By-Pass Oil Filter Systems

[Gary - K7GLD]

Last analysis on my Frantz equipped '02 Silicon was at 8 ppm - 5000 miles on Delo 400 15/40 - lotsa towing...



I now have 10,000 miles on that same oil, will do another analysis at 15,000 - would do it sooner, but we're in the process of moving to Oregon from here in California, and won't have time to do an analysis sampling until after the move...

 

[amsoilman]

"yea silica is dirt. measured by oil analysis you like to see those numbers in the teens or below. "

It is true that silica is dirt, but when oils are analyzed, the lab reports it as "Silicon", which can also be an oil additive, or a leachate from silicone gaskets and sealants. Most all oils do have silicon in them when new to keep the oil from foaming.



In my case concerning silicon found in the used oil from my current truck, I installed the Amsoil 10W-40 oil and their By-Pass oil filtration at 8,500 miles. I took an oil sample after 18,200 miles (10,200 miles on oil) and the silicon was reported as 13 ppm.



On the next oil analysis with 29,500 miles on the engine (21,000 on the oil) the silicon was reported as 19ppm. So in roughly 10,000 miles the silicon level only went up 6 ppm.





Wayne

amsoilman

 

[DLeno]

yea, you're right of course. correlation of silicon levels with other wear indicators, along with a baseline history, will allow one to interpret silicon levels as silica. For example, I went from the factory panel filter to the AFE intake system. at 3,000 miles on the oil in each case, the factory panel resulted in substantially higher silicon and iron. The AFE resulted in a real drop in both of these.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

ACTUALLY, my above quote on Silicon on my last test was in error (another senior moment!)... Here's the full test report at 5000 miles on the Delo 15/40:



Aluminum = 1

Boron = 1

Chrome = 0

Copper = 4

Iron = 13 (THAT'S more LIKE it!)

Lead = 3

Magnesium = 8

Molybdenum = 2

Nickel - 0

Silicon = 3 (there's that nasty K&N air filter at work... )

Tin = 0

Zinc = 1354

Soot - 11

Oxidation = 9

Nitrogen = 0

Water = n

Antifreeze = n

Fuel = n

Viscosity = 16. 7

TBN = 12 (hell, that's better than new stuff outta the bottle!)

 

[amsoilman]

Gary,

I think I pointed this out to you before, but in case I didn't, the Viscosity number in your last analysis @ 16. 7 is on the low side of a 50 grade oil. 40 grade oils chould be between 12. 50 cSt and 16. 29 cSt @100c. I would check with your lab and ask them about it.

BTW, have you done the move yet?



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[GCecchetto]

If you want a "sandwich" type oil adapter for mounting a "Duel-By-pass" system, contact John Strenkowski E-mail:vssyn@rcn.com He goes by CPFF on the TDR sight, and he makes these.

I tried the email address above and it bounced back. Any other contact info?



Gino

 

[Pawpaw]

Gary,

I think I pointed this out to you before, but in case I didn't, the Viscosity number in your last analysis @ 16. 7 is on the low side of a 50 grade oil. 40 grade oils chould be between 12. 50 cSt and 16. 29 cSt @100c. I would check with your lab and ask them about it.

Doesn't Gary also add STP?



Bob

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

YUP - as the above poster commented - and CAT did also, I use STP in my oil, which accounts for the slightly higher viscosity - NO adverse affect on wear percentages...



Still in the moving process - just check in here as a breather from loading the trailer for Sunday's haul up to John Day Oregon area - then one more trip, and that's IT - except for the unloading and unpacking... (sigh!)

 

[DLeno]

wow, vacaville to john day. thats like two different countries. welcome to the northwest! -- you'll be only a couple of hours drive from me.

 

[Ralph Wood]

I just put a Cummins Fleetguard 750 bypass filter on an 8. 3 Cummins. That would be a good filter for a pickup if you could find room for it. It takes Fleetguards best bypass element which is a FL 750. Wix, Luber-Finer and a few others make the 750 element. They should go 30,000 miles between filter changes with a filter element that takes two rolls of Kleenex VIVA paper towels and three rolls of Scott toilet paper. The big elements are about 7 1. 2" by 15" long. The measurement at the lid clamp is 10" and the filter is about 20" long. Most of my experience is with heavy duty trucks but they might have a use on small diesel engines. With the special element they can filter very well at 1/10th micron. I gave up dirty oil and routine oil drains over 40 years ago.

I was reading about a heavy duty truck going 50,000 miles between oil changes using Amsoil with a bypass filter that isn't any better than the Fleetguard. It is a Como filter. I haven't heard of them for awhile. I'm curious about how long the oil could go in a diesel pickup with the same system or how long it could go with the submicronic element. The trucker didn't change the big filter between oil changes. The Fleetguard has more capacity. It would be a good test. If the filter was good enough he could just change it instead of the oil. To eliminate oil drains the big filter would probably need to be changed about every 15,000 miles or about 30,000 for a diesel pickup.



With oil analysis you could make adjustments.



Ralph

 

[barbwire]

I have put the Amsoil bypass on my 04 and useing the 5/30 heavy duty diesel oil. After 20000 miles on the oil, the oil samples have been acceptable. Which proves that it is working, I guess. However, the tech help at Amsoil tells me that they would not even recommend running the oil any longer than this, regardless if I have a duall remote system, or not. All in all, knowing what I know now, and seeing the small cost difference, and putting up with the noise of the thing, I would not put it on again. I would however have no problem with staying with Amsoil 5/30 oil. The only thing that the bypass system has saved me is time,(which is important). But using dino oil and changing more often without the use of a bypass system, might even be cheaper, after all is said and done. That is, if a person was to do it himself, like I do. I have 52,000 miles on the 04 already, which should tell you how much I use the rig.

 

[Ralph Wood]

I just put a Cummins Fleetguard 750 filter housing on a 8. 3 Cummins at work. I put a 1/16" orifice at the inlet and installed a kit to install a filter element that can filter well below one micron. The element is rated at 1/10th micron. The stock LF 750 A element is very good but I don't have any info on what the micron rating is on it.

I told the head engineer that we won't need to change the oil again but the filter will need to be changed about every 1000 hurs and 4 gallons of make up oil added. If I save these people enough money they give me a jacket and a little sign that says employee of the year. The hundred dollar savings bond isn't bad. The boss is big on lab analysis so I took a sample yesterday and sent it to Pennsoil-QuakerState.

The Detroit 8. 2 could go 500 hrs with a filter 1/3 the size. It got to the point after 10 years that I just changed the filter when the oil looked like the filter needed changed. I told the head dog that the filter would virtually stop the wear on the engine. He looked at me over his glasses like I was exaggerating. I wasn't.

I don't understand this dual remote stuff. I leave the full flow filter where it is. I find a good place to mount the submicronic bypass filter and run oil lines to it. That's how they did it long before I was born. With the big filter I might do it a little different since they are so big on oil analysis. I might just send a sample to the lab every 500 hrs and change the filter when the numbers start changing. I will play the game.

With oil analysis I don't want to hear acceptable or normal. When you pay extra for oil and proper filtration acceptagle isn't acceptable. The wear rate should be a lot less than normal and the oil should not be changed unless something drastic happens like a leaky head gasket.



Ralph

 

[GCecchetto]

All in all, knowing what I know now, and seeing the small cost difference, and putting up with the noise of the thing, I would not put it on again.

Barbwire;



Are you sure you don't have the hoses on the filter reversed? The local Amsoil guy says that's the only reason they should make noise.



Gino

 

[Johnstra]

Here's my last analysis. Amsoil 15w40 w/ 7400 miles on the oil and 23700 on the engine...



TBN 10. 9



ALUMINUM 1

CHROMIUM 0

IRON 10

COPPER 2

LEAD 2

TIN 0

MOLYBDENUM 1

NICKEL 0

MANGANESE 0

SILVER 1

TITANIUM 0

POTASSIUM 3

BORON 0

SILICON 4

SODIUM 2

CALCIUM 3617

MAGNESIUM 20

PHOSPHORUS 1021

ZINC 1077

BARIUM 0



SUS Viscosity @ 210ºF - 73. 1

Flashpoint ºF - 440

Fuel % - <0. 5

Antifreeze % - 0. 0

Water % - 0. 0

Insolubles % - TR

 

[barbwire]

Barbwire;



Are you sure you don't have the hoses on the filter reversed? The local Amsoil guy says that's the only reason they should make noise.



Gino

I guess that if I do, then there are a bunch of us that have done this on the 3rd gen trucks that have them reversed. Not to mention that the Amsoil rep that I was dealing with said that there was a concern with this matter on the 3rd gen trucks, and suggested that I turn up the radio to compensate . And there is a fellow( whom is a Amsoil rep himself) that had advertised on the TDR some time back for a 3rd gen truck, so that he could look to see if there was a place that he could design a mount on the eng. to eliminate this problem . As he did not have a 3rd gen truck himself to look at. I am sure that the problem of the noise stems from the growl from the bypass system follows the frame( where it is conected to) and travels into the cab. Also, if I did have the hoses reversed, would the filters be working ? Would I be able to go 20,000 miles and have good sample reports? I would be in favor of switching the hoses around if I thought that it would remedy the noise situation and still do the proper job. It would be going against the directions that I recieved with the system if I were to switch the hoses now. I think that I will try to mount the thing on rubber, so the viberation will be dampened.

 

[GCecchetto]

Barbwire;



No offense meant by my previous post. I just thought I would mention it. Does the Amsoil bypass filter keep your oil visibly clean?



Gino

 

[barbwire]

It is turning black as time goes on, as the soot is sub micron. The filters do not screen to that small a particle, thus it accumulates after time. I would not be concerned about sub micron particles flaoting around in the oil, but I am wondering if it is accumulating somewhere in the engine!?!?

 

[DLeno]

keeping the soot in suspension is what oil additives do. These oil formulations are designed to accomodate certain amounts of soot. The oil analysis labs test for this, and will alert you are approaching the capacity of the oil to keep soot in suspension. So no, it is not accumulating somewhere in the engine. it accumulates in the oil so you can dump it out at change time.

 

[amsoilman]

It is turning black as time goes on, as the soot is sub micron. The filters do not screen to that small a particle, thus it accumulates after time. I would not be concerned about sub micron particles flaoting around in the oil, but I am wondering if it is accumulating somewhere in the engine!?!?

Soot is very sub-micron in size, about 0. 25, so it is considered very small! As time on the oil accumulates, the soot will Agglomerate (attract to each particle) and become bigger in size. When the soot becomes somewhere between 1. 5-2. 0 micron in size, it will be removed by a good by-pass element.



If you ever see an oil analysis where the soot level is reported at 2. 5-3. 0 % volume, the oil should be changed.



My last oil analysis with 21,000 miles on the oil, the soot reported as 0. 1 %.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[DLeno]

excellent info Wayne. do you know of any work that correlates on onset of Agglomeration with soot level percent by volume?