bosch recomendations for lubricity

[RM]

just read this report from bosch about there recommendations for lubricity for there rotary and common rail pumps. they don't like american diesel seems its not always up to there lubricating standards. some pictures with it don't look good and charts. at this address http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/meeting/2003/022003bosch.pdf

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Yep, that's why the last 3 trucks I've owned get Amalgamated at almost every fillup. If I don't have that handy then it's Stanadyne. The convincing experience for me was the amount of deposits on injector tips from trucks not running conditioner, whereas those who do look good even with quite a few miles. There were was little more than a thin layer of soot on the tips of my DD2s that I pulled out after running them 50,000 miles.



Vaughn

 

[Matt400]

Hey ronmonical,

Very interesting report. Not just the data but the fact it is posted on the California Air resource Boards site. Looks like manufactures are leaning on CARB for better fuel to enable them to market to CA and other states following the same guidelines.



Before CARB tells the fuel companies what spec to produce it wouldn't surprise me if they just looked the other way and said. . If you want your Diesels sold here- you figure out how to make em work with what fuel we have now.



Pretty scary seeing 80% of the Diesel tested was above the min of 460, even worse was the range being 351 to 648 and what the CR system looked like at 650!



Thanks for the link

 

[rbattelle]

Well, that report's the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm going to run an additive.



-Ryan

 

[Matt400]

Hrmm, well with a little more research I found these two quotes from ASTM:

The proposed level of 520 microns based on the above document is a reasonable technical compromise to ensure proper protection for injection equipment.

The CRC Diesel Performance Group has committed to conduct a research program to provide additional supporting data to adjust this level if necessary, especially for the new high-pressure common-rail injection equipment

The above was found on this page

520 HFRR doesn’t look favorable when compared to Boshes report.

I think suppliers should have to post their HFRR and Cetane number right on the pump so consumers willing to do the research can at least have the data to make a decision on additives.

 

[Doubleclutch]

Well color me stupid, but it sounds like the third gen is getting the lubricity enhancment, and the second gen is getting the Amalgamated cetane enhancment. Sure is the pits when we the consumer have to play Dr. Chemist to keep our vehicles running right. And Diesel fuel isn't expensive enough already?

Greg

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I've been pointing to that same CARB/Bosch report for about a year now, as justification of my REGULAR use of PS fuel additive, and recommendation that other owners concerned with the lifespan of their fuel system pumps do the same!



I'm always amazed at owners who are interested enought to SOMETIMES use an additive - but not enough to do it regularly - after all, how can an owner know WHICH tank of fuel needs the extra protection? *I* sure don't, so I always use it! As I've said before, it's much like a guy with a bad heart only OCCASIONALLY taking his heart medicine...

 

[tschwab]

I have also seen that presentation before, which is the exact same reason I also use additives at each fill-up. The problem I have, is trying to decide which additive to use. Currently it is Stanadyne PF (Demulsifyer). I have read good things about Redline (Emulsifyer) and have seen the debate which is a better way at removing the water from the fuel.



Maybe I will start using Cummin's Premium Plus Lubricity and Injector Cleaner and let the water in fuel (WIF) do it's job and not worry about which is better, emulsifying or demulsifying the water.



Afterall, if Cummins felt we needed an emulsifyer or demulsifyer, don't you think they would make one or recommend one?

 

[jimnance]

I have also seen that presentation before, which is the exact same reason I also use additives at each fill-up. The problem I have, is trying to decide which additive to use. Currently it is Stanadyne PF (Demulsifyer). I have read good things about Redline (Emulsifyer) and have seen the debate which is a better way at removing the water from the fuel.



Maybe I will start using Cummin's Premium Plus Lubricity and Injector Cleaner and let the water in fuel (WIF) do it's job and not worry about which is better, emulsifying or demulsifying the water.



Afterall, if Cummins felt we needed an emulsifyer or demulsifyer, don't you think they would make one or recommend one?

Thanks, this is exactly the point I was trying to make with respect to low sulfur fuel and the loss of lubricity. The fact is that the industry isn't consistantly adding the needed lubricity additives needed as they work towards meeting the June 2006 deadline for ULSD.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

CUMMINS doesn't recommnd a fuel additive?



How about THIS from the Cummins website:



"Premium Plus Lubricity Additive/Cleaner



Premium Plus™ Lubricity Additive/Cleaner has been engineered to meet Cummins specifications. Premium Plus™ is a precise combination of advanced lubricity additives and ashless detergents. Some fuel additives can be harmful to the engine. Premium Plus™ Lubricity is the ONLY diesel fuel additive recommended by Cummins (See Cummins Service Bulletin 3379001-05). This special formula helps your customer's engine maintain optimum performance. It improves tolerances to low quality fuels and protects against corrosion in the fuel system. A lubricated and clean fuel system helps your engine maintain peak fuel efficiency for lower operating costs and higher profits.



It Pays To Run Clean. Your customers don't know if they're getting good quality fuel at every fill up. Recommend Premium Plus™ Lubricity Additive/Cleaner regularly to help maintain optimum engine performance. "



IT seems Cummins doesn't recommend use of a fuel additive... Unless you use THEIR brand of course...



I rest my case...

 

[Tony T.]

The link will not open for me for some reason, all I get is a blank page. Is Bosch recommending a certain lubricity additive or just the use of any lubricity additive.



Tony

 

[DDahl]

Use back and reload it. That solved my blank loading problem.

 

[Matt400]

The article is about the effects of low lubricicity in US grade fuels, great pics too so keep trying that link. Its a pdf doc. so takes a while to load.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

That is a . PDF file, and you must have a PDF reader to open it - the article is not about recommending any lubricity additive, but rather a Bosch symposium held before the California Air Resources Board a year or so ago, with substantial documentation and testing showing the poor quality in diesel fuels as sold in a representative cross-section of stations in California, and those results are pretty likely duplicated across the USA.



But once you SEE that report, and the accompanying test results and detailed photos of what poor fuel quality WILL do to ALL injection pump types, INCLUDING the latest common-rail stuff, it's pretty hard to NOT decide to add your own quality additive for better fuel lubricity.

 

[Matt400]

Anyone with thoughts about this stuff:

#ad

• Remove injector deposits
  
• Minimize fuel system deposits
  
• Lubricate fuel pumps and injectors
  
• Restore lost horsepower caused by injector deposits
  

Says Cummins approved



I was looking at the bottle today and see it treats up to 45 gal so most would dump in the whole bottle at over 4 bucks. I didn't see anything about a Cetane boost.

 

[WyattEarp]

Well i guess some are now wondering why i have used Power service for so long along with off road, and Marvel Mystery Oil... she is still going at 97000+... I don't care whatever it takes to keep the pump nice and lubricated and the injectors clean... . The past couple of time i have picked up some new stuff, i think its from Gunk(in a beige bottle) diesel fuel injector cleaner as walmart has stopped carrying STP diesel treatment...

Heck if i new KY Jelly would do it i would go buy a case just for the Cummins, of course i would get strange looks, my reply would be *thats what makes her happy* LOL :-laf

 

[Kry226]

But did you all catch this statement?



"This presentation covers the interests of

è Robert Bosch GmbH

è Delphi Diesel Systems

è Denso Corporation

è SiemensVDO Automotive AG

è Stanadyne Automotive Corporation"



I use Stanadyne regularly, but a report with their name on it recommending the use of additives has to be treated with a little bit of caution. It's just like Cummins not recommending any additives... except their own.

 

[rbattelle]

Gary - where do you get the Cummins stuff? Got a part number? I've never seen that on their website.



kry - I, too, paid close attention to the "Stanadyne interest"... didn't find their stuff mentioned anywhere, though.



-Ryan

 

[PAddington]

But did you all catch this statement?



"This presentation covers the interests of

è Robert Bosch GmbH

è Delphi Diesel Systems

è Denso Corporation

è SiemensVDO Automotive AG

è Stanadyne Automotive Corporation"



I use Stanadyne regularly, but a report with their name on it recommending the use of additives has to be treated with a little bit of caution. It's just like Cummins not recommending any additives... except their own.

Stanadyne also has an interest in this report as they make fuel systems.

 

[The Lockguy]

I know this may sound a little ignorant but, why couldn't you use a synthetic two cycle oil in diesel? It doesn't have alcohol, it's made to lube at very high ratios, it burns clean, and I have turned 14,000 RPMs in my dirt bikes and when they have been torn down, they still have minimal wear. I was just thinking, if it can lube under these kinds of conditions, why wouldn't it work for an injector pump? Let me know your thoughts.