Brand New 2018 RAM Cummins found small copper pieces in oil.

[jaallen]

The pieces... they do not adhere to magnet.

 

[Wayne M.]

@jaallen A bit of metal flake in the pan is OK, but pieces that come out via the pan drain hole are never a good thing.

I wouldn’t be comfortable with any drained engine oil that had any flakes of any kind in the oil that I can see.

Non magnetic= non ferrous and that’s probably bearing material.

I lost track on how old your oil is now jaalen, but I would proceed as you are BUT cover your butt.
I would use the Mopar or Fleetguard LF16035 for a filter, decent oil that meets the CES rating for your truck (probably anything that’s on sale at Walmart) and go full bore with sampling- maybe twice in a oil change interval- maybe every 2500-3000 mi. Blackstone labs is fine, but I would invest in the little pump and tubes that draw the oil up through the dip tube into the bottle. They’re good to have and take the mess out of sampling.

 

[jgillott]

Hey Wayne, what did the casting sand look like that used to come out of the old 6.0L Navistar/Ford on the first couple of oil changes? I can't remember now exactly what it was like but I vaguely remember it being similar.

 

[Wayne M.]

I’ve popped a lot of cherries (first oil changes, I call em) on all kinds of engines including gas and diesel- light medium and heavy- and the only time I caught a foreign looking piece was on a PS 6.4 and it was a piece of tin about 1/16x1/8”. It wasn’t the first drop but I know the truck, and it’s running today without incident. Many have magnetic plugs as well- Perhaps a slight fuzz on that if anything.
I don’t ever recall catching casting sand or the like out of 6.0’s.

 

[jgillott]

I ran across it on a few 6.0's years ago, 2-3 of them. I remember it being more of a dull grey color though.

In any case, I'm wondering if it isn't a contaminate of some type.

 

[TFucili]

I remember on some Ducati twins there was a welch plug that would dislodge, and get clipped by rotating parts. The pieces looked just like nail clippings.

 

[ofelas]

Fond memories of bevel drive pins & plugs

Funny you brought those engines up - I found this in my high taxed tool drawer yesterday -

 

[Wayne M.]

Fond memories of bevel drive pins & plugs

Funny you brought those engines up - I found this in my high taxed tool drawer yesterday -

View attachment 110015

Ok. This sounds very desmodromic. Time for a walk ‘round the barn. I know little italian.

 

[TFucili]

One of my very early track days at Pocono. Before lightweight race bodywork, full Ohlins suspension, and Keith Code school.

 

[ofelas]

Good stuff! Reminds me of the era when Polen & Fogarty ruled supreme!

The only 3/4 ton twins I had were the older ones.

My nods to 'modernity' were an SP3, and a 916 later.

Still have the SP3...along with a '70s 750 & an ancient 1/4 ton single.

Heres the only 748 I own -

 

[Wayne M.]

Nice. They sound awesome- especially roaring around Manhattan. But what’s the tap for?

 

[RWherley]

I've done a lot with Cummins engines ISX, 6.7ISB, 5.9ISB, 6BT, and 8.3 C series. ive only see metal in the oil 2 times and it was big issues on both times, one was a 04, 5.9 that had tore its rear trust bearing off and drooped it into the pan which would let the whole crank come forward 3/16th of a inch when the clutch was pushed, the other was my 93 5.9, there the oil cooler nozzle for the #1 cylinder got clogged by a piece of oil filter media causing it to chew up the wrist pin bushing. the metal in your picture dose look like bearing material, if its a wrist pin or rod bearing it will start to make a knocking sound that will becoming louder with time, if its a main there more then likely wont be any sound it will just continue to wear until it spins on the crank or in the block, either way it wont be pretty

 

[jaallen]

Great. Dont care anymore. If it goes, it goes.

 

[Joe Mc]

Jaallen, We believe you and if I saw that in an engine oil pan I'd be concerned. You put down a big chunk of $$$$$$ for your truck your concern is with great merit and for sure warranted. Screw it, like you said "it's documented", now enjoy your new truck! L8r

 

[TFucili]

Since I already ruined the OP's thread, here is the "killer dowel pin" of mid to late 90s Ducatis. I misspoke before, calling it a welch plug, as it is threaded. They were aluminum and they would slowly back out into the roller bearing main which would machine it away until the last sliver let go leading to catastrophic loss of oil pressure. Later, they went to steel plugs. The fix was to Loctite and stake them, BUT you had to split the cases.

The other killer were desmo rocker arms that were not properly hard surfaced and would flake, then ruin the cams.

 

[ofelas]

It's to chase the sump screen filter mounting threads on the older bevel drive cases.

Nice. They sound awesome- especially roaring around Manhattan. But what’s the tap for?

 

[Newsa]

Posting my UOA's here. I did a few UOA's last fall because at the first UOA, it showed fuel dilution.

We took a trip this summer 8,155 miles from coast to coast and back again not towing anything. Tried the Dominator 20w 50 diesel oil from Amsoil. Not impressed so far.

I went with the 20w 50 in case I had additional fuel dilution. I doubt I have any leaks in the fuel system. Just a DPF that is regularly calling for active regens when driving around town.

I was surprised to see deterioration of my expensive Amsoil. We did drive through hot weather, but not towing anything. The engine temps were normal the whole way.
I thought the TBN in amsoil was supposed to be top notch. Not impressed.

The analyzer listed the wrong oil. The first three oil analyses used Kendall Super D -XA 15w 40.
The 4th UOA was 10 quarts of Amsoil Dominator and 2 qts of Redline 15w 40.

Like I said. I was surprised to see deterioration of oil. But I am pleased with the low metal numbers. With over 8000 miles on the oil, I expected higher metal numbers.
TBN is shot. So it is time to change the oil.

Truck is at the dealer getting some suspension work done. I will change the oil as soon as I get it back from the dealer. I plan to go with straight Redline 15w 40. I have 3 gallons in the shed.

Also, will change the full flow and bypass filters.

 

[AH64ID]

Posting my UOA's here. I did a few UOA's last fall because at the first UOA, it showed fuel dilution.

We took a trip this summer 8,155 miles from coast to coast and back again not towing anything. Tried the Dominator 20w 50 diesel oil from Amsoil. Not impressed so far.

I went with the 20w 50 in case I had additional fuel dilution. I doubt I have any leaks in the fuel system. Just a DPF that is regularly calling for active regens when driving around town.

I was surprised to see deterioration of my expensive Amsoil. We did drive through hot weather, but not towing anything. The engine temps were normal the whole way.
I thought the TBN in amsoil was supposed to be top notch. Not impressed.

The analyzer listed the wrong oil. The first three oil analyses used Kendall Super D -XA 15w 40.
The 4th UOA was 10 quarts of Amsoil Dominator and 2 qts of Redline 15w 40.

Like I said. I was surprised to see deterioration of oil. But I am pleased with the low metal numbers. With over 8000 miles on the oil, I expected higher metal numbers.
TBN is shot. So it is time to change the oil.

Truck is at the dealer getting some suspension work done. I will change the oil as soon as I get it back from the dealer. I plan to go with straight Redline 15w 40. I have 3 gallons in the shed.

Also, will change the full flow and bypass filters.

First off... TBN is not shot. The UOA report doesn't say shot, and it's approx 1/2 of new. That's getting towards the end of the oil life, but the TBN is not of major concern on this UOA. The TBN on UOA #1 was lower, yet not an issue there.

There are two things that stand out in that UOA thou, the LOW Zinc and the HIGH Oxidation.

Why are you mixing oils? This has likely caused many of the issues with the UOA, and all of your disappointments with the oil can't be validated since you mixed the oil. You essentially have 3 different oils in your crankcase, not great for oil longevity. I know that after I change oils it takes 1-2 OCI's to get the anomalies from the previous oil out of the crankcase and off the UOA... and that's with a single oil. Amsoil even states that while their oil is compatible with other oils it will shorten oil life and have adverse effects on it's performance.

Why did you tell them you changed the oil when you didn't?

You need to find out what's going on with those fuel dilutions thou! It's not from active regens or it would be consistent. In your 8K mile road trip you likely had 15-20 active regens.

 

[Newsa]

First off... TBN is not shot. The UOA report doesn't say shot, and it's approx 1/2 of new. That's getting towards the end of the oil life, but the TBN is not of major concern on this UOA. The TBN on UOA #1 was lower, yet not an issue there.

There are two things that stand out in that UOA thou, the LOW Zinc and the HIGH Oxidation.

Why are you mixing oils? This has likely caused many of the issues with the UOA, and all of your disappointments with the oil can't be validated since you mixed the oil. You essentially have 3 different oils in your crankcase, not great for oil longevity. I know that after I change oils it takes 1-2 OCI's to get the anomalies from the previous oil out of the crankcase and off the UOA... and that's with a single oil. Amsoil even states that while their oil is compatible with other oils it will shorten oil life and have adverse effects on it's performance.

Why did you tell them you changed the oil when you didn't?

You need to find out what's going on with those fuel dilutions thou! It's not from active regens or it would be consistent. In your 8K mile road trip you likely had 15-20 active regens.

John,

First of all thank you for your reply. Yes, i realize that Amsoil saya mixing oils can shorten oil life. But since Amsoil says their oil can be used for 30k-60k. I thought the Dominator would easily last 10k even when 2 qts of a different oil were added. I had run a sump full of amsoil dominator prior to this tested oil. As yiy can see, all of the Kendall Super D was likely washed out with that intermediate sump full of Dominator.

My question remains..... Is the oxidation or degradation of oil due to the fact that the oil was 20w 50 being pushed through orifices designed for 15w 40? Or was the degredation due to adding 2 qts of redline? I didn'y expect those results, and i wish amsoil had more ester based synthetic in it.

But i had 2 gallons and 2 qts of dominator so i put in what i had.

As for fuel dilutuon. My problem before was likely that the oil wasn't getting hot enough for long enough time to burn off any blow by from active regens. But on this summer trip, it did stay hot enough to evaporate the excess fuel left behind by active regens.

 

[Wiredawg]

John,

First of all thank you for your reply. Yes, i realize that Amsoil saya mixing oils can shorten oil life. But since Amsoil says their oil can be used for 30k-60k. I thought the Dominator would easily last 10k even when 2 qts of a different oil were added. I had run a sump full of amsoil dominator prior to this tested oil. As yiy can see, all of the Kendall Super D was likely washed out with that intermediate sump full of Dominator.

My question remains..... Is the oxidation or degradation of oil due to the fact that the oil was 20w 50 being pushed through orifices designed for 15w 40? Or was the degredation due to adding 2 qts of redline? I didn'y expect those results, and i wish amsoil had more ester based synthetic in it.

But i had 2 gallons and 2 qts of dominator so i put in what i had.

As for fuel dilutuon. My problem before was likely that the oil wasn't getting hot enough for long enough time to burn off any blow by from active regens. But on this summer trip, it did stay hot enough to evaporate the excess fuel left behind by active regens.

I can't say for sure if you're saying your normally not driving the truck enough for the truck to reach full operating temperature for the fluids and systems. I drive my 5500 ev every week anywhere from 30 to 130 miles to keep all the systems fully operational.

Maybe its excessive, but we end up taking some nice drives and now that I have an Edge CST2 I can see regens. I'm more or less creating a duty cycle to keep it running top form.

Oil analysis, I forgot to do it when I changed the oil the first time. C&Cs have a 13.5K mile oil change interval, but I'm changing at 10K miles. Got around 3K miles more to go, then will perform it.

I'll be watching this thread to see how the discussion goes.


Thanks for posting.

Happy trails, Ron