2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Brake Shake!

[David411]

Hello. I am hoping you guys can help me out.

I have had this problem for just over a year and cannot find anything wrong at all. It is so frustrating.

When the temperature drops to below 28*F I get a fierce and I mean fierce shaking in my truck and steering wheel. #@$%!

It first becomes apparent when cruising on the highway, after about five minutes of 60mph I sense a vibration in the steering wheel. Then when brakes are applied the vibration explodes into a full out extreme shake. I have replaced brake rotors and brake pads and am about to flush the fluid and replace the calipers this weekend.

This is the oddest problem it only surfaces when the temperature drops. All spring and summer I didn't have this happen once.

Thank-You and I hope you guys an help me out.

 

[Joe Mc]

Sounds like the "Death Wobble"? Sorry, but thankful, I've never experienced it on my truck so I can't really speak to what's happening with yours. But, there are many many posts here on the death wobble on our trucks - although I've never heard of it only happening when it's cold? I'd check your track-bar and other front end components for slack. Good luck.

 

[David411]

Nope its not death wobble. Experienced that twice and definitely know what it is. Fixed that with the third gen trackbar conversion. Front end is tight. This truck is F^$%#G with me. I have spent hours searching for the cause only to come up with nothing.

 

[rkressg]

Could be moisture in the brake fluid. I think you might want to throughly flush the brake system with fresh fluid.

 

[Joe Mc]

Check the bearing pre-load on the hubs too.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Could it be as simple as having warm weather grease in your front end components?

When we lived in kansas my Dad always had the cars greased twice year for warm weather and cold weather. After moving to Florida he only had cold weather grease put in if we going North durning the winter months. (Usually hot weather grease will only make everything stiffer to move in cold weather).

 

[Dave M]

I had "death wobble" and the new SS adj track bar fixed it after shocks, control bushings, sway bar/end link bushings, steering gear replaced with 3 turn and bad tie rod. Then when I tapped the brakes it wobbled violently as you described. That fix was new rotors for me.



It definately sounds like a brake related problems and I personally would be looking hard at the cailpers. All good ideas supplied here already but (just a thought) also look at and replace the flexible brake hoses on the ends of the front brake lines right at the caliper. I have heard they can collapse internally and you may never see it visually on the outside. I'd replace them with stainless braided lines. Maybe someone can chime in with a source.



Another source of problems could be the hyroboost unit or the ABS system.



Good luck.

 

[David411]

I am thinking the hydroboost as well right now.

 

[David411]

Also. Just changed the calipers and flushed the brake fluid.
Now my truck pulls hard right for a second then evens out when the drivers side brake engages. Whats up?

 

[Dave M]

Also. Just changed the calipers and flushed the brake fluid.

Now my truck pulls hard right for a second then evens out when the drivers side brake engages. Whats up?

Maybe the flexible brake hose. It might take time to wear in the brakes and then they may even out.

 

[MAngelotti]

Any chance you changed your drums also? I have had new drums so untrue they made the truck shake violently.

 

[Extreme1]

Are the caliper pins lubed and free? Without the pads in the calipers and the pistons retracted, you should be able to slide the calipers back and forth on the pins. If you can't, disassemble them and lube them.

 

[David411]

Pins are perfect and slid effortlessly.

 

[SMorneau]

I had trouble with rear drums and you could see the tailgate hopping up and down in the rear view mirror; obviously the rear end and not reflected in the steering wheel.

I also had rotors turned off the truck on a lathe and the run out was high and caused some very weird things up front when the brakes were applied. I would check the lateral runout of the disk, make sure the front wheel bearings are OK.

If they are OK go for a drive and only use the brakes to come to one stop Immediately after stopping check your disks for temperature differences between both sides by poking your finger thru the wheel and touching the disk (be careful). If one is hotter than the other it was probably dragging and you at least have a side to concentrate your efforts on.

Replacing the brake hoses is pretty cheap and, as pointed out above, could be your problem.

Every instance of the death wobble I have read about seems to be squelched by applying the brakes not the opposite.

Good luck,
Scott

 

[Extreme1]

Are the calipers dragging? I doubt that they would be affected by air temp and, since the pins are free, it would be an internal caliper issue which has already been replaced. Or a bad hose which I've had happen on other vehicles.



Rotors and fluid are also new which pretty much covers the front brakes themselves.



How often do you use 4 wheel drive? How are the front driveshaft and axle u-joints? Has the front driveshaft ever been off? What if the CAD isn't releasing in the cold (moisture in the lines) and the front driveshaft is out of phase. That may explain a vibration on the highway but not necessarily a brake application making it worse.



Unless the shaft is phased OK but the CAD is not releasing and the front driveshaft shaft slip joint is wet (temp related) or rusted tight (not uncommon). That might get an ugly vibe going if you get enough weight transfer when braking.

 

[David411]

I had trouble with rear drums and you could see the tailgate hopping up and down in the rear view mirror; obviously the rear end and not reflected in the steering wheel.



I also had rotors turned off the truck on a lathe and the run out was high and caused some very weird things up front when the brakes were applied. I would check the lateral runout of the disk, make sure the front wheel bearings are OK.



If they are OK go for a drive and only use the brakes to come to one stop Immediately after stopping check your disks for temperature differences between both sides by poking your finger thru the wheel and touching the disk (be careful). If one is hotter than the other it was probably dragging and you at least have a side to concentrate your efforts on.



Replacing the brake hoses is pretty cheap and, as pointed out above, could be your problem.



Every instance of the death wobble I have read about seems to be squelched by applying the brakes not the opposite.



Good luck,

Scott

Yup even tried the laser temperature measurements on both wheels.

I just bought new brake lines, but have yet to install them.

I also ordered a CAD delete kit, the Perm-Lok that permanently engages the front two piece axle shaft. Will do the one piece axle shaft next summer from EMS.

I also have a locking hub conversion kit headed my way in the next month. Already have the warn locking hubs and studs in my garage, the 35 Spline axle shafts and spicer u joints I am ordering this Friday, and the spindle and hub kit I will order in 2 weeks.

 

[Matt42]

This is one of the oddest things I have ever heard of. I think that the fact that the temperature has to dip to 28F might be significant, because that will be the air temperature where you can be sure that water will freeze in all parts of the front end. I just can't think of what they might be.



I don't have answers, but I have some questions.

-Did the truck do this, even on a smaller scale, last winter?

-Did you do any work to the brakes or to the front end since the previous winter?

-Can you feel the pulsation in your foot like out of round drums or rotors?

-Have you had the rotors turned?

-Do you think hard spots on the rotors might be heating and cooling differentially and being different thicknesses until they warm up? (Hard spots can be caused by a hard summer stop on on thinned or China-made rotors where you then wait at a traffic light with brakes held in place, keeping that patch of rotor hot. )

-Does the problem go away after the brakes have warmed up?

-If you rest your foot lightly on the brakes, just enough to lightly apply them but not enough to really use them, do they warm up enough to make the problem go away?

-Have the brake pads worn to a point where the piston might be getting cocked in the bore?



I have had this problem to a much lesser degree with the rotors on our minivan. The problem happened after we had them resurfaced, and then after a very hot and hard stop in hot weather, where we had to sit at a long light in "Drive. " The pulsation--not as bad as yours--took place in cool weather (rarely gets to 28F here) but diminished as brakes warmed up, unless they got hot again. I completely cured it with UK-made EBC slotted rotors that are a very good cast iron.



I hope I have not wasted your time.

 

[dieselboy25]

David411,

I am having the same issue. Did you find a solution? I have already done new calipers and I getting ready to rebleed the whole system.

Eric

 

[tgee43]

FWIW, I had same problem, nasty vibration when braking, but at all temps, and only when hitting brakes hard. Found it was a fairly new rear drum with a high spot. I could see the wear pattern on the drum where the high spot was. Replaced it, and problem went away.

 

[LandShark]

I had a similar problem and spent a year trying different fixes. It took replacing the discs and hub bearing units to get the shaking to stop. One bearing was not quite perfect and I believe it was the culprit. Truck had about 200k on oem hubs, so maybe it was time anyway.