Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) caTCHER ecm (Marco's aka MAD)

[jrobinson2]

Darkhorse

How is it to drive in the snow without chains? touchy enough you would consider changing to the stock ECM for the winter if the wife was driving the truck sometimes?



Jared

 

[darkhorse]

Jared, the quick answer is NO. At one point I swaped the CaTCHER for the original ECM to get it scaned at the dealer for the version #. Man it felt like a dog after being CaTCHERized! One has to relearn how to roll on the throttle, but after that, sensitivity has been no problem for me.

 

[TORQUE THIS]

I also have no problem in the snow, and I am driving a 2wd 3500.



It is just like darkhorse said, it is learing how to use the go-pedal all over again.





FWIW... I had bad luck with the comp/catcher combo. I opted to get rid of the comp and go with the TST. The truck definetley has more power, and pulls much harder up top. I have not dynoed recently so I can't comment on HP. Even if I lost 50hp on the dyno, I wouldn't give the catcher up. Drivability on the street is totally awesome, the EZ, VA, just don't compare!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Knocking" dyno results because you know, or fear, they won't deliver the hoped for or claimed results is foolish!



As another stated, dynos are incapable of lying, unless readings are somehow manipulated - most commonly available inertia dynos (dynojets) merely indicate a given vehicles ability to accellerate a weighted drum thru a vehicles operating RPM - it delivers HP readings clear ACROSS a given operating rpm. and IF a given setup improves it's ability to accellerate better at some higher/lower RPM range, that WILL be indicated on the dyno's power curve (RPM vs HP) readout. There's no great mystery here, and dynos are great tuning tools that separate BS from reality - or that notorious seat-of-the-pants fantasy!



In my gasser hot-rodding days, it was common to mechanically alter the ramp on the carburetor accellerator cam to provide more fuel flow down lower on the accellerator pedal, and more rapid part-throttle accelleration - no actual increased HP ability in the engine - you were merely changing the RATE the fuel flow was applied by the accellerator pedal - and a dyno run would easily prove the real power the engine was capable of was totally unchanged! But it sure gave a nice kick in the pants under light throttle application - and the ILLUSION that there was more power available!



I suspect the Mad ECM does much the same - instead of a significant actual power increase, the RATE of supplied fuel is increased down lower in engine RPM, delivering a more satisfying kick in the pants that creates the somewhat deceiving illusion that LOTS more power is available than what might actually be displayed on an all-out accelleration dyno display.



That's MY theory, and I'm stuck with it - and watching for a few before/after dyno and drag strip slips myself...

 

[darkhorse]

Gary, you may be exactly right. I suspect the total power output with the CaTCHER is very similar to the EZ & other similar boxes. but the quicker spool up is no illusion. It's very helpful & noticeable in my daily driving. I should add that I find it easier to contol the smoke too. Now if you are at the strip holding the brakes while building boost before the lights go green, I don't think you'll see much difference. Comparing the CaTCHER to timing boxes is appropriate but wire tapping is a whole different ball game. In that case, one needs to compare the comp et. al. with the CaTCHER + a TST or Blue Chip, which is more expensive than a Comp alone.

 

[Bob Wagner]

well said Dan. we shall see what the dyno show's in 5 hrs.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Bob, will you be able to provide a reasonably before/after comparison so us boobs will have a decently realistic display of what the MAD is actually doing, rather than an interpolation of the MAD and various other engine mods?

 

[darkhorse]

Well..... Bob should be running his truck on the rollers right about now. He did say he would run it with the original ECM & with the CaTCHER but I doubt he'll be swapping out his Mach 2. 5's for stock sticks. We will all have to be patient & wait for his post.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

NAH - swapping out the ECM's should be enough... I would just have hated to see the dyno runs comparing the MAD ECM, as well as the injectors and a turbo upgrade done since the last dyno, and then try to decipher which mods were doing what to the dyno results. The injectors and any other mods MIGHT somewhat alter what the MAD delivers, but I wouldn't think it would be significant...

 

[Bob Wagner]

No, I did not swap out to stock injectors, it was hot enough swapping ecms on a hot engine. we ran lots of runs to get consistant numbers.



The CaTCHER gain on my truck over stock ecm is 66 HP that a little better than Opie's 50HP gain and a heck of alot better than the rumor of no gain :-laf



charts to be posted, but these numbers are fact, the tiedowns were never taken off and the runs were done within an hour give or take 20 minutes.



Now I am looking for larger injectors

 

[TORQUE THIS]

NICE Bob!!!!!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I think that was about what many suspected - gains similar to an EZ - but better low and mid range throttle response...



No real surprises.

 

[darkhorse]

Yes, that is about what I was expecting but perhaps a little better. Is it possible the gains go up proportionally with increase in injector size & injection event duration?

 

[Bob Wagner]

I think that was about what many suspected - gains similar to an EZ - but better low and mid range throttle response...



No real surprises.

Gary, the ******* point was stated at "no gain or less horspower" more to follow

 

[24V-DSL]

Bob... if the charts aren't coming soon, please post the torque.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Now hurry up and get one, Gary--you'll like it. "



Dunno, my Comp does a pretty good job on its own (see dyno numbers in sig up higher in this thread - 311 HP and 725 TQ), and provides full adjustability right from the driver's seat - and besides, it's paid for!



BUT, for a guy without mods, seems a decent way to go - especially if it avoids some of the winter snorts and jerks some owners get in lower temps,



"Is it possible the gains go up proportionally with increase in injector size & injection event duration?"



I would suggest that adds some percentage of additional power over a dead stock engine with a MAD ECM - but would be surprised if it was much over 10-15%

 

[Bob Wagner]

Bob... if the charts aren't coming soon, please post the torque.

Joe, Torque number was 698

 

[Marco]

First of all, thanks Bob!



Now that it's done and the results are in, my personal thought's about the dyno thing.



What do we know now that we did not know before? A number. A number that is absolutly not important for me. The power gain is similar to brand X box. ( Exactly like it was stated since the very begining. )



Anyway, do the box and the CaTCHER compare? Is it even possible to compare them? The numbers seem to say they're similar. I say NOT.



OK, someone sitting on the fence wanted "hard" numbers before he could decide. That in itself is understandable.



Gary - K7GLD, now that you HAVE the numbers you still do not want a CaTCHER? How's that????? No, don't answer, I don't care.



End of the story, who was scepticall still is, who already plays with the CaTCHER still likes it.



So why did we have to get onto the rollers?



I've said in the past and still do that the CaTCHER was and is designed for the AVERAGE road driven truck. NOT!!! for the extreme bombed trucks. In fact the claims about power loss, or no power gain with the CaTCHER came from those guys. Still several of those guys went and bought one... . (Is it so hard to understand that my target is average Joe?)



HUH, WHAT, you've got the wrong toy for your truck? I've told you so, now you're on your own... NOT! Not when you deal with Marco.



I went and worked on the SW in order to help these guys out. A different timing et voilà, the CaTCHER now gains power in those trucks too. Still we have to deal with people who seem to be blind and deaf. They don't understand ( want to? ) what's going on. They still keep the power loss story going. Oh well...



One thing you should keep in mind. I've worked with several people who got the original CaTCHER for their highly moded trucks and converted the SW into the "special" version. For free. Free to the customers, I have spend a lot of money for the shipping alone ...



I guess the bottom line is, buyer be aware, not every toy works for your truck. That still does not imply that the toy does not what it was designed to do... . K?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second part .



I've received several requests about a "Race" software.

Dyno/sled/drag... whatever comes to mind.



Can it be done? Up to an certain point yes.

What's involved? That's a good one! In the real world I'll have to deal with a truck that's already been build. Sticks, turbo(s), cam, intake, exhaust,box(es) whatever...

So I would need to do the " fine tuning" to get the very best outta that engine... . Hmmmmm



The fact is that we're talking about a very time consuming and expensive job. Let's say for a moment that I work on such a project. All is done, the customer pays what ever comes out at the end... Now to WHOM belongs that software? I mean it wouldn't be nice that the SW tailored for that guy is then used also for others... Even if it's used only as starting point.



Got my point?



That's why I've never worked much on race only stuff.



Marco

 

[Marco]

Sorry, it's me again...



In this thread there's been a speculation that even if the CaTCHER moves the truck faster, there's no power gain.



I don't remeber much of what I've learned @ school. But I remember the definition of work. Oh, yeah, also the definition of Horse Power. Oo.



One HP is the force needed to lift one kilogram-one meter-in one second.



If you lift the same weight in less time than you've provided more HP.

Pretty self explaining, isn't it?



Marco

 

[SConklin]

How do you guys think a Redline FMS with the regular Catcher would compare to a Drag Comp with the Comp-Catcher?



Skyler