Bypass EPA Mandated Limp Mode for emissions malfunctions

[Brett Maverick]

Will any of the tuners/downloaders bypass an emissions limp mode and SAFELY keep me on the road in one of these new trucks?

Emissions controls should NOT be allowed to cut fuel mileage and reduce reliability.
Maybe a class action lawsuit that forces the EPA to cover the cost of ALL emissions related trips to the dealership. If anyone is pulling a 15K 5th wheel up a tight 7% mountain grade in July, and the damn truck loses all it's power over a silly sensor reading that could be taken care of at a normally scheduled maintenance, really bad things could happen.
I'm ok with reasonable noise and pollution controls, but they shouldn't be allowed to make the truck undependable or inoperable.
These trucks would probably get 20% better fuel mileage if they were tuned for max efficiency, choking them down to cut emissions, then making them burn all that extra fuel doesn't make sense as the total emissions will go up with the extra fuel burned.
Will any of the tuners/downloaders defeat an emissions related limp mode and keep the truck on the road? I'd hate to have my truck and trailer stranded somewhere.

 

[Wayne M.]

"I'm ok with reasonable noise and pollution controls, but they shouldn't be allowed to make the truck undependable or inoperable. "

This has already been admitted to by the agencies. This is why first responding and fire equipment are or were exempt. I remember reading about a pumper derating and the fire won- lives were lost.

 

[sag2]

So the truck happens to de-rate for a reason that might damage a part that costs several thousand dollars. Are you going to pay for the part because you decided getting to where you were going was more important. As long as I don't have to pay for your decisions I'm OK with the customer being in charge. The times a problem makes the truck reduce power or de-rate are few and far between, so it should not be a big issue anyway. In most cases the truck will still move, albeit slower than you want to go. Trust me the manufacturer of any vehicle does not want you stranded anywhere and they have plenty of safeguards built in to avoid it.
Also keep in mind, some of the things they have to build in are a direct result of legislation forced on them. Vote the morons out of office that make some of the rules instead of taking it out on the guy who has to live by the rules.

 

[slingshot383]

The EPA is part of the Administration. The unelected government. So, just how do we throw those morons out?

 

[jhenderson]

You elect representatives that reign in the tyrants entrenched in the bureaucracy.

 

[Wayne M.]

You elect representatives that reign in the tyrants entrenched in the bureaucracy.

Agreed! Throw the bums out! Your chance is coming!

 

[Cummins12V98]

Brett fill in your signature, that will help with answers on here!

 

[Newsa]

These trucks would probably get 20% better fuel mileage if they were tuned for max efficiency, choking them down to cut emissions, then making them burn all that extra fuel doesn't make sense as the total emissions will go up with the extra fuel burned.
Will any of the tuners/downloaders defeat an emissions related limp mode and keep the truck on the road? I'd hate to have my truck and trailer stranded somewhere.

Do you have proof that retuning trucks will provide 20% better fuel mileage? I doubt that's true. There is some extra weight added by emissions equipment, but that doesn't affect hwy milage by 20%. It is true that if they were tuned for more torque, they would get more torque. But that might or might not improve fuel mileage.... might actually reduce fuel mileage. I doubt any adjustments would increase hwy milage 20% in a 6.7.

The pre-def trucks were less efficient until they were deleted. But this after treatment doesn't significantly affect the truck's tuning. They are pretty well tuned and the after-treatment actually helps the manufacturer achieve high torque and power.

I am glad that trucks are no longer emitting acid rain chemicals (sulfur and nitrogen oxides) that contribute to acid rain and deforesting when mixed with natural water vapor in the air (or precipitation).

I continue to camp and visit America's national and state forests and want my children to be able to do so.

Maybe I should suggest that you buy a VW? I'm glad that FCA isn't cheating on emissions like VW.

 

[jhenderson]

That you know of.

 

[Brett Maverick]

I have a 2013 Passat TDI and love it, it runs great and we've seen the fuel mileage indicator read as high as 52 MPG while on the highway at cruising speed. No interest in flashing its system.

Mileage improvement claims of 2-4 MPG are commonly reported by guys that have done the delete / retune route on their trucks.
Acid rain was a long time ago, and engines are very different today. Closed loop electronic fuel injection, as well as many other advancements.
I remember as a kid, my dad towed a 4000 Lb 12' trailer with a 4500 Lb 1/2 ton gas truck and got 10 MPG. Today I tow a 13K 5th wheel with a 7500 Lb diesel truck and get 10 MPG. What a huge improvement. With good fuel and good tuning (Yes the timing needs to be advanced and the exhaust line unrestricted) they can even do better.
To make power we burn fuel, any process of burning has exhaust. If we tune for maximum efficiency, we'll get the best value (In mileage and work performed) our of every fuel dollar.

If you were to calculate all the emissions of the industry required to fabricate, transport, maintain and repair the EPA mandated requirements on automobiles in general but particularly diesels, (DPF canisters, EGR systems, DEF systems and fluid, and all that extra fuel for down tuned engines and the DPF regens) ETC, I'd wager there's an appreciable net increase in overall emissions due to the support of these systems that have no value added for the customer. I've read where the trucking industry had to replace engines in entire classes of new trucks due to emissions complications, and fleets of new trucks simply taken out of service as they weren't dependable. Caterpillar simply stopped making truck engines as the requirements couldn't practically and dependably be met.
The waste created by these arbitrary emissions numbers should be a crime.
If the trucks didn't perform much better without the EGR and DPF systems, the guys wouldn't pay to delete them.
I like my time in the mountains with my kids also. A few of my buddies had trips canceled or interrupted by engine shutdowns related to check engine lights for DPF and DEF issues.

 

[Newsa]

Love my clean truck. Had one of these A-holes in an f250 pass me a few months back.

Doesn't seem all that efficient.

https://youtu.be/M6tVNsYsHe0

Acid rain is in the past now. But wouldn't be without regulation.

It makes (economic) sense to delete a 2012 or earlier. It would not be cost effective to delete a 2013 or later.

But I've heard you can do it now. The back pressure from the newer DPF's isn't that significant from what I hear.

I don't even see a fuel mileage increase by driving without the exhaust brake vs havinge
the exhaust brake on.

 

[Brett Maverick]

I'll agree that the guys that tune them to leave a cloud hanging at each start are just wasting fuel. Smoke means there is more fuel than can be efficiently burned in the amount of air present. I'd like to see an efficient twin turbo set up from the manufacturer, I think it would be more efficient and less fragile than the VG turbos, and tune for maximum efficiency from each gallon of #2.

 

[Newsa]

Yes. A two stage twin turbo setup would make the great Cummins even better

 

[jhenderson]

I don't intend to mod my new truck, but, you know the deck is stacked against you when your MaxCare extended warranty doesn't cover the DPF!

 

[RustyJC]

I don't intend to mod my new truck, but, you know the deck is stacked against you when your MaxCare extended warranty doesn't cover the DPF!

No, but the Federally-mandated emissions warranty should. The trucks have to remain in compliance for X years and/or Y miles. You should have a copy of this Federal emissions warranty in your warranty booklet. It replaced an ECM on my wife's 2000 Durango 5.9 years ago when the Durango had almost 80K miles on it. Of course, having a neighbor who is a Level IV Mopar tech helped - he got it replaced under warranty when I wasn't even aware that the warranty existed!

Rusty

 

[Newsa]

I don't intend to mod my new truck, but, you know the deck is stacked against you when your MaxCare extended warranty doesn't cover the DPF!

I didn't realize this. But I think the federal warrantee is 6 years /70k. But i'm not home and will check the warrantee book later.

 

[jhenderson]

70 is a long way from 100K. What do they know that I don't ?

 

[Newsa]

Well, my max care is 7 years/70k miles.

I may delete it if I have problems after that. Deleting it may reduce the need to keep replacing emissions parts

and may be the most cost effective route. Feds need to up the emissions warrantee to 12 years/150k if they want to save the environment.

 

[Newsa]

I think DVD is 5 years. But don't see it listed specifically in the fed emissions warrantee.

 

[dfb]

Only the EPA AND THE TRPA ARE ALLOWED TO POLLUTE.....