By-Pass Oil Filter Systems

[LightmanE300]

OK guys, first of all, dont expect any system to effectively remove particles smaller than 1 micron, this is marketing nonsense.



Secondly, toilet paper bypass filters are a waste of time and money IMO, because you change the TP so often and add so much makeup oil, you're pretty much just doing a ton of mini oil changes.



Lastly and more importantly, I was the one who had the noise issues with the amsoil dual bypass unit. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with having your hoses backwards, thats preposterous. In my case it was because I was using the mount sold to me by TDR member CPFF - John Strenkowski (very nice guy). Plain and simple, the mount as he designed it, is attached to a very flimsy, weak part of the engine compartment that is thin enough to resonate the noise. The noise isn't from the bypass system, it's actually pulses from the oil pump. Typically in a stock setup since the filter is mounted directly to the block, this noise is cancelled out. The fact I had it mounted to a remote, flimsy area was amplifying the sound.



I know my posts before and the sound issues I was fighting scared a LOT of folks away from this system. Crappy advice from Amsoil didn't help. I called them in the middle of figuring all this out and got standard worthless answers from their tech help like - turn up your radio, or it's the oil pumps pulses, learn to live with it...



I HAVE ZERO, NONE, ABSOLUTELY NO NOISE now with the new mount. The key with these things is to mount to a VERY solid area of the frame or preferably the block. I got a mount from DTR member Supergewl, that bolts right into two holes that are predrilled and tapped from the factory on the side of the block. Doesn't get much easier than that... two bolts and two washers - now I have zero noise and clean oil. At 6,000 miles into this run of oil, it's still transparent on the dipstick, no shades of black. Granted as people have posted above, visual inspection of the oil is pretty worthless, you need to do an analysis. My first analysis with this setup was fantastic. Wear metals were nearly non existent at 7000 miles, and (although this is unrelated) my silicon was 6, which is quite low. Bottom line, don't let the noise issues scare you, they are all solved with proper mounting to a solid location, and making sure the hoses aren't touching/rubbing anything.

 

[DLeno]

Wear metals were nearly non existent at 7000 miles, and (although this is unrelated) my silicon was 6, which is quite low.

you mean silicon levels are unrelated to the bypass system? silicon and wear metals are definately (or can be) related!



Now for you guys that are seeing lower wear metals with the bypass -- is that because they are present but getting filtered, or because they are not produced in the first place?

 

[LightmanE300]

Doug, I know silicon and wear metal levels can be related. Usually they are mentioned together when someone has an intake leak or severely dirty airfilter, the high silicon levels will cause more wear and you'll see a spike in their readings. . When discussing silicon levels in a general sense though, most people accept that the conversation is usually about air filter performance.



To answer your question is to ask if a tree falls in the forest does it make a noise if nobody is there to hear it. :-laf



My take on it is, all engines create wear metals. As the amount of wear metals in the oil overall increases, wear increases due to friction. Since the bypass filters effectively trap so many more wear metals, there will be less wear over the same oil drain interval. Some choose to extend their interval and drain at the same concentration of wear metals they would have had at drain time before the bypass system.

 

[amsoilman]

excellent info Wayne. do you know of any work that correlates on onset of Agglomeration with soot level percent by volume?

DLeno

As a general rule of thumb, Soot levels <2% are considered "Normal", 3% Abnormal, and >4% is Excessive. All figures are given in percent Volume.



As a follow up of LightmanE300, ALL engines will generate wear "rates", and no two engines will wear at the exact same rate! Even in Identical Equipment!



When an engine is new, the wear rate will be much greater until all the parts break-in or "seating" occurs. Once this happens, the wear rate will stabilize, and remain so for the majority of its life. As the engine (or equipment) nears the end of its life, or a "break-down, the rate of wear will increase significantly.



Lastly, on the issue of "noise" when using an Amsoil "Duel-Remote" by-pass system, As far as the noise complaint, this happens sometimes depending on what the filter base is mounted to. The Cummins engine has a very robust oil pump and normally we don’t hear the vibrations from it because it is inside the engine. When we attach the lines to run the oil to the bypass system, those vibrations can now come up the lines and vibrate the filter mount, which in turn can resonate through the cab. This can be quickly and easily remedied by installing a piece of insulating material (such as rubber tubing) behind the mount, or in the case of LightmanE300, mount it to the engine!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[LightmanE300]

Wayne great reply. I only beg to differ on one point. You claim the noise can be remedied by a piece of rubber or insulation. I can't even tell you how many different thicknesses of rubber I used, layered the whole thing in dynamat etc. Nothing stopped the noise short of relocating.

 

[amsoilman]

Wayne great reply. I only beg to differ on one point. You claim the noise can be remedied by a piece of rubber or insulation. I can't even tell you how many different thicknesses of rubber I used, layered the whole thing in dynamat etc. Nothing stopped the noise short of relocating.

I do understand, as I have had some that same way, but have had others that were not quite so bad. This is the biggest reason I suggest going with the "Single" Remote By-pass Amsoil has to offer, as there are only about 6 quarts of oil going thru the hoses every 5-6 minutes! Filtering is just the same as the Duel-Remote. Some however want "both" filters to be at the same location, so they insist on the Duel-Remote, and this requires the two large hoses, as ALL the oil has to go to and from the mount at a FULL-FLOW rate, but I do warn them of this issue.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[amsoilman]

I have put the Amsoil bypass on my 04 and useing the 5/30 heavy duty diesel oil. After 20000 miles on the oil, the oil samples have been acceptable. Which proves that it is working, I guess. However, the tech help at Amsoil tells me that they would not even recommend running the oil any longer than this, regardless if I have a duall remote system, or not. All in all, knowing what I know now, and seeing the small cost difference, and putting up with the noise of the thing, I would not put it on again. I would however have no problem with staying with Amsoil 5/30 oil. The only thing that the bypass system has saved me is time,(which is important). But using dino oil and changing more often without the use of a bypass system, might even be cheaper, after all is said and done. That is, if a person was to do it himself, like I do. I have 52,000 miles on the 04 already, which should tell you how much I use the rig.

Barbwire,

Are you sure there was not a missunderstanding when you spoke to the Tech guy at Amsoil? Like did they know for sure you were doing regular oil analysis? I think there may be some misunderstandings here.



For what its worth, I have been to a dozen oil training seminars, some lasting 3 days, and I have never heard of them saying to remove the oil after only 20,000 miles, unless oil analysis was NOT being done! Now I am not saying YOU are wrong in what you say they said, but I just can't imagine them saying something like that, unless they missunderstood the fact you use a continued oil analysis program.



Looking through some of my training material, I have found this statement regarding extended oil drains in Diesels.



"First of all, bypass filtration in itself does not automatically extended the service life on the oil.

Analysis is required for extended use, and as long as this is done and the report reads good for continued use, the oil may be kept in the motor. Amsoil has truck engine records with hundreds of thousands of miles without an oil change.

AMSOIL recommends the SDF filters (there brand) in Diesel engine use should be changed at 7000 miles or six months, whichever comes first. The AMSOIL bypass filter elements should be changed every other time the full flow filter is changed. "



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[DLeno]

excellent info Wayne. do you know of any work that correlates on onset of Agglomeration with soot level percent by volume?

anything on this?

 

[amsoilman]

DLeno

As a general rule of thumb, Soot levels <2% are considered "Normal", 3% Abnormal, and >4% is Excessive. All figures are given in percent Volume.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[DLeno]

I guess I'm not expressing the question clearly -- I'm not asking about acceptable soot levels. I am asking how (or if) they relate to soot particle agglomeration.



Correlating the "onset of Agglomeration with soot level percent by volume" means I am asking how those two things are related, or if they are.

 

[barbwire]

Barbwire,

Are you sure there was not a missunderstanding when you spoke to the Tech guy at Amsoil? Like did they know for sure you were doing regular oil analysis? I think there may be some misunderstandings here.



For what its worth, I have been to a dozen oil training seminars, some lasting 3 days, and I have never heard of them saying to remove the oil after only 20,000 miles, unless oil analysis was NOT being done! Now I am not saying YOU are wrong in what you say they said, but I just can't imagine them saying something like that, unless they missunderstood the fact you use a continued oil analysis program.



Looking through some of my training material, I have found this statement regarding extended oil drains in Diesels.



"First of all, bypass filtration in itself does not automatically extended the service life on the oil.

Analysis is required for extended use, and as long as this is done and the report reads good for continued use, the oil may be kept in the motor. Amsoil has truck engine records with hundreds of thousands of miles without an oil change.

AMSOIL recommends the SDF filters (there brand) in Diesel engine use should be changed at 7000 miles or six months, whichever comes first. The AMSOIL bypass filter elements should be changed every other time the full flow filter is changed. "



Wayne

amsoilman

Wayne, I am quite certain of what was said by the tech help. However, I am also comfortable with not changing the oil as long as I get good lab results.

Lightman, You mentioned getting a mount from a (DTR) member, Supergewl. Do you mean (TDR) member? If so, I am surely interested in the eng. mounting bracket for the bypass system. Is the bracket something that he mass produces, or is it something he would be interested in showing a picture of, so a person can reproduce the thing?

 

[LightmanE300]

Wayne, I am quite certain of what was said by the tech help. However, I am also comfortable with not changing the oil as long as I get good lab results.

Lightman, You mentioned getting a mount from a (DTR) member, Supergewl. Do you mean (TDR) member? If so, I am surely interested in the eng. mounting bracket for the bypass system. Is the bracket something that he mass produces, or is it something he would be interested in showing a picture of, so a person can reproduce the thing?

I believe I meant DTR. He could be on both, I'm not really sure, most people seem to be. Sometimes I confuse the two =].



This is not something that's mass produced or for sale. He drafted up some dimensions of the mount and had a machine shop make it. I'm sure he could give you the dimensions. Nice guy.



I added a pic of my setup to my reader's rigs.

 

[GCecchetto]

Guys;



I was in the process of fabricating a bracket to mount the Amsoil dual remote filter in the location you see it in the picture in barbwire's reader rigs photos. Her are a couple of my observations. The 04 and later trucks have sound insulation on the underside of the hood and the filter will no loger fit in this location unless you are O. K. with your sound insulation getting destroyed by the filter gigging into it. Two (please, no offense barbwire) the mount barbwire is using will most certainly fatique and break right above the mounting point on the engine block. The filter assembly is heavy and there is way to much vibration from these motors to have the mount sticking up un-braced like that. My mount is bent out of seamless tube, mounts to the same holes on the block but spread out wider and then has two brace points that tie to the bolts that hold the plasic valve cover on. It's rock solid and will not fatigue from engine vibration. I thought about mass producing and selling them but there is way to much involved in makeing them. I would have to charge something like $250 by the time I got them powder coated. I can't see anyone forking out that much cash to mount a filter. My mount will get modified to hold a by-pass filter as soon as I can decide on which one to buy. I'll take some photos next time I'm at my buddies shop working on it.



Gino

 

[GCecchetto]

filter gigging into it.

Sorry, I my fingers meant to type "digging".



Gino

 

[barbwire]

Sorry, but I have no photo's in the readers rigs area. But I am interested in knowing who's you were looking in, so I could get an idea as to how he/she has the mounts. Please recheck, and let us know. Thanks

 

[LightmanE300]

Probably mine. I have an 04, and there is no under hood sound insulation. I have worried about the mount getting stressed, but it's pretty thick angle iron. Several folks are running this same mount without problems that I know of. I do keep a close eye on it.

 

[amsoilman]

Wayne, I am quite certain of what was said by the tech help. However, I am also comfortable with not changing the oil as long as I get good lab results.

No problem, I just thought I would ask.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[GCecchetto]

Sorry Barbwire it was LightmanE300. I guess the sound insulation started with the 04. 5



Gino

 

[GCecchetto]

Hey guys, how about some opinions on by-pass filters? I'm seriously thinking about the Oilguard, FS2500, and Motorguard. Come on guys, got to be some opinions out there.



Gino

 

[barbwire]

Sorry Barbwire it was LightmanE300. I guess the sound insulation started with the 04. 5



Gino

Not a problem, but I will admit that I was quite surprised while I was reading your earlier post. :-laf