can my truck pull this 5'er ?

[damon]

Or maybe more appropriately, can it stop and pull this load safely ?



I am looking to upgrade the 5'er - going from a 23' Prowler light series with GVWR around 7000#, to a toy hauler. We have been looking around at the options, and in order to justify this move the wife wants a coach that is 36-37' with a slider. It seems that all of the coaches in this size are around 10,000# dry and a GVWR of 14-15,000#, some with dual and some triple axles.



My truck has the following #'s:



payload = 2240

trailer = 11,300

GVWR = 8800

GCWR = 18000

see sig for truck details



and weighs in at about 6900# with only me and a full tank of fuel.



According to the GCWR, I am not even close to being able to carry this load. But I know that many of the folks here on TDR are towing this and more with thier 2500.



So the question really becomes - what can I do to my nearly stock truck to allow me to safely carry this load ? Or am I chasing a dream and need to either look at lighter trailers or get a new truck. (The second option would go over like a lead balloon, especially since the Dodge salesman told me and my wife that this diesel would tow anything that we could buy !)



Thanks for any thoughts.



Damon

 

[RustyJC]

We tow a 13,500 GVWR 36' triple slide 5ver using a 2002 3500 that was specifically ordered to provide the highest GCWR available. Our numbers, loaded with full fuel tanks, driver, passenger, dogs, cargo, etc. per certified truck scale are as follow:



21,180 GCW (21,500 GCWR)

10,380 GVW (10,500 GVWR)



The toy hauler you're considering, if loaded to GVWR, is 1,500 lbs heavier than our 5ver. So, by the numbers, there's no way you'll stay anywhere within ratings with a 2500.



Will it tow it? Yes. Should you tow it? That has to be your decision. I wouldn't, but you'll likely have respondents here who will tell you that the ratings mean nothing, there's no legal (civil) liability, the Mighty Cummins will handle it, and so forth.



Good luck in your decision.



Rusty

 

[Dean Upson]

Damon,



14-15K is more than your truck was designed for although it would certainly pull it, I wouldn't do it myself. You cannot do anything to your truck to make it legal to tow that load. The gvw and gcvw of the truck will not change. The salesman will tell you any thing they can dream up to make a sale.



Dean

 

[Casey Balvert]

In my opinion, NO. It is not something I would to and feel comforatable about it. What is your family's safety worth. But that is just how I feel about overloading trucks over their manufacturer's ratings. Good luck.



Casey

 

[Dkevdog]

Originally posted by damon

So the question really becomes - what can I do to my nearly stock truck to allow me to safely carry this load ?

Get a larger truck. Whether or not "the TDR is full of other members pulling these loads" is irrelevant, and in my opinion foolish. You would need a minimum of a 3500 with a 4:10 to even be close, and a MDT or an F-450 would be better yet.



I think you already knew the answer to your question before you asked it . It's time to start looking at lighter rigs.



Kev

 

[damon]

this is what I expected. It sure is disturbing that when you go to shop for a TT, the salesperson always looks at the truck and without any sort of spec's in hand simply states "Sure you can pull this no problem at all. "



Now when I tell the wife that we are looking beyond capacity she looks at me like I'm nuts since all these salespeople said it would work fine. Of course, they are not the ones behind the wheel with thier family at stake.



Now just to go one step further, if I were to put a good aftermarket trans, exhaust brake, and rear air bags on my truck, what is the difference between my truck and a 3500, other than the sticker that states weight capacities ? just axles and springs ?



Not that I would risk my family by overloading, it just makes me wonder.



Thanks,



Damon

 

[Cobra]

Damon

I too agree with all the previous posts, but, you have a wonderful truck there, why not look for a lighter 5er that you current truck will handle properly. You will loose too much to trade now. Talk the bride into something that will work and keep your current ride for a few more years, then you can trade both truck and camper and upgrade without loosing your hide. Just my . 02

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by damon

Now just to go one step further, if I were to put a good aftermarket trans, exhaust brake, and rear air bags on my truck, what is the difference between my truck and a 3500, other than the sticker that states weight capacities ? just axles and springs ?

Damon,



That's exactly what I mean about it being your decision. As far as I'm concerned, although there might be technical merit to the additions you mention, it really is just mental justification for ignoring the manufacturer's ratings. The numbers are what the numbers are. You have to decide whether or not to exceed them.



If it helps, my wife had to have our current 5ver - it put us well over our previous 1996 3500 V-10/automatic's GCWR, so I had a choice to make. I replaced the truck. At a recent Houston RV show, we looked at a 39' triple slide Newmar Mountain Aire equipped with dual tandem axles and an 18,000 lb GVWR. Again, my wife had to have it. The salesman said he had one just like it and towed it with a Dodge/Cummins 3500 - no problem. I said, "Nope, not again" and walked away from this one.



JM2CW



Rusty

 

[Dean Upson]

Damon,



I traded in a perfectly good 98. 5 3500 QC 4wd on my new truck because of the difference in the GCVW and the better brakes on the '03's. I also had air bags and an e brake on it. It really hurt to trade that truck with only about 48K on the clock. Someone got a real good truck but I got peace of mind and a heck of a truck in the deal .



Beware of those rv salesmen as well, they are far worse than the truck salesmen. I have been lucky to have had good, honest folks to deal with but I have seen some beauts. Do your homework before you go looking. Good luck.



Dean

 

[damon]

I appreciate all of your input here, and yes, I really knew the answer beforehand but just wanted some experienced opinions.



It looks like we will have to settle for something a bit lighter on the 5'er. Probably about a 29' with single slider to keep GVWR at 10k# or less. Maybe with the lower cost I can justify the transmission and exhaust brake

 

[scotmartin]

Most Californians do not know that you must obtain an endorsement to their driver's licence to tow fifth wheel over 10,000 pounds. I have done this and it is a simple one time only test. Every time I tell someone this, they think I am full of..... well you know, until I show them the back of my license. It says "May tow fifth wheel recreational trailer between 10,000 and 15,000 pounds GVWR"



I had to take the class A non-commercial test, but I did not have to give a medical certification and there is no renewal for this endorsement. It is a one time only deal. I will be willing to bet that when you go to the DMV, they will not even know about it, but it is listed in the recreational vehicle manual.



The Dealer... not that other word..... where my parent's bought their trailer was not aware either. But I figured that the lawyer of someone I hit probably would be.



Scot

 

[klenger]

I'm not one to worry about being a few pounds over, but you're not even close with that setup. Also, the published numbers on the trailers do not include a lot of necessary items to make them work. Check out the web page at http://www.klenger.net/arctic-fox/weight/index.html for my experiences.



We find that our 27' 5er is plenty spacious for our needs. I can't imagine "camping" in a 35 footer.

 

[damon]

I agree that 35' is hardly necessary for comfortable camping. We started with the 23' Prowler when the kids were 4 and 1, and now that they are 11 and 8, and wanting to bring friends along it is just too small. The other intention was to be able to bring the dirt bikes along, which would be accomplished by the 10' garage in the back of the 35' toy hauler. Without the garage and extra weight of the fueling station, a 27-29' coach will probably do us well. But now it looks like I'm back to the plan of carrying the dirt bike on the back bumper in a class IV hitch.



BTW - Klenger, nice article on weight, thanks.

 

[Weatherly]

At the risk of getting flamed, I have that 35ft toyhauler (35ft Layton Rampage) , all 14k pounds of it and I do tow with a 97 2500 (3. 55, manual, BD Brake, and #6 plate) Had air bags and e-brake put on and yes it does stop safely. Am getting 19. 5 tires to fix overload problem. Down side top speed is 62 mph at about 3mpg with 1250 EGT. Towing at 55 mph get about 10mpg, then again I usually am in no hurry when camping. Trailer and hitch were installed by experienced RV dealer. Since I work out town I live in the this thing most of time and have made on long (~800 mile trip) with it.

 

[BillGotthelf]

If you put 19. 5 tires on your truck you had better consider changing rear gears to a 3. 73 or 4. 10. I towed a 13,000 lb 5ver with my 96 x cab 4x4 and it did haul it with no problems after I put in 5 grand worth of upgrades. Now I have a 03 dualie 4 door HO 6sp with ex brake. Now I'm within specs and 100% legal.

 

[jbone]

Damon, I think its time for that new 3500 HO you have been dreaming about..... I'm only pulling 10K (see sig) and upgraded from 2500 to 3500 last year..... R, J. B.

 

[boonsur]

I agree with the others. If you had an accident, you'd be in a world of hurt if the lawyers found out you were driving "un-safely", by consciously exceeding the ratings.



My old truck was a '99 QC/SB/SRW. Difference between the two trucks is "night-and-day" when towing. When pulling my sailboat (~6K) with a high center of gravity, the old one would get tugged around quite a bit (boat hobby-horsing). New truck simply won't stand for it. Puts its claws down and commands the boat to be still. You need a vehicle that will stay in charge.

 

[RMcCulloch]

Short answer: No

Originally posted by damon

Or maybe more appropriately, can it stop and pull this load safely ?



According to the GCWR, I am not even close to being able to carry this load. But I know that many of the folks here on TDR are towing this and more with thier 2500.

As you have stated, you'll be way outside your GCWR.



The '03s have higher GCWRs, in part, due to the increase in brake size.



Sure, people do haul heavy - heavier than many feel wise to haul.



Your theoretical rear suspension upgrades may help you haul more weight in the bed (presuming that you don't exceed your GAWR and break something) but won't help a bit on your towing capacity.



Check with your DMV and ask THEM if there's anything that you can do go raise your GCWR. :-{}



Don't be surprised when they tell you that the GCWR for any vehicle is specified by the manufacturer. :{



For that kind of weight, you really need one like mine.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Originally posted by scotmartin

Most Californians do not know that you must obtain an endorsement to their driver's licence to tow fifth wheel over 10,000 pounds. I have done this and it is a simple one time only test. Every time I tell someone this, they think I am full of..... well you know, until I show them the back of my license. It says "May tow fifth wheel recreational trailer between 10,000 and 15,000 pounds GVWR"



I had to take the class A non-commercial test, but I did not have to give a medical certification and there is no renewal for this endorsement. It is a one time only deal. I will be willing to bet that when you go to the DMV, they will not even know about it, but it is listed in the recreational vehicle manual.



The Dealer... not that other word..... where my parent's bought their trailer was not aware either. But I figured that the lawyer of someone I hit probably would be.



Scot

It's a Restriction 41 endorsement - I have it. Took the DMV personel about an hour to figure out what test to give me as they had no idea what I was talking about. It's a no brainer written test. Like he said - most people don't know it exists. Except maybe the CHP.....



Brian

 

[damon]

I think I solved both issues - I bought a 33' toybox that weighs 9100# dry but including all the options. This gives me a couple thousand pounds to load and still stay within GCWR, and if I'm running a few hundred pounds heavy I'm not going to worry too much about it.



Thanks for all of the input.



Damon