Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Ball bearing turbo thread

[BDaugherty]

Could anyone who has reliable or personal experience with running a ball bearing turbo briefly tell us your story? How does it compare in top end boost, egts, and spoolup?

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

I have a Garrett Powermax Stage III on my truck and I am a lil bit less than thrilled with it's inability to keep egt's down with the setup I have. Spoolup is INSTANTANIOUS and it is one strong unit too. For some odd reason Garrett thought that using the STOCK mind you exhaust elbow on their "big" turbo was a reason to keep it simple for drop in folks.



This is where I think the engineering dept had walked out the building friday afternoon. When you look at it it is beyond restrictive but that is a whole nother post.



Being water cooled is nice as they claim that shutdown times are not as crittical as a bushing unit. I still idle down to 350 Pre anyhow. My heat is much hotter in the winter I noticed Bearing turbos are strong come to find out in the diesel crowd. The ever lovin fear of barking one and having the bearings seize is not an issue I can personally attest to that. And with the shaft size on theese things I am sure that strength is much more than good for us.



The tink tink click sound when shutdown happens is priceless. Plus it spools down for a month too LOL!

 

[BDaugherty]

I'm glad to hear that you like it. I've been looking at the Powermax II. The plan is Hot Juice W/attitude, 100hp injectors, and possibly Powermax II. It will be next year before I have the $$ save up for that step, so I've got plenty of time to research.



I curious to hear what you could compare it to for EGT reduction. Do you think that the exhaust elbow is a real problem? If so, and if it's the same as the stock elbow, why not use a Banks monster elbow and downpipe? Or what about that high dollar coolbreeze downpipe? Is there another thread that I could be reading to keep you from having to write everything all over again?

Also, what can you tell me about the "dangers" or that turbo bark. I'm just trying to get some real world feedback and I'm glad to hear that the spoolup is so fast. Does it compare to stock spoolup?

 

[aircop]

Guys Check out Turbo Re-Source they the sell the Garrett kits that have been modified, mine has a different exhaust housing and I use a HX40 down pipe. Mine spools right now. Passing on e-way truck just snaps forward it spools so fast. At 70mph I'am running about 3psi boost, egt's average about 500*. I love it.

 

[lholley]

Guys Check out Turbo Re-Source they the sell the Garrett kits that have been modified, mine has a different exhaust housing and I use a HX40 down pipe. Mine spools right now. Passing on e-way truck just snaps forward it spools so fast. At 70mph I'am running about 3psi boost, egt's average about 500*. I love it.

Is it just the exhast elbow they modify or do they modify the turbine housing? Do you have a link to their web site. The one I didn't show any products. If you have pictures of your kit that

you could post that would be great.

 

[aircop]

NO they change the exhaust housing, not much on web site. need to call and talk to Tom. I'am running the what they call a custom stage 3. Turbo waste gate is set at 35 psi right now. Will bump it up to around 42 when I get my 150 stixs installed. Back surgery slows you down.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

I was looking for this for ya and Andy got a closer look at theese and here is his report. I still love mine other than the egt issue.

Toolman called me and told me about your post here and asked me to add to what he has already told you. So here is what I have learned and what I know about these as I run a Stage 3 version on my tuned 12v.



The Garrett GT37R Stage 3 is "advertised" as being able to support 370hp over the stock number. So if you add this with the already at 215 which my truck is at from Dodge then it would seem to make at 585hp,right?. Incorrect oh young student of dieselology as not all is as one seems to be when it comes to the manufacturers claims of power.



My 12v was has a ported head, better valve springs,retainers and keepers,redone P-Pump,custom injectors,Haisley injector lines, and a 150/95 45lb FASS to feed its hunger. I have tons of fuel,plenty of timing to light the charger and when at the end of a dyno pull its still rolling coal. Not having fuel is not a issue,not having the proper charger is. See when my truck wants to make power and with this turbo lit at 1100 rpms,when its time the engine want to make the power the charger is out of map. I have learned that on a mildly fueled truck it may be the real deal and lite later and move the map area out where its needed but on something that has a good amount of fuel and timing(ie-a 12v truck) it will lite to early and be done before you need it. I would imagine a 24v with a fueling box and some mild injectors may be just enough to slow it down and lite it later so you can utilize it in its map range better.



They also have a very bad restriction in their so called "power elbow" which is sued to bolt up a factory 2 bolt down pipe. When that elbow is used it has a 1/4 lip(or wall) that extends beyond the outer walls of the exhaust housing and creates a terrible restriction. That will send egts flying off the chart and before I addressed it I had seen 1700 degrees on the dyno. I took it off and went to a flow bench so we could see what was happening and when the gasses rode along the outer walls they then hit the lip and bounced back into the turbo raising drive pressures and exhaust temps. Before I corrected it I had seen drive pressures that were almost a 2-1 ratio with my boost(meaning that if I had 20 lbs of boost I had 40lbs in the exhaust housing). and as you accelerated they went out of sight. Since all it took was unbolting to change the problem my local shop made a HX40 style exhaust flange to bolt in place of the elbow. We then fabbed a downpipe as a standard HX40 pipe will not work as the Garrett is longer and it throws off the angles bad. Once the new adapter plate was on and the down pipe fabbed I went back to the dyno and no more drive pressure issues were seen. Its now a 1-1 ratio and the highest egts I have seen are around 1500 under a full pull on the dyno. Now I have had this on for a year now and other than the early problems I have had not one issue with it. The spoolup is insane and will plant you in the seat and its one of the nicest driving chargers I have ridden in or driven. It is very user friendly and has a nice tone to it when you spool it up. I am pleased with the product but not pleased it didn't work out for me,things happen and we try other stuff. One thing I would LOVE to try with the way it spools is to make it the top turbo in a set of twins. Ah yes,thats another dream and down the road as piece at the next rest stop.



I hope I helped you some with what your looking for if you have any questions feel free to ask and I will place a couple of pics in the next posts to show some of what we did to make her go... ... ... Andy

 

[KLockliear]

I run the old Edge/Turbonetics turbo and it works fine. Better than the HX40 I had before. I think the Bell Turbo WSB had a little better spool and EGT reduction, but you can't buy those anymore.



I'd recommend you talk to your injector vendor. Most vendors have already figured out what works well with their parts. They will likely have a recommendation for turbo at the power level you will be at. If you get what they recommend and have issues, it's much easier to get them to help you if you don't just have one thing from every shop in the book.