Bombing Recommendations for an Auto?

[RADdodge]

In reading past threads on auto transmissions, power boxes, injectors, etc. , it seems the recommendation is for a set (not variable) hp level. It also appears that it's best to BOMB the engine before the transmission so the transmission can be set up properly. Am I on the right track here? I'm thinking I'd like to shoot for about 350 hp to the ground (I haul at GVWR of about 12k and pull another 4k when traveling - this is maximum). Traveling locally, the truck is unloaded. Is 350 hp realistic? I suppose I could use an adjustable box, but I'd be tempted beyond what I could bear to change it (especially up). The DD Stage III's look promising, if I could keep the truck from smoking. I was looking at the Banks system because it meets CA emissions. I'd appreciate any recommendations. Thanks.

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2001 RAM 3500 Quad Cab SLT+, 4WD, Auto, 4. 10 Anti-Spin Differential, Trailer Tow Pkg, Camper Pkg, Flame Red, Tan Leather, 19. 5 Alcoa wheels/ Michelin 285/70R19. 5 XZA (Dual Designs Wheel Adapters); Rancho 9000 Shocks; Clifford AvantGuard Alarm System with IntelliStart 4; Isspro Digital Pyrometer & Analog Boost in A Pillar, Isspro Hour Meter, Powervision Electric Extension Mirrors; Gator Bed Liner, Westin Platinum CPS step bars, Electric Tailgate Lock; 5 lb. Halon Fire Extinguisher; Klasse Acrylic Sealant; Lance '94 10'-9" 880 Camper w/all options plus.

 

[Jetpilot]

I have an EZ, DD 2's, DTT tc & vb, HX35, and love this setup. I haven't dynoed my truck but it probably has around the power output you are looking for. As for fixed vs. variable power, you can set the transmission up to work good all the time with fixed power. With the variable boxes the transmission will only work best at one power output level.

As far as the order, I would do the engine first but immediatly do the transmission. The transmission won't take that much power very long (especially while towing) without having a problem. Just my $. 02 worth..... good luck.

Doug Smith

[This message has been edited by Jetpilot (edited 05-29-2001). ]

 

[Bob Wagner]

save yourself some greif only do mild power upgrades before the VB and TC

It will be less expensive this way.

Bill K can set up your VB for the power add ons that you plan to add later #ad

 

[Gary C]

I thought I had the transmission deal licked, it was supposted to hold 400hp, didn't even hold 325hp. Somebody rebuilt it here in SoCal and now I am on my fourth TC and third transmission in 15000 miles.

Do It Correctly once, DTT Stuff, plug it in and no worries.

Or go to DD does trannys in Vegas, take a vacation and get it done in a day or two.

I am very happy with mine.



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2001. 5 2500 QuadCab SLT, Auto, 3. 54 Anti-Spin Axle, 4X2, SWB, White/Tan, Stockland Camper, Interior kit, Debadged, Custom CUMMINS Logo Sticker, Front Spoiler, Sport Tail Lenses, Valentine One, SPA Gauges Pillar Mount, Magtech transmission Pan and Rearend Cover, HX 40 and 16cm turbo, DD2's, 4 inch exhaust and down pipe with two muffles from DD, Diesel Dynamics' New Ultimate Power Module, Psychotty Air Box, DDT 91 TQ and VB, DTT Smart Controller, transmission Blueprinted by DD, 450+ HP/930+ftlb.
www.ProwlerOnline.com
View my Cummins Sticker

 

[RADdodge]

Ok - So I guess what I'm really asking is how much power can an auto (DTT upgraded with a TC, VB, PacBrake and Smart Controller) reliably handle? What can a stock auto transmission handle? I see on another post by **ICEMAN** that BK inferred that DD Stage III's were too much. I assume he was writing about a DTT modified auto. Do you think that's with injectors alone or with a timing/fueling box? I really appreciate any insight you guys can offer. I want to do this right the first time. I wish Marco had his ECM out already, that would be another option. But then again, I'm confused enough as it is! Thanks!

P. S. I haven't got the transmission upgraded yet, but planning on it with a vacation to the north country this fall. I hear the fishing is real good up there!

 

[Strick-9]

Bob,

I don't know how to start this. But, I hope Bill himself will reply to this topic to straighten this out.

I can't let you tell Bruce that Bill's VB and TC will support 500 cummins diesel horsepower.

Yes, HVAC has a transmission built by DTT, but it isn't just a TC and VB change. Hours and hours of custom machining goes into a customized transmission. You probably don't know that. HVAC also had broken parts. I'm sure you read about that. So why do you lie to a relative newcomer about transmission reliability? Bruce asked how much power could be handled RELIABLY. I know you support DTT. I do too. Bill has probably done more for me personally than he ever will for you, but I'm not going to lie about his products. You've gone too far here.

A big problem I have with a certain unmentioned vendor is false marketing. People are lead to believe that a TC and VB change are all that is required to handle 500hp and allows someone to do tire smoking burnouts with no transmission damage.

Bill does not support this type of advertising. I know that Bill would never ask you to say good things about his products, but you are in fact advertising for him when speak of his products. Word of mouth advertising is often more powerful than anything a business can come up with. So when you make false claims about his products you are taking away one of the fundamental issues Bill started his company with. Honesty. Don't take that away from him.

-Chris

 

[Fred Swanson]

Bruce, in response to your questions, and after reading through it a couple of times, you'll have concerns with 350 HP and pulling 12-15K combined. When towing alot, you can't ask any transmission to live forever. They will wear out like anything else, or even break. BUT, if you keep the HP reasonable, and do the transmission upgrades, you'll have a better setup to pull your loads. Keep the HP reasonable if you're going to tow alot. When you have that much power, and are pulling upwards of 10K, you're putting stress on everything. An EZ is a great add-on, but DD3's might be pushing it. Several guys on the TDR are running and love the EZ and 275's. This is a good combination, and your EGT's don't go crazy while towing. Another thing, don't lug the motor under 1700 RPM's while towing.
Hope this helps your decision. You want to do it once and do it right. Just don't over do it.

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Fred Swanson
Canyon State Components, LLC


'00 QC,SB,4x4,Auto,3. 54 w/LSD,Trailer Package,Tow Package,DTT's
TC(91%)&VB(80psi),DD2's,EZ,HOT PE,K&N RE-0880,Cummins RED Valve Cover

 

[Guest00]

DD2's and an EZ dynod 327 hp at MM. see sig. Egt's max at 1250 towing. This combo will pull any thing I have encountered from NM to BC, Las Vegas, Tx, Ok at 75 mph in direct ( 3rd) Gear Vendors OD ( 2250 rpm ), 12. 5 mpg, cept when in 40 to 60 mph winds ( 9. 5 mpg at a sustained 25 - 30# boost for 450 mi @ 75 mph ) grossing 18k#. EGT's never exceeded 1350 and coolant temp never exceeded 210 in the high winds.

I am sure there are grades that will require slowing but have not found them yet, will not be disappointed when I do.
I have put almost 10k mi towing on this combo in the last year.

It will SMOKE ( spelled epa's gonna get ya!!) when heavy throttle at low boost, I never pour on the coal when rpm lower than 1900 rpm under load and tc locked up, unlocked its ok, ba//s to the wall - that is what the DTT tc is all about.

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2K, 2500, Quad, SB, 4x4, 3:54LSD, A/T w/ DTT VB, TC, SMART BOX and AUX COOLER , REESE 15k 5th slider, EASLEY BULL BAR, MAAP NERFS, BFG-TA's, 9000's,STAINLESS BRADED 6an FUEL LINES, stealth DD2's, Bully Dog Boost & elbow, ISSPRO pyro, boost & transmission, Turbo Lifesaver, JARDINE 4", PAC BRAKE, MAG HYTECH TP& DC, AFE filter, GEAR VENDORS OD, TAYLOR WING, MAGNA MIRRORS, V Mc's SS Fuel Lines, Cup Smoothie. #ad
nboard.

pullees:
#1 y2k ARTIC FOX 5th
#2 22' car hauler w/ 76 Pinto 392cid or 68 Cyclone GT Cobra Jet FB
NRA-LIFE, VFW-LIFE, SoCSA-LIFE, SASS

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[This message has been edited by JNutter (edited 05-30-2001). ]

 

[Mopar-muscle]

strick-9 , amen , bill keeps telling me i'm going to break stuff , once i put in the DD3's i started to break stuff . OD output shaft , now i think i'm slipping 3rd (drive) . in a few weeks i'll have the trans out , soonest i can get to it, to access the damage , its ok as long as i use the HP in moderation , but moderation is not always prudent and i'm actually pushing it to see just what will break , good thing i can fix it myself , i thank Bill for that , he is the best . he is truely looking out for the Dodge Diesel owner , can't say that about to many of the vendors that let the $$$$$ take over being prudent and selling you only what you need and what really works .

though i finally am getting to test the DD3's for MILEAGE , and believe it or not is gotten better than the 275's , need to test a few tanks , going to new jersey this weekend towing 6000 plus with the DD3's and the 93% TC .

you have to ask Yourself what you want out of your truck and what you really need to accomplish it , how many times do you crest a hill with 12k in tow doing 100 mph ??? never mind trying to stop the speeding beast .

also keep in mind NOTHING IS BULLETPROOF if someone trys to feed you that line they are full of it .

 

[Bob Wagner]

Strick I try to mislead no one
I will wait for Bills reply.

Thanks,
Bob

DD3 are a mild upgrade to Bills set up.

Give Bill a call to discuss your concerns.


[This message has been edited by Bob Wagner (edited 05-30-2001). ]

 

[Mopar-muscle]

the trans can hold a lot of HP , its the torque thats the killer .

DD3's is a mild upgrade ALONE , add an EZ , still ok , good for about 340 - 350 rear wheel , add a post electronics fueling box and all bets are off , depending on the level of course , i think i'm slipping the 3rd gear clutch pack with DD3's , and my hot pe in level 3 , no EZ on board , either that or its breaking traction , have to do a bit more testing . DD2's and an EZ will be more than enough for most , only extreme nutjobs need or desire more ... i guess i fall into the last catagory #ad

 

[Bill Kondolay]

This post is actually quite interesting to me personally,you see Chris, & Bob both have strong set opinions based on YOUR personal experiences.

A thread like this is really about opinions, mine and yours alike. I am always happy to share my opinions, as most of you know, and they are opinions based on my 20 years of acquired experience in the transmission and performance industry.

When talking about reliable towing applications, i consider a transmission that lasts 100,000 miles reliable.

It is highly unlikely that a 500hp truck is going to accomplish that. The odds are against it from the start.

I have chosen to take a stand on a power level i consider to offer good performance & transmission durablility.

Trucks, owners,hp levels, application all differ. That is why we do custom profile sheets.

I am a DD dealer and by choosing not to sell the DD111's does not mean the DD111's alone will cause transmission reliability issues if the transmission has been upgraded.

I chose that path based on my experiences with the Dodge ram owners, as they dont stop there!

I am an Edge dealer and they know i recommend the EZE box and i will not sell the variable fueling boxes, once again, there is nothing wrong with the boxes, but customers trust me to recommend the safest choices in regards to the transmission longivity and overall performance based on their personal application.

I have yet to meet a Dodge Ram owner that hasnt for testing purposes of course not tried the highest levels of these variable fueling boxes once they have bought them .

I think it is human nature to touch the flame and see if it really hot. (lol)

I am not saying we cant and dont build higher hp torque converters and transmissions, if you look at the signatures on some of these ram owners , it is apparent we do, i just dont recommend them for guys towing.

When guys are towing a 5th wheel they have to consider the air they are pushing too, not just the weight, it is all relevant.

See guys like Jack Nutter cheat , they added a wing , a very good idea for the guys towing 5th wheels. By adding the wing they dont need as much hp to maintain their speed.

Increasing transmission cooling will also make the transmission more durable, increasing your service intervals will assist in longevity.

After this sermon , what do i consider to be the safe and reliable hp upgrades for the automatic transmission, in case anyone is still interested, either a minor fueling box DD true torque, or the eze va, and the DD11's as they seem to have the lowest egt's of all the injectors i have tested and yes there is some smoke with this combo when you first stomp on it, or the 275's.

As you go up in hp most you guys are aware many other factors become an issue.

Exhaust, Air Intake, Turbo Size, Fuel System, all these things play a role in the overall performance and durability.

On a more personal note, while we never would presume to tell any of our customers what to say or feel, we very much appreciate the support and the differences of opinion.

Chris, how you feel we treated you is how Bob feels we treated him, and if we have done our jobs properly all our customers should feel the same way. And if they dont, what that means to us is we have to work harder.

Bruce based on what youve said , 12000lb
5th wheel, for durability i would suggest you dont go above 300 rear wheel hp.

Bill Kondolay
Diesel Transmission Technology

 

[RADdodge]

Thanks Bill and everyone. Well this gets me in the ballpark. I actually don't tow a 5th wheel, but I have a Jeep Wrangler to tow when I go to the Eastern Sierra's along with a Lance Camper. So I only occasionally tow. I see the point about the camper/5th wheel profile and aerodynamics though. So I guess the Stage III's, the Edge Comp or the DD's Ultimate Power Module (are these the same?) are out... . sigh.

So I guess a good combination is something like Jetpilot's setup - after the transmission is upgraded. I'll try to restrain myself but I've got this feeling...

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Bruce,

Bombing is addictive #ad
#ad
#ad

But fun #ad


Stefan Kondolay
DTT

 

[Mopar-muscle]

well said Bill , seems i myself have been rolling around in that flame ... #ad
#ad


stefan has your dad seen that post ??? #ad


heres an update on my blowing thru 3rd , its not , it was actually shifting back into second and winding right up to 3450 #ad
couple tweaks of the TV cable and its not doing it anymore , looks like i'm ready for some more HP #ad
#ad
#ad

 

[Bob Wagner]

Thanks Bill #ad


Touch the flame #ad
LOL