You're going to pump some oil on the driveway unless you plug the oil line to the turbo.

It takes a 12mm 1. 5 tread boss plug with o-ring in the filter housing.

A 12mm 1. 5 tread bolt 1/2 inch long with a crush washer will work too.

It's a pain, but I would pull the intake manifold cover to inspect for junk.

If anything did get in the engine it's now part of the pistons or out the exhaust.

Good luck!

Bill



PS: Been there done that!

 

[R.M.THOMPSON]

Hey Soler,

Whalens radiator shop ,in Elkton,on rt. 40,about 50 minutes from the base. Has been doing big rig,passenger and performance work for years. Good shop. The number is 410-398-7129. BTW,Jakes diesel service is across the street and Northeast Cummins is about 2 miles west on 40(ask for INKY) good Dude. Later . P. M. me for details Oh ,that is only about 20 minutes south of Oxford and I wonder what they would do differant with your problem.

Mark T.

 

[SOLER]

Thanks

Thanks. I'll call them on Monday. I can't believe there aren't any good shops in Dover. I can't wait until I move from here. Tax free shopping is not a big deal when you can't find stuff you need.



I pulled the truck into the drive today. It spewed a little oil out, but not too bad. Where is the oil leaking from, I wonder. Is it from the worn out bearings. That's my guess.



I got the intercooler out. sort of a pain with the air conditioning and my stainless grill guard in the way. Not too bad, though.



The turbo was a little difficult. Only because there isn't much room to get a breaker bar and socket on it, and I couldn't get a cheater bar on the wrench. I ended up muscling the nuts until I got them loose. The ones on the bottom were tough to get to. Oh, it was a real pain lifting the motor and removing the motor mount in order to get the turbo out of there like the dealer said. Wait a minute. The service dude doesn't know his arse from a hole in the ground!!! He's a real moron, to say the least. He was gong to charge me 8 hours of labor to do it because he said the motor mount had to be removed. Anyway, it came right out once everything was unhooked. The blades are real bad and the shaft is shot. Maybe I'll tear it down and look at all the parts, just out of curiosity.



Well, now all I need is a new turbo. Does anyone have one? Two guys here have said they have one. One guy sold his, the other hasn't got back to me yet. Anyone have a stock HY35 for 3rd gen 305 hp engines? Will a HX35 from a 2nd gen work? If so, I've seen some for sale and will jump on them.



SOLER

 

[SOLER]

Hey Soler,

Whalens radiator shop ,in Elkton,on rt. 40,about 50 minutes from the base. Has been doing big rig,passenger and performance work for years. Good shop. The number is 410-398-7129. BTW,Jakes diesel service is across the street and Northeast Cummins is about 2 miles west on 40(ask for INKY) good Dude. Later . P. M. me for details Oh ,that is only about 20 minutes south of Oxford and I wonder what they would do differant with your problem.

Mark T.

Just called Whalens. He says he doesn't flush out intercoolers



I found a diesel shop here that might be able to do it though.

 

[DLeno]

just for brainstorming here -- how much does new intercooler cost?

 

[ROCKJEEP]

Ok I am now really concerned. I have the very early edition 03. Its a ca SO with the 47re. I have the edge ez with the boost elbow and run it on level 5. I also have the afe with torque tube and fred swansons 4" stright piped exhaust, and the x monitor. I have been running this setup for well over a year. I can hit 39lbs of boost all day long just driving empty. And towing the car trailer and jeep at 65mph i average aroung 16-20 lbs of boost. I never had a prolem, but after reading all this I am worried. Should I just drive it and not worrie or what. And should I put the stock elbow back on. The egt has never been an issue. i drive by that gague as soon as I get near 1200 i back down, but the boost goes from 0 to 40 really fast. I did some drag racing at the track. it was a 1/8 mile and ran low 10's. I also won the firestone burnout contest in this truck. My egt was around 1050 but the boost was over 36lbs. had to feather the gas to keep the boost down. This truck is scary fast.

 

[DLeno]

I guess that depends on your own approach to the "I am my own warranty station" and the level of risk you are comfortable with. There are Guys that race and take more risks with their trucks than you do, but that doesn't mean they are counting on Chrysler to pick up the tab for a failed turbo. You have four issues that you may want to consider if your goal is continued warranty protection of your drivetrain:



fuel pressure: The EZ on level 5 goes beyond what Edge considers safe in terms of maximum rail pressure. Thats level 5 on an HO truck -- on the SO I truck I expect similar maximum rail pressures, but you should check with Edge on that. At issue is the tendancy of the pressure relief valve to go when subjected to pressures above what the EZ on level 4 is capable of. I actually haven't heard of any valve failures when using level 5; only level 6.



boost: Just from my own experimentation and from reading here, I'd say you are putting your turbocharger at long term reliability risk at those high boost pressures. Unless I'm mistaken about the charger used on the cali SO. You might put the wastegate back to stock (remove the Edge elbow) and see what it does to your power. Do you know what your boost pressures are w/o the elbow installed? your wastegate may be set differently from my early 04 HO.



47RE: talk to some folks here about the 47RE and power enhancements; I can't answer that one



drag racing: thats pretty hard on the transmission. Of course, Chrysler will not warrant your drivetrain if they knew you were racing at the strip. thats pretty clear in the manual



Thats just MY $. 02, with the assumption that you are looking to Chrylser to warranty your drivetrain.

 

[ROCKJEEP]

well, i went out and out the stock elbow back on, and put the ez on level 4. Will see how things drive and will let you all know after lunch.

Kory

 

[SOLER]

Almost $700!

just for brainstorming here -- how much does new intercooler cost?

From the Dealer. I'm assuming that these are a new design and earlier ones won't fit?



SOLER

 

[DLeno]

yikes. no they're not a new design I don't think -- original intercooler stock as a replacement part for what you have. There may be some after market intercoolers that might be more efficient, I don't know...



what does a good cleaning cost and how do they guarentee that not even one aluminum fragment is trapped in there and might end up under an intake valve?

 

[SOLER]

what does a good cleaning cost and how do they guarentee that not even one aluminum fragment is trapped in there and might end up under an intake valve?

I don't know how they can gaurantee, but Big trucks blow turbos, more often than our small trucks. These guys clean coolers for the big rigs, so I'm going to hope for the best.



It's about $75 (1 hour of labor).



SOLER