Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Bully Dog vs Diesel Dynamic Injectors

[RobbyRam]

1. What is the difference between Bully Dog injectors and Diesel Dynamic injectors?
2. Which, in your opinion is better?
3. Who on TDR has Bully Dog Step 2's(or any #) and how do you like them?
Thanks, Bob

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Bob in Sacramento, Y2K Black 3500 ISB 4x4 4:10 LSD,Auto,QC,SLT Laramie, Slightly BOMBED LB, Polished Stull Billet Grill & Fog inserts, Chrome Smitty-Built Step Rails, Mopar Chrome-Tipped Mud Flaps, A-Pillar mounted West-Tach Turbo/Pyro/Trans Temp gauges,Rancho 9000's set at '1',Diamond Plated Tool Box, OEM U. R. Bedliner + other stuff.
Fact:The First Fords' had 'DODGE' Engines! The new PSD's need them!

 

[drawson]

HeberRam can tell you... . Lots of smoke and 35 HP less... .

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Check out the thread on 370 Diamond B injectors in the 12 valve forum for some information about DD injectors.

 

[Bigsaint]

I have to disagree with the above replies that are negative towards the Bully Dog injectors. I read the post on HeberRam's dismay with the Bully Dog's and have to wonder if it's more of a ETH/VP44 issue rather a injector issue. Was not the issue on the topic the lack of boost, i. e, plenty of fuel was present as there was no shortage of black smoke. I also beleive that HerberRam stated that his max boost was around 32 psi (going from memory here, correct me if I'm wrong). I have the Bully Dog stage III injectors in my truck and the only other "power increase" I added at the time of the injector install was the HX40(in addition to the Edge EZ that was already in place). My boost is at 40 psi's right now at WOT. My felt power went from "mildly aggressive" to down right "snotty" and extremely responsive with the above additions. Surley, the HX40 can't take the credit for all that extra "felt" HP. I say felt as I have not had the rig on a dyno yet. I also remember reading a post from Adam (My6eatsV8s) stating that Nowel (Mr. Hvac to you and me) had tested a set of the B. D. stage III injectors on a ETH and observed a HP increase of 105 over stock injectors. I'm not trying to discredit DD for their injectors, they been around for a while and obviously know their stuff, but I don't think it's unreasonable that another company has done their research and provided another option to high HP injectors. I also remember reading that Bully Dog is using the same shop for their injectors that DD used, until DD started doing the work "inhouse". That being stated, I really like my B. Dog injectors, nice power increase on the ETH and little smoke unless I hammer it with low boost, I think anyone's injectors would do that. Okay, I have my Ram restraint system firmly in place, go ahead, let the "fur fly".

Scott W.

White 2001. 5 3500 ETH/DEE 4X4 Quad cab SLT,tow package and camper prep,Husky liners front and rear,DiPricol pyro,boost and oil temp gauges,Edge EZ,Psychotty air,Bully Dog stage III injectors,ATS 3 piece manifold,HX40 turbo,4" BD exhaust,4" BD E-brake,McLeod clutch,Mallory 4150 lift pump,Mag-Hytec rear,Mopar tonneau,Lund bug shield,PM tractor utility back up lights,Penda bed mat and blow by bottle is bye bye !!! I love the smell of diesel in the morning, it reminds me of... . VICTORY !!!
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[HeberRam]

Bigsaint... . I think you hit the nail on the head? I'm trying to determine if there is a relationship between large injectors, say stage 3's and the ETH/VP44? I'm not knocking anyone's injectors, all I'm trying to find out is why It didn't work for me! It appears, with the BD's 3's , I was getting a massive amount of fueling and unable to burn the fuel to generate max. power. Jeff at Bully Dog, was very nice and understanding, and offered to send me replacements. I will be switching back to stage 2's, to try to determine if the injector's are causing the problem on the ETH. On the ETH, in order to run stage 3's,(regardless of brand) the addition of a HX-40 turbo maybe required? Any help in this area would be appreciated.

 

[Bart Timothy]

Heber and I are both having boost problems, I believe. Neither of us are able to get above 31 or 32 lbs. I have dd3s. I'm making more power, although less than I should, and lots less smoke than Heber. His truck smoked like an 1860 locomotive at a dyno run last Thursday. Perhaps our boost problems are altitude related. The Ogden area is at 42 to 4500 ft, which is where we dynoed. If Bully Dog injectors are judged the same as their propane system there's just much better to be had else where.

 

[Bigsaint]

Herber... Not sure on that HX40 question. My stage III's went in when with the HX40, so I have no baseline with the bigger injectors and HX35. I wish I could find a local dyno to get some real numbers, all I have to go by is how the truck feels now in comparision to stock with the EZ alone. Like I stated above, sure "feels" like alot more then I would be getting with just the HX40. Maybe WIZ can jump in and some insight, he's running the same as myself, unless he has put on the "twins" already #ad
.

Scott W.

 

[My 6 Eats V8's Old File]

wiz made 358hp and 740ftlbs last week.
dd's 3,ez and hx40 with a 16 housing, highest egt he's seen was 1300 pre.

 

[kevin1]

Adam is correct we didn't have a baseline since the truck was already severely bombed but the horsepower is what Nowell and myself thought it would be hopefully my new injectors will show up soon also I am cooking up something new on the old work bench egt eliminator but its still in the development stage more info to come later

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2001. 5 ETH/DEE 4x4, DRW QC DD3's, EZ, HX40 machined out for more flow, Custom 4" exhaust turbo back staight pipe with 5" chrome tip in front of rear tires,spa's, mcleod clutch, fuel lines,mag hytech rear end cover,psycotty air system,relocated blow by bottle,Lucerix power heated mirrors,more to come

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

i got the dd2's, eth, stealth injectors and i saw 100hp gain on the dyno. i also have the ez and the only smoke i get is pre boost.

jim



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2001 eth, ez box, dd2's

 

[HeberRam]

Wiz and others, thanks for the imput. Wiz, as far as performance goes, do you get much turbo lag with the HX-40? And last question, do you know how much boost you are pushing with you're current set-up?

 

[kevin1]

yes I get a little bit but I will be taking care of that soon as for boost I have seen 40 psi but mostly I see 36 to 37 and no egt problems to speak of

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2001. 5 ETH/DEE 4x4, DRW QC DD3's, EZ, HX40 machined out for more flow, Custom 4" exhaust turbo back staight pipe with 5" chrome tip in front of rear tires,spa's, mcleod clutch, fuel lines,mag hytech rear end cover,psycotty air system,relocated blow by bottle,Lucerix power heated mirrors,more to come

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Bigsaint, although I have only recently done research projects with Lawrence at Diesel Dynamics, I have followed his progress for some time. As far as I have ever been able to find out, he has ALWAYS done his own extrude honing. He did not ever have another shop do it for him on injectors he sold.

Regarding boost and smoke, at the power levels being discussed on this thread, there should be plenty of boost available to burn essentially all the fuel at least most of the way. Huge clouds of smoke more likely indicate poor atomization of the fuel and/or a poor spray pattern. Extrude honing is not a generic or easily done technique.

If you are seeking 600 hp at the wheels on #2 diesel only, you may have to tolerate some smoke #ad
#ad
#ad
THAT smoke will not be the fault of the injectors. It will be a consequence of trying for lots of power in a little engine (way over the efficiency curve for the engine).

Previously I was doubtful whether extrude honing of injectors could be done reproducibly enough, give good power gains, and give the exactly required spray angles and atomization. I have since learned that indeed DD has mastered the technique. That was not a trivial pursuit, imho. Don't pick your heart surgeon at the unemployment office. I suggest that you be just as careful about picking your source for such a difficult and critical modification to your poor little Ram. #ad


[This message has been edited by Joseph Donnelly (edited 03-07-2001). ]

 

[Bigsaint]

Joe D. , I stand corrected. I was just relaying what I had read on the TDR in regards to the DD injectors Vs Bully Dog's. I was under the impression that DD did initally send out their injectors for the extruded honed process. As far as the Huge clouds of smoke more likely indicate poor atomization of the fuel and/or a poor spray pattern topic, I'd have to say that my Bully Dogs are probably correct then, as I have left my EZ on setting one since the install of the injectors and I don't have a smoke issue, unless I really step on the go pedal with low boost and I would think that any big injectors would smoke in that situation. Correct me if I'm wrong, still kinda new to this stuff. I also have the HX40 turbo, which, if anything, would give me a somewhat slower spool up, compared to the HX35. I have no doubt that DD has done their homework with the injectors, but c'mon, comparing diesel injectors to heart surgery. Is there only one good heart surgeon in the great USA. I doubt it. I find it hard to believe that DD has the lock on high HP injectors and I think that the Bully Dogs performance in my truck proves it. Not looking to start a pi$$ing match here, just offering my take on the topic.

Scott W.

 

[kevin1]

hey Joe do you know if these injectors are EDM'ed also or just extrude honed we sent off some pull tractor injectors to be edm'd so we are curious if lawrence may be able to do anything with the "Beyond mental injectors we run in the little Jonh Deere? also do you know how he (Lawrence) is comming on those supermental injectors I am putting in more wind so I will be looking for fuel shortly like next week

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2001. 5 ETH/DEE 4x4, DRW QC DD3's, EZ, HX40 machined out for more flow, Custom 4" exhaust turbo back staight pipe with 5" chrome tip in front of rear tires,spa's, mcleod clutch, fuel lines,mag hytech rear end cover,psycotty air system,relocated blow by bottle,Lucerix power heated mirrors,more to come

 

[mmeyn]

Can anything be done to stock injectors to modify them some? thought one of these shops could do some work on them to get more fuel or a better pattern out of them??

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2001 HO Cummins QC 4x4 Long bed, 6spd 3:55 limited slip, Isspro boost and post pyro, husky bedliner, western diesel AF,

 

[Powder Extreme]

Wiz, I'm running pretty much the exact same exhaust, only out of an HX35. Do you also get a really bad resonance at about 1800-1900 RPM? It's driving me nuts! I don't wanna change the exhaust, but I might have to.

Jerry

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I'd suggest you call Lawrence about injectors for your John Deere.

No doubt others could learn how to do injectors as well as DD. However, the question is who with the talent has the knowledge and desire? I'm not slamming another brand as I haven't tried any others. I am just giving some idea of how involved the process is, so folks don't think it is easy and any shop that is good at something else can pick up extrude honing easily or quickly. Even shops that do other kinds of extrude honing have a lot of homework to do, both theory and practice. Lawrence used up thousands of injectors, about 50,000 miles on his dyno, and man-years of time learning what he knows now. That's homework!

 

[Bigsaint]

I agree with everything you stated in your last reply, Joe D. , I was just relating my experience with the Bully Dog injectors. Now, if DD ever releases those supermental injectors for my ETH, it will be a "non-issue" as I will be switching sides and going DD all the way !!!

Scott W.

 

[BIG BOB]

Hi Guys, Just got back in town, been gone for a week, don't know how I got by without TDR!

Just a short comment about my Bully Dog stage III's. I don't have a base line prior to the installation, however the BDIII's on my lowly ETC dynoed at 288. 2 HP. If the stock ETC has 235 HP at flywheel and a loss of 20% to rear wheels (188 HP), that means I got 100 HP from the BDIII's. With my PE in the HOT #3, gave me 404. 8 HP.

I am very satified with my BDIII's. The thing I have noticed is that DD was the only game in town for injectors and got a premium price. Now that there is some competition they are giving a 20% discount to TDR members. Would that have happened if BD had not come along?

I had also heard that initially DD injectors were honed by a 3rd party. Again I admit I don't know for certain, just here say. Joe can you verify this for certain if this is true or not?

Sorry for the long post, but it is sure nice to be back!

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[This message has been edited by BIG BOB (edited 03-12-2001). ]